Best way to add AIS

[twistedtree]

Most likely I don't completely understand your problem. I already have black box AIS & GPS but needed a new VHF on my panel. (My backup VHF is a SH with bilt in GPS) The solution was an iCom 506-11...great sound, fog horn program, hailer, etc but no AIS!

Based on what I saw at METS, Icom has recently changed the product line and no longer offers all those combinations. The model where you can relocate the mic from the front to a remote location is only available with AIS and N2K. Now they only send AIS data over N2K, so I could just leave that disconnected. Actually, I would regardless because it's broken and messes up other products on the network. So that would be one way to do it.

 

[rslifkin]

I'm curious... What's the mounting design that drives the desire for a rear mic? Would it make more sense to just use one of the black box / command mic setups?

 

[twistedtree]

Would the Icom M506-31 do what you want? That is the rear-mic, NMEA 2000 (but no AIS) model variant. I despise dangling mic cords so have considered this option. IIRC the rear mic variant might reduce options for additional mics (since you are minus the front position), but I only want one mic so don't remember the exact details. Maybe that's why you ruled it out though.

Frosty

I'll check iCom again. What I saw at METS may be different from the offerings in the US.

 

[Frosty]

I'm curious... What's the mounting design that drives the desire for a rear mic? Would it make more sense to just use one of the black box / command mic setups?

For me it's just an annoyance with curly mic cords dangling (or needing to be constantly placed just-so to avoid it). My logical VHF spot is above a pilothouse window. So I'm looking at either the M506-31 (or to stay on topic it could be the rear-mic with AIS version -41), or the M400BB. Either way the non-curly mic cord just sneaks out the back and can be brought around behind the scenes to wherever you want the mic. It's quite a bit longer than a front mic cord.

With the M-506 rear mic you can use just the "normal" mic that comes with it (but via a the rear cord), or you can add a Command Mic. The 400BB is Command Mic only (black box so you need all the mic controls).

The 506 can have AIS built in or added later (almost on topic!); the 400 cannot. The 506 also has NMEA 2000 vs. the 400's 0183, and the 506 has a few more features such as repeating the last X number of seconds of a received call (might be handy).

 

[fractalphreak]

Hello E-gurus.


I'm getting ready soon to add AIS to our boat. I'd like to do transponder, so I can send and receive.


My current set up is two 9" Garmin 942xs MFDs next to each other at the upper helm. With GMR 18 radar. I installed them last year. I have I run the boat exclusively from the upper helm, there is a small stand alone chart plotter at the lower helm, but I'm not considering sending the signal down there. There is a 3 year old Icom VHF up there as well, which I'm not opposed to changing out (I'd likely move it to the lower helm) as it doesn't play nice with my Garmins for DSC. I'd likely move the Icom to the lower helm if I needed to get a new VHF.



I also have an easily accessible antenna mount on the side of my FB which I am no longer using.


I'd like to do this without paying an arm and a leg, and I'd install it myself.



What would you guys do?

If you can manage to install some antenna connectors and marine wiring, which it sounds like you do, I would absolutely do it yourself.

The transciever is a good idea. The cost is not that much higher, and its a good tool for others to see you. While not an end-all solution, it especially give the commercial vessels some insight into what you are up to.

IMO the standalone AIS is a good way to go; I've always been leery of AIS/VHF combined radios - I like the idea of more individualized components. I don't take advantage of DSC calls so the combo VHF is not something I care about.

I would use your existing antenna mount (assuming it will be far enough away from your other VHF antennas) and consider that there are AIS specific antennas available, tuned to the two (I think) frequencies that AIS uses, which are also in the range of a normal VHF antenna. I had an existing VHF antenna I re-purposed to a dedicated AIS antenna and it seems to be working fine; I seem to have good to excellent reception, and based on the spots I do/don't show up on MarineTraffic.com (and my distance from the receiving station) decent broadcast as well.

I have a digital yacht AiT2000 AIS transceiver. There is a newer version that has a slightly higher wattage for broadcast; the AiT2500. I chose that over the Garmin AIS simply because of the price, I'm sure it would have worked fine too. Since I was already adding the NEMO to interface my laptop, I had every reason to look at something N2K instead of staying tied to the Garmin network.

Regarding the multiplexer idea: I plugged everything I have, NMEA 0183, 2000, and a laptop on an ethernet into a Rose Point NEMO and it all just talked.... Garmin network via NMEA 2000, my ComNav autopilot via NMEA 0183, the VHF is also NMEA 0183, the AIS is NMEA 2000.... I can see my AIS targets on both of my chartplotting programs on the laptop and on my Garmins, I can run the autopilot from the laptop route course or the Garmin route course (whichever I have a course activated on). I can get the depth from the Garmin network but not the sounder or radar data onto the laptop.. I was very impressed with how easy it was to multiplex all these diverse systems with the NEMO, and also the ease of using their connectors.

I had two un-anticipated issues to deal with on on my install of the above: The antenna connection for the digital yacht AIS trancievers wants a BNC connector, and the antenna/cable I had did not have that connector so I had to source one and install it. Also, I have two Garmin chartplotters (older 4212, with the Garmin network. It turns out they had only ever been connected together with the Garmin network cable and not a N2K cable, so I had to add that to get the AIS on the second plotter (mine are one at the lower helm and one up on the flybridge.)

Other than the two cabling things above, very happy with the digital yacht AIS, it just worked from the start.

 

[Ftbinc]

Ive had the vesper unit for two years. Love it. Interface with chart plotter and/or iPad or computer based chartplotters. Both nmea 083 and 2k wireless access point easy install

This is what I will go with in the spring. Local electronic guys all say good things. Seems like a good solution as you can keep it simple or not.

https://www2.vespermarine.com/?gcli...mMsRXRPSQi5_-IOHSLCzMO412Nb9R1F8aAsNIEALw_wcB

 

[ranger58sb]

Related to this, AIS clash is posing a big problem for me in selecting VHFs for my boat.

The VHFs from ICom and Standard Horizon that support remote stations “command mics”, and/or that support a rear-connected mic vs front connected, all also include AIS receivers. So if I want mic flexibility, I am also stuck with an unwanted AIS receiver.

Now I could just ignore the AIS receiver, but you can’t. If you want Incoming DSC alerts to show up on your chart plotter, you also get AIS data too. No choice.

FWIW... and IIRC... our ICOM M605s have an option for AIS... not a mandatory inclusion. Command mic is another option.

-Chris

 

[twistedtree]

One of the arguments in favor of Class A is that transmit of you boat's position info is via a reserved time slot, so it always goes out. With Class B, all the devices are sharing leftover space, and people argue that your position reports can and will sometimes be lost. It's true, but statistically unlikely. The way the Class B devices gain access to the airwaves is the same way that the first several generations of ethernet worked. That got us the internet that we know today, so I'd say it worked pretty well, no?



Regardless, lots of people are all hot and bothered over the new Class B+ standard which utilizes the same guaranteed access method as Class A, thinking that their position reports will no longer get lost.


But it occurs to me that using a shared antenna between AIS and your VHF is a much, much, more likely cause of lost position reports. If your AIS reporting time comes up and you happen to be on the VHF at the time, the AIS report gets dumped. Every time you are talking, you are blocking your AIS reports, guaranteed, 100%.


I'll bet there are 100, if not 1000 lost AIS reports because of shared antennas, for every 1 Class B access failure.


So if you want to improve your AIS installation, start with separate antennas. And only then consider Class B+, or Class A.

 

[rslifkin]

So if you want to improve your AIS installation, start with separate antennas. And only then consider Class B+, or Class A.

Agreed. Particularly for faster boats or crowded waters, the advantages of SOTDMA (class B+ or A) are well worth it. Transmit frequency at higher boat speed is higher in addition to guaranteed time slots. Separate antenna is also key to making sure that AIS works as well as you'd expect it to.

 

[caltexflanc]

Exactly. Heading is not a factor and CMG is used by the computer for CPA.

I hope not. CMG is history of where you've been. Heading is where you are pointed.

 

[rslifkin]

I'd think CoG would be the most relevant here, right? As in, the direction you're actually moving. Not where you've been, not where you're facing, but where you're actually going.

 

[twistedtree]

I'd think CoG would be the most relevant here, right? As in, the direction you're actually moving. Not where you've been, not where you're facing, but where you're actually going.

COG is what's reported by AIS, among other things. HDT matters if you are working with so-called sea stabilized calculations (HTD + STW) vs ground stabilized (COG+SOG). In other words, are you calculating based on two boat's movements relative to the sea surface, or relative to sea bottom (ground). They will differ by set and drift. Historically the only thing ships knew was their HDT & STW, but with the advent of GPS, COG & SOG are far more prevalent. Erroneously intermixing the two has lead to some accidents.

 

[Olebird]

Re thinking this a bit. Rgano reminded me of the SH GX2200 VHF radio with integrated AIS receivers. Only $150 more than a stand alone AIS receiver. Displays AIS traffic on front panel touch screen. Touch the target and it initiates DSC call - no screwing around with MMSI numbers or names - impossible when rough. Radio also talks on N2K & 0183 to display AIS and DSC positions on Chart Plotters. This the only noncommercial VHF that post DSC call positions to a chart plotter. (that I am aware of)
I still plan not to add AIS xmit - but use VHF to establish direct contact with threat traffic - primarily river tows where things are really close!! Thanks Rich. Better solution for Starlites limited helm spaces.

 

[ranger58sb]

Radio also talks on N2K & 0183 to display AIS and DSC positions on Chart Plotters. This the only noncommercial VHF that post DSC call positions to a chart plotter. (that I am aware of)
I still plan not to add AIS xmit - but use VHF to establish direct contact with threat traffic - primarily river tows where things are really close!! Thanks Rich. Better solution for Starlites limited helm spaces.

Our VHFs would transmit DSC call positions to our plotter, if the two NMEA 0183 output wires from the radio were connected to the plotter. They're not, just now, only due to an installation glitch between me and the installer... and I just haven't gotten around to fixing that myself. ICOM M605 radios, Furuno NN3DMFD.

If you add receive only, that may help you...but you won't be offering much help to any of the traffic around you.

-Chris

 

[twistedtree]

Our VHFs would transmit DSC call positions to our plotter, if the two NMEA 0183 output wires from the radio were connected to the plotter. They're not, just now, only due to an installation glitch between me and the installer... and I just haven't gotten around to fixing that myself. ICOM M605 radios, Furuno NN3DMFD.



If you add receive only, that may help you...but you won't be offering much help to any of the traffic around you.



-Chris

Right, they all transmit the location of a received DSC distress call, and any modernish plotter will plot it. This is why it’s worth connecting those wires.

The part that doesn’t work except between select same-brand products, is the ability to click on an AIS target on your chart plotter, and have it initiate a DSC call via your VHF. That part is standardized in 0183, but not in N2K. Now some commercial oriented 0183 devices might both implement the standard, but I’m not aware of any.

 

[rgano]

If you add receive only, that may help you...but you won't be offering much help to any of the traffic around you.

-Chris

It helps those around you to the extent you recognize the collision hazard and communicate that and your plan to avoid it to the others around you.

You're welcome, Olebird.

 

[wkearney99]

Now I could just ignore the AIS receiver, but you can’t.

THIS. Oh... so... much...

There's a lot to be said for staying in-brand when trying to tie these things together. Even then there's no guarantees. And when you try to save money on the hardware you'll eventually pay that AND MORE in time and adapters/bridges/interfaces.

Slippery slope, indeed.

 

[Olebird]

True, but frankly the smaller rec boats are maneuverable and should be able to "see and avoid" in their own self interest. If everyone installs an AIS xmiter - target overload in busy areas will occur.

It's the big dudes - tankers, containers, and barges that I want to track and talk with. Meet'n and greet'n one of them big tows with the tug 500 yds behind the load - unexpectedly in a narrow channel - needs a mutually agreed upon plan! Just the prop wash from the bow thrusters, can ruin your whole day!

 

[rslifkin]

True, but frankly the smaller rec boats are maneuverable and should be able to "see and avoid" in their own self interest. If everyone installs an AIS xmiter - target overload in busy areas will occur.

It's the big dudes - tankers, containers, and barges that I want to track and talk with. Meet'n and greet'n one of them big tows with the tug 500 yds behind the load - unexpectedly in a narrow channel - needs a mutually agreed upon plan! Just the prop wash from the bow thrusters, can ruin your whole day!

It's still useful for the big guys to be able to see you. And the big one is that if you show up on AIS, they know your name. So if they want to give you a call and clarify your intentions or let you know what they're planning to do, it's much easier for them to do so.

 

[rgano]

It's still useful for the big guys to be able to see you. And the big one is that if you show up on AIS, they know your name. So if they want to give you a call and clarify your intentions or let you know what they're planning to do, it's much easier for them to do so.

I have done the TennTom with AIS rcv-only and with a transponder. I like transponders best, but on my 30-footer rcv-only will do just fine. Whether one vessel in the approaching situation can see the other on his plotter in a narrow waterway is immaterial once the voice comms are established because after that nobody is looking at AIS until after the situation is over. As the small guy, I was always the first to call when I had a transponder. The big guys while concerned for your safety know who is going to be MORE concerned.

 

[Olebird]

How many times have you ever heard or received a call - first - from a super tanker bearing down on you in a busy channel - ever??


Call them first with DSC activated and they have your info and likely you are showing up on their chart plotter - but the best thing - they have to shut off the alarm and radio acknowledges -AND - it's all in your radios log!!

 

[rgano]

How many times have you ever heard or received a call - first - from a super tanker bearing down on you in a busy channel - ever??


Call them first with DSC activated and they have your info and likely you are showing up on their chart plotter - but the best thing - they have to shut off the alarm and radio acknowledges -AND - it's in your radios log!!

I could not possibly count the hundreds of times I entered or exited ports around the world viewed from the bridge of a ship I was conning, but the experience crossing Tampa Bay on a busy shipping day in my speed-limited trawler well after my ship days gave me a different perspective. From the ship's bridge I was always certain the small craft could see me and would honor both the rule of gross tonnage and/or the rule about not interfering with vessels required to stay in the channel. From the trawler, with its limited speed, the ship looks menacing indeed without AIS or ARP to get a handle on its course and speed. With either of those marvels, AIS in the case mentioned, my concerns would be quickly allayed. Most times in a harbor with a good lock on the ship's CPA, I do not find it necessary to bother the busy officers on the ship with VHF comms, but in places like the TennTom, it is usually necessary.

 

[Cigatoo]

It's still useful for the big guys to be able to see you. And the big one is that if you show up on AIS, they know your name. So if they want to give you a call and clarify your intentions or let you know what they're planning to do, it's much easier for them to do so.

Absolutely the most important part of having AIS. I want instructions from them when in a confined channel. And I want them to know how to reach me. Especially in low visibility.

 

[ranger58sb]

If you add receive only, that may help you...but you won't be offering much help to any of the traffic around you.

It helps those around you to the extent you recognize the collision hazard and communicate that and your plan to avoid it to the others around you.

You're welcome, Olebird.

Yes, fair point.

But... all parties are responsible for collision avoidance... and "others around" can benefit (everyone) by having/using the same tools/info too.

I'm happy to receive a call from anyone nearby to negotiate cross/passing, etc. Good. It's not as easy for us to initiate that kind of call ourselves, though, when we can't see the name of a nearby vessel... (Ahoy, white boat, would you like a slow pass?)

-Chris

 

[Mghalpin]

Installed Vesper xb-8000 last summer. Displays the targets on my iPad wirelessly in both AquaMaps and Navionics (as well as its own app). No need to complicate the install by interfacing to existing proprietary MFD.

 

[wkearney99]

...No need to complicate the install by interfacing to existing proprietary MFD.

There's a lot to be said for having useful data shown on the places you're most often looking. If your chartplotter supports an external AIS source it's probably worth at least investigating what it'd take to make it happen. Nearly any MFD made in the past decade is going to support it. That and in rough conditions it's important to make sure you have the data you need remain working AND usable. Touch screens and spring clamp mounts for tablets aren't always as secure as an MFD screwed into the helm.