Replacing all electronics, Maybe

[HeadedToTexas]

Our boat had legacy Standard Horizons chart plotters and we are among those who have been navigating by Navionics on an iPad. Navionics has no way to talk to our Simrad autopilot and several other limitations, but it works. Because the Navionics on an iPad approach works for us, my investigation into the electronics upgrade subject began with Garmin.

The experiences shared in this thread got me to look at the product lines from Simrad, Raymarine, and Furuno. While they may well be more "commercial grade" and definitely more expensive, the breadth and complexity of their product lines are at least as great as Garmin's product line. I get the difference between GPS, chartplotters, and multifunction devices, but that is just marketing and easy (for me) to overlook. I also understand that you almost always get what you pay for and that the cost difference may well translate to robustness of design and construction, but it may also indicate economy of scale.

Again, I am not a Garmin employee or advocate. The only Garmin product I own is 25 year old GPS III+ I used for backpacking back in the day. I suppose you can now add a subscription to Navionics to that short list, but it seems like everyone has that. Just some observations.

 

[rslifkin]

Cost also depends somewhat on feature set. The higher end gear from those brands tends to end up somewhat close in cost once you buy enough components (sometimes one component is cheaper but another is more expensive). But some of the brands also offer lower end equipment with less processing power, less features, etc. for less money.

 

[lwarden]

My boat came with circa 2014 Garmin electronics which the PO paid dearly for. They aren't old enough to warrant upgrading to, but there was no MFD on the upper helm, they used an iPad mirroring one of the MFD's via WiFi. I decided to add a 12" MFD up there and of course the newer units have higher resolution and better processors and can run the Navionics Vision Plus charts with relief shading. I was running the Navionics app on a Samsung Active tablet to get the higher resolution display, but it was kind of a pain.

I think I paid about $2,600 for the 12" MFD for the flybridge. Installation was easy, just plugged it into the Garmin network and everything worked, radar, autopilot, AIS, easy peasy. The Samsung tablet now runs a mirror of the new unit, so it has the high-definition relief shading which is a game changer for fishing. I know it's not the greatest gear, but it does play well and there isn't much fussing with it. I think for some folks who don't want to become part time marine electronics technicians the big brands have their place.

Now, if I were redoing all my electronics I would look strongly at different approach. Like converting the MFD's to daylight brightness displays and NUNC computer as suggested by Twisted tree and others. Has anyone used one of these sorts of screens to mount into a dashboard to take the place of a MFD?
https://www.xenarcdirect.com/1569GN...-mXQX4oI43zC_PeiJgGae6Iyixpr2Yc8aArnzEALw_wcB

 

[RickyD]

I have a Simrad suite 10 years old- works great.

FWIW- A patient of mine contracts all the marine navigation installations for the NYPD/NYFD boats for NYC area. He says they do all Garmin- least call backs, least tech calls and glitches.

You have to be a little careful with this angle. Remember government agencies must go out to bid with specifications and the cheapest meeting those specs generally wins. Ok I have gotten my more expensive equipment into government agencies by winning over those who submit the bid specs and have them spec something only I can provide. That is why I say generally.

 

[RickyD]

Those of us who have recently upgraded our electronics want to feel like we have made the right choices. Could I have spent less money on something else? Could I have gotten better equipment? Could I get better support? Did I truly get what I expected. I'll say I feel I got what I wanted. I definitely wanted better radar acquity than I had and I love my new radar. I wanted everything plug and play on NMEA2000, got it. I wanted good support. Well how would I know when I never have had to ask for support? Its only been 4 years. The one time I thought I may need support is when my 16" MFD went all black. It happened just as I was turning off the system. I hit something on my touch screen that turned off the backlight. Then, turning it back on, the light would blink and go off again. Crap. I kinda knew what I did but not sure how to fix it when I can't see it. Then I got some light from the side angle was able to discern the button images, barely. Got it turned on. Now I'm a little more careful. This should not be something I have to watch out for. This function should be a little deeper in the menus if you ask me. But like I said in the beginning, if you bought a new system from any of the big four, you love it, but would you love something else better???

 

[Daveo]

I’m in a similar position to the OP. Boat has a hodgepodge of 20 year old equipment. I ran it for a year around the PNW/British Columbia before looking to replace with an integrated multi-screen system from Simrad or Furuno. I had a plan in place in Oregon to go the simrad route because it fit better physically but my installer couldn’t perform due to labor, qualified labor, shortages. As an aside, they were Rodgers Marine in Portland and did great work replacing my old VHFs, new ground plane for the SSB, antennae replacements and new Pactor modem setup. I wish they were here. Long story boring, I couldn’t wait to leave so departed for Mexico running on iPads and laptops with Coastal Explorer driving my old simrad autopilots and a Vesper AIS, Furuno 64 mile radar, Furuno fish finder, etc. all networked via the aforementioned Nemo. Five years later and I am in New England. All those odds and sods got me here without much drama. Glad I waited to do the major upgrade. Knowing so much more now I will keep both my ancient autopilots and my ancient but fabulous Furuno radar. I will add an integrated suite, including a new digital radar so I can have those pretty screens and bury the laptop in a locker somewhere. I will always keep an iPad or two running Isailor for another opinion on where I am and who is nearby. But the point of my post is to say that the integrated suite will not be Garmin. A friend and shipmate of mine just bought a KK with all Garmin gear. High end, 3 big screens and a couple of smaller multifunction displays with their autopilot, radar etc. I’ve moved that boat only twice but had lots of time to dig into the manuals and try to figure out the logic. I’m not sure there is any. So many functions were buried deep under multiple menus. Just dimming all the screens at night was ridiculously difficult. Control logic wasn’t the same for each display. We aren’t dummies and have lots of experience with electronic navigation systems, aviation in addition to marine, but we were left scratching our heads wondering how it could be so awful. Rant over. I think there is great advice in this thread for anyone looking at a major upgrade.

 

[bumpkin]

Raymarine

As a neophyte, who doesn't understand much of the jargon flying around in this thread, I was very happy with Raymarine equipment and I can't say enough about how wonderful the company was to work with.

I called and they answered or called back to help with my problem, often it was my mistake with an upgrade. If they thought their equipment, new or old, was out of spec they asked me to send it in for inspection, repair or replace. They were recently sold, so not sure if that level of service will remain.

I also can't tell you if they have state of the art equipment as I have only used Raymarine equip. Adding radar and upgrading depth sounder led me to add network capacity which led me to etc. I think I have 24 mile radar but I seldom use it for that distance and frankly don't know why I would want to use a 24 mile scan.

 

[Barking Sands]

The one time I thought I may need support is when my 16" MFD went all black. It happened just as I was turning off the system. I hit something on my touch screen that turned off the backlight. Then, turning it back on, the light would blink and go off again.

Many systems it is the actual power button that will cycle screen brightness as a shortcut. On the Garmins you just short touch the power button and you will cycle through various brightness levels. Many have been caught by this one, myself included.

You likely did this when trying to shut down without a long press?

 

[PierreR]

I just re-read your original post, and think your instincts are good for a first step - and there is no reason you can't do this step-wise. Some of the best advice out there is to use a boat for a while before doing big projects. You already have more miles in your delivery than many have in a lifetime, which puts you at a real advantage.


You identified three things you'd like to replace short term; The autopilots, GPS, and depth sounder.


I'd suggest a Furuno NavPilot 700, and see if you can reuse whatever steering pump(s) you already have. That will save you some $$, and get you a modern AP with lots of interfacing options.


I strongly suggest a sat compass like a Furuno SCX20. You will need a GPS and heading sensor anyway for good AP performance, so just get the sat compass which covers both functions.


Then get an Airmar DT800 for depth, unless you are a fishing fanatic in which case get a Furuno FCV somethingorother.


Build a small N2K network to connect it all, and get a RosePoint Nemo interface too. Also build a small boat ethernet network with wifi, just like you would do in your house. Plug the Nemo into the ethernet network, and it can broadcast all the nav data onto your wifi. That will let your iPad get high quality ship's nav data rather than it's internal GPS, and with Nemo you can control which device's data goes onto wifi so you can be sure everyone is using the Sat compass, and not something else.


Also spend $400 to get a copy of Coastal Explorer and load it on a laptop. It will also be able to get all the nav data from Nemo over wifi. You will be able to play around with it, compare to the iPad, create routes, and direct the AP to follow those routes if you want. It's a low-cost way to see if the added capabilities of CE matter to you, or if Navionics on an iPad is sufficient.


Continue to use your existing radar.


Then use the boat for a season or two, and see what else you might want to do. If you fall in love with CE, you can then look at installing monitors and a NUC nav computer rather than using a laptop. If you use the radar a lot, then you could consider updating it. And you can add AIS at any time. It all seems like a really good starting point, and a good launch point for whatever else you might want to add. And it's all without any lock-in to a single vendor. Interfacing is 100% industry standards.

Revisiting this thread. This is currently the plan I am working towards.
The Furuno Navpilot 700C arrives tomorrow with a controller for both stations. I will have this, and a depth sounder for sure this year. I will once again have the boat in heated storage for the winter and will do much more next year. I am toying around with building a wrap around nav station on the upper helm out of quarter sawn Sapele Mahogany.
I am doing a bunch of stuff to the boat as far as upgrading and maintenance and will do a shakedown trip the the North Channel for 5 weeks and 1,500 miles.
I can now work on the boat much more. MY shoulder has been mostly rehabbed but I still can't crawl behind the engines because I now have a knee acting up. Right now, loosing about 35 lbs would probably do wonders.

Next year more projects and then a much longer cruise.