Average costs of land living to boat living

[Don L]

The Bureau of Labor Statistics says the average retired 65 year old spends $4345/mo and that 75% are on 4 things. My avg for the last 7 years comes out to $4,181 so I wonder how their land number and my boat numbers for 2 people compare.

Housing - 36%. When I add up our boat maintenance costs, marina, electric and insurance I get that it is 30.5% of my total spend.

Transportation - 13.7%. Our land transportation and travel costs work out to 9.4% of my total. If I add boat fuel in it becomes 11.9%

Medical - 13.5% (shocking isn't it). Our out of pocket costs come out to 3.8%. But if I do the true cost including the subsidy we get that cost would be 37%.

Food - 12%. I don't have just a food cost tracking, but I can make a good guess based on our general expense category, which is 26% of our total. I feel our food costs to be around 22%.

Just for thought.

 

[sunchaser]

Well Don one can always dream about how rational money wise a boat purchase is but throw in the comparison between an appreciating asset (house) vs a depreciating asset (boat) and the ROI changes quickly.

All boat owners I know own boats to have fun, be challenged, and revel in personal enjoyment. Never have I heard that boating is financially smart except from brokers, manufacturers, trades people, marina owners and dreamers.

 

[Don L]

What did anything I wrote have to do with ROI????? (content removed as it was in violation of TF Rules)

 

[sunchaser]

What did anything I wrote have to do with ROI????? (content removed as it was in violation of TF Rules)

Sorry Don for injecting business decisions into boat money matters.

For the record and in our case only:
— Boat insurance costs twice as much as home insurance with boat value 1/6th of home value
— Moorage costs twice as much as home property tax
— Rattle snake removal and pest control at our dirt home is cheaper than divers and haul outs to remove barnacle growth

But, I sure enjoy spending money on boats more than buying and maintaining something silly like a Ferrari or Aston Martin.

 

[STB]

Well Don one can always dream about how rational money wise a boat purchase is but throw in the comparison between an appreciating asset (house) vs a depreciating asset (boat) and the ROI changes quickly.

All boat owners I know own boats to have fun, be challenged, and revel in personal enjoyment. Never have I heard that boating is financially smart except from brokers, manufacturers, trades people, marina owners and dreamers.

I know liveaboards in areas with above average to super high housing costs that couldn't afford to buy a house in the area no matter what. Their boats, mostly non-functional as boats, function as condos on the water and compare very favorably to rent in the area. They pay less, and prefer it.

I also know plenty of anchor-out sailboaters without out working rigging and minimal to non-working engines that live amazingly cost effectively

Not everyone is comparing to owning a house, or can.

 

[DBG8492]

Never have I heard that boating is financially smart except from brokers, manufacturers, trades people, marina owners and dreamers.

THIS x 10000

If you're a liveaboard and doing it because you believe it will be cheaper than a house in the long run, or that you're going to make money when you sell your boat - You're probably NGMI.

It's funny - that's the first thing most people ask about when we say we live on a boat - "Is it cheaper than living in a house?" And our answer is always the same: "We have no idea. We make enough money to live, do upkeep and some upgrades, move when we want to move, and save a little to have an emergency buffer. We don't track the costs at all."

We do it because it's our chosen way of life - no matter the costs. We love this life and would give up nearly anything to stay on the water.

And yes, I realize that for many people, that sounds downright insane - but to us, it's no different than people who feel the same way about their house and land.

And for those who claim that houses are appreciating assets, this is not always the case. I give you the massive crash that happened around 2008. The house I owned at the time lost 50% of its value in the course of about six months; and due to the circumstances I was in at the time, I was unable to recover that loss and ended up having to short-sell the property a few years later. It's happened before, it can happen again.

Like everything else in life, you roll the dice and take your chances. I would just rather take mine on a boat...

 

[kthoennes]

And in this crazy economy, for the moment at least, the boat is an appreciating asset, which is normally absurd.

 

[Don L]

I money I got when I sold the house and put into the market has made way more than that house was going to appreciate in my life use time.

But that is just more thread drift.

 

[SteveK]

We just painted our land house. In the New Year we are painting the boat bottom and polishing the FG for about the same $$$$. I guess it is the same then.

So far this year we have lived on the boat for 83 days, nearly 3 months and expect an even 100 by year ends. We do this because we love it but do not want it full time. It is our condo on the water, an escape from the city. Neither of us are planning full time liveaboard though. There are plane rides ahead.

Looking at our overall expenses I can see living aboard could cost less.

 

[Muirgen Afloat]

After living on a boat a little over two years we are starting to figure out the expense thing. We are tracking it. The first couple of years we were outfitting the boat we bought to make it into the boat we wanted it to be so we could live on the "hook", so we had a lot of expenses that others probably wouldn't have normally had ie: watermaker, lithium, solar etc.

We've finally started our journey and are currently in Mexico, since then our expenses have gone down some (no more Amazon (boo-hoo). We are in a marina currently until the end of the month. So we still have that expense. After this month we will be on the hook for the most part, so no more marina expense.

We have met a lot of different liveaboards. Some live on boats because it's cheaper than rent in their city, some live on boats because they love it, and some because it just works for them.

I think for us as time goes on it might actually be a little cheaper to live on a boat or at least the same with more enjoyment. For me, it's worth every penny because I love it. In a few years, we will probably do a break down on the costs as things settle and we figure out what the costs our of living on the hook more. I'd say living my dreams is priceless though.

 

[tiltrider1]

It is very difficult to compare the cost of living on a boat to that of living on land.

There are people who live in vans and shower at health clubs. You can not live as cheap as that on a boat.

One thing that has always been constant. Rent for a 50’ slip has always been the equivalent of rent for a one bedroom apartment. Since you still need to own and maintain a boat, it’s not possible for boat living to cost less.

There are ways to make it cost less, like living on a 30’ sailboat with no facilities and using shore side facilities provided by the marina. Still not as cheap as the living in a van on land.

Now, there are other factors that could make it more pleasant or even cheaper based on personal requirements. If living next to the water is a personal requirement, then I see no cheaper way to live next to the water than living on a boat.

If you know you are going to own a boat regardless of where you will be living. Then living on a boat would be cheaper than living on land and owning a boat as well.

I have often taken the position that my lifestyle works cheaper living on a boat than it would living on land. It’s due to a combination of location and the fact that I was always going to own a boat. However, my expenses run absurdly higher than the national statistic sighted here.

 

[Simi 60]

Well Don one can always dream about how rational money wise a boat purchase is but throw in the comparison between an appreciating asset (house) vs a depreciating asset (boat) and the ROI changes quickly. .

Only changes quickly if the house is owned
If it's rented, then there is (lost) opportunity cost to take into account.

As an example.....
Caught up with a mate yesterday who lives in the same area we are at the moment
He is paying $800/week for a tired 2 bedroom unit with the same view we enjoy
Plus electricity, car, eating out several times a week and general keeping up with the Joneses has him working 40+ hours a week and spending more than double what we do.

Using the same income as above that's about $40,000 a year extra we have cruising full time vs his land based existence as we pay no rent, no electricity, no car, no keeping up with the Joneses and very little eating out.

$40,000 a year extra we could invest into more income.

All boat owners I know own boats to have fun, be challenged, and revel in personal enjoyment. Never have I heard that boating is financially smart except from brokers, manufacturers, trades people, marina owners and dreamers

.
Boats as toys cost
Boats as a waterfront residence used full time in lieu of land based abodes don't necessarily have to.

Our unencumbered dirt house is rented out
Rent alone more than covers costs of our cruising, maintenance, lifestyle choices

.

One thing that has always been constant. Rent for a 50’ slip has always been the equivalent of rent for a one bedroom apartment. Since you still need to own and maintain a boat, it’s not possible for boat living to cost less.
.
.

Sure it is.
Buy a boat that you can actually live on in comfort without needing marina support.
Profit.

 

[FWT]

Spending by cost category is an interesting topic.

One category not often mentioned in news articles is one that drives me mad. My cost of connectivity has gone through the roof over the years.

A new iPhone will run you $1000 to $1500, which is nuts. You can set up a good desktop PC system for that. TV's and DVD players are now super cheap, but connecting them to the world is out of control. Internet connection, then a list of subscriptions to satisfy my movie-loving wife and it adds up fast.

Add phone / internet / TV connectivity together and I bet it approaches my grocery bill. Part of that is a function of 2 dirt homes that need 2 sets of subscriptions on some stuff. I'm about to cull that stuff down pretty hard.

Its the small things that you don't focus on that eat me up. Last night I went to dinner with some friends, to a basic local decent spot, where the typical entre was probably $25. When my bill arrived the drinks cost equaled the food cost, and I didn't hit the drinks too hard. That didn't use to be the case not that long ago.

 

[SteveK]

@Simi and @Muirgen

At what point do you separate living aboard in one place, or even an area compared to the nomad life you now enjoy. There has to be part of the cost no longer associated with a land dwelling and compared more to the travelling costs to visit other places one would incur.

 

[Simi 60]

Spending by cost category is an interesting topic.

One category not often mentioned in news articles is one that drives me mad. My cost of connectivity has gone through the roof over the years.

A new iPhone will run you $1000 to $1500, which is nuts.

What's nuts is this thinking that you need a new iPhone

Mobiles at the local grocery store for as little as $19
https://www.coles.com.au/product/optus-x-lite-4g-1-each-3910840

One with a 6.5 inch screen for $99
My partner bought this one last month
Great phone for the coin

https://www.coles.com.au/product/te...aoKQj1augKBxvR4BgYfmx4UKIt1oG88ULYLUyqGQxSH-I

You can set up a good desktop PC system for that

You can set up a good desktop PC for $200

.

TV's and DVD players are now super cheap, but connecting them to the world is out of control. Internet connection,

Currently on 100gb of 4g 5g data for $30/mth

then a list of subscriptions to satisfy my movie-loving wife and it adds up fast

.
Yaarrggh
There be ways around these subscriptions me hearties.

Add phone / internet / TV connectivity together and I bet it approaches my grocery bill.

$30/MTH for us
Groceries are considerably more

Part of that is a function of 2 dirt homes that need 2 sets of subscriptions on some stuff. I'm about to cull that stuff down pretty hard.

2 dirt homes?
And a boat?
#1st world problems

Its the small things that you don't focus on that eat me up. Last night I went to dinner with some friends, to a basic local decent spot, where the typical entre was probably $25. When my bill arrived the drinks cost equaled the food cost, and I didn't hit the drinks too hard. That didn't use to be the case not that long ago

.
Again, a first world problem that can easily be overcome by using your kitchen for its intended purpose.

 

[High Wire]

What’s a budget?

 

[Don L]

My cell phone is a 4 year $190 one. Used to use it for unlimited data and like 50GB hotspot for $90/mo. Now have Starlink at $150/mo and a cell plan that is $120/year

Both those are less than the cable/internet package I last had had 7 years on land.

 

[tiltrider1]

Sure it is.
Buy a boat that you can actually live on in comfort without needing marina support.
Profit.

I place you in the same category as those who live in RV's and Boondock. They are doing it cheaper, mostly due to their operating costs being less. While I grant you have a better lifestyle, land based will still be cheaper.

 

[Simi 60]

I place you in the same category as those who live in RV's and Boondock. They are doing it cheaper, mostly due to their operating costs being less. While I grant you have a better lifestyle, land based will still be cheaper.

I have read this several times and it still makes no sense.

 

[DBG8492]

I'd say living my dreams is priceless though.

For you and me both brother!

 

[SteveK]

I have read this several times and it still makes no sense.

boondock? sounds like the outback to me. "Go where man has not gone before"
live off the grid.

 

[SteveK]

For you and me both brother!

get ready, When Mrs reads it are you in for it, quick can you edit to sister

 

[Simi 60]

boondock? sounds like the outback to me. "Go where man has not gone before"
live off the grid.

I can drop anchor in the most populated areas in the land or the most remote if so inclined.
Cost of anchoring is Zero regardless of location.

Originally Posted by tiltrider1 View Post
I place you in the same category as those who live in RV's and Boondock. They are doing it cheaper, mostly due to their operating costs being less. While I grant you have a better lifestyle, land based will still be cheaper

How can land based be cheaper than Zero?

 

[ksanders]

I have been living full time for several years.

I live in nice marinas in Mexico and pay for a slip when I'm cruising.

Besides slip rent, living on a boat is not all that much different than a house.

Stuff breaks, and you fix it.

Houses and boats require maintenance and upgrading.

My marina rent is arounbd $1K a month but I do not pay property tax, or water, or sewer so it all works out roughly equal.

 

[tiltrider1]

I can drop anchor in the most populated areas in the land or the most remote if so inclined.
Cost of anchoring is Zero regardless of location.



How can land based be cheaper than Zero?

Boondocking is RV living off the grid. You can choose to be downtown or out in the wilderness. Like dropping anchor there is no rent. RV operation is cheaper than Marine operation. Thus land living is cheaper.

 

[Simi 60]

Boondocking is RV living off the grid. You can choose to be downtown or out in the wilderness. Like dropping anchor there is no rent. RV operation is cheaper than Marine operation. Thus land living is cheaper.

Good luck with that in Australia

A decent RV with comparable comfort level (is it even possible??) will cost considerably more than our vessel
And I'm pretty sure it's illegal , certainly frowned upon to just pull up where you like in a RV here.

Us a few weeks ago in the middle of the big city and a free dock 100 metres away.
Pull up anywhere in an RV and you'll be towed within minutes.

 

[tiltrider1]

And that’s the difference between Australia and the US. We have rules against anchoring in big cities and no free docks but you can park an RV anywhere just by claiming to be homeless.

 

[psneeld]

I love how people argue one end of the spectrum to the other on this one.

I have had enough survival training to be able to live without a boat, a vehicle or a house.

Just don't want to.

I know some that keep their "stuff" up to Bristol standards (home, car, boat) and others not even close. I also know people that will put stuff in their house bought at West Marine for top dollar and then shop at Home Depot or flea markets for gear for their boats.

Yep.... I have even been in financial and general life situations where the pendulum has swung wildly on cost of living on land or water.

There is no real "one is cheaper than the other"...unless you get very specific about every tiny little aspect of that kind of living.

Heck... some huge number of discussions here are what people will absolutely live with or not or turn around and post what the significant other will live with or not. Factor those in and already the cost of either style starts climbing.

 

[DBG8492]

get ready, When Mrs reads it are you in for it, quick can you edit to sister

Not quick enough it would seem :lol:

 

[mvweebles]

.....
There is no real "one is cheaper than the other"...unless you get very specific about every tiny little aspect of that kind of living......

RV sure looks less expensive, but then cruising a boat is a pretty high bar. A friend recently purchased a new $450k 36-ft motorhome. Looks like that is well above the median spent on a motorhome. $450k wouldn't come close to buying a comparable trawler. He pays $500/mo for indoor climate controlled storage. No diver needed. That said, many other costs are similar. Insurance. Diesel mechanic. Systems' technician. $/night in a decent RV park is roughly in par of a transient berth.

Sure it depends. But for the average schmoe on TF who isn't an outlier in either direction (e.g. the 80%), many fewer surprise expenses with a motorhome than a boat. Unused, a boat has a higher burn-rate than an RV.