Trawler Heating

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I was actually thinking something like that might be a good option. At least temporarily until my next regular haul out for a bottom job, when I could add a through hull without the extra haul out expense.

there are the reverse suction problem but you should be able to use check valves and keep the pump well below the water line but dirty valves could become a pita . but the best option would be a new freshwater flush head .

i changed my forward head out and love it .i am planning to use the through hull for a wash down. when i change over the rear head I plan to use that through hull for the rear ac to shorten the run .
 
I hadn't considered a heat pump. I'll definitely look into it. Are they very difficult to install?

I was actually thinking something like that might be a good option. At least temporarily until my next regular haul out for a bottom job, when I could add a through hull without the extra haul out expense.


The intake thru-hull is one issue, discharge thru-hulls (for each unit) would be another, ducting would be a third, and then there's electrical (AC) circuitry (feed, breaker, wiring, etc.). The actual work might vary from one boat to another, some being easier due to access issues or whatever.

While you're shopping, you might find some boats were built with an option for reverse cycle AC/heat... and maybe already have unused thru-hulls in place, maybe have ducting in place. Just a thought. Or up your ante a bit and shop on boats that already have reverse cycle AC/heat installed. (Easy for me to spend your money.)

One way to solve the discharge thru-hull issue can be to route that to an existing shower sump.

FWIW, we were in 22°F weather last January when we left on our final southbound leg to Charleston, but water temps were still in the '40s... and we were toasty inside with our reverse cycle systems. At least when we were actually inside; the bridge was a bit nippy. :)

-Chris
 
The intake thru-hull is one issue, discharge thru-hulls (for each unit) would be another, ducting would be a third, and then there's electrical (AC) circuitry (feed, breaker, wiring, etc.). The actual work might vary from one boat to another, some being easier due to access issues or whatever.

While you're shopping, you might find some boats were built with an option for reverse cycle AC/heat... and maybe already have unused thru-hulls in place, maybe have ducting in place. Just a thought. Or up your ante a bit and shop on boats that already have reverse cycle AC/heat installed. (Easy for me to spend your money.)

One way to solve the discharge thru-hull issue can be to route that to an existing shower sump.

FWIW, we were in 22°F weather last January when we left on our final southbound leg to Charleston, but water temps were still in the '40s... and we were toasty inside with our reverse cycle systems. At least when we were actually inside; the bridge was a bit nippy. :)

-Chris

I agree, it would be great to find one with it already installed, but they are rare around San Diego. I did a search through yachtworld just to see what kinds of systems other people were using and maybe 1 in 10 boats had anything listed at all. Mostly newer, nicer, and way more expensive boats. I really don't mind doing installation myself. I have some experience with this kind of stuff and enjoy the challenge, especially the fiberglass and electrical stuff. I've never dealt with ducting, but I see that as more of a learning opportunity.
 
Our CHB has two 16,000 btu air con / heat pump units. It's in Mobile for some work and I was on it last week when the weather there was below freezing during the nights - gave me a chance to check out the heating - I arrived around 4 pm with 38 degree weather and turned on the heat (same knob as a/c, just turn to 'warm'!) - left to make a run to West Marine and when I returned about an hour later it was 85 degrees in the boat :eek: Had to open a door to cool it down. My vote for reverse cycle heat pumps!
 
I agree, it would be great to find one with it already installed, but they are rare around San Diego. I did a search through yachtworld just to see what kinds of systems other people were using and maybe 1 in 10 boats had anything listed at all.


I wonder if sellers would think to list existing ducting and thru-hulls, etc. for any boats that might have been built with "optional" (and not installed) AC... should such animals actually exist...

-Chris
 
My wife and I are moving to San Diego and have decided to take the plunge and live aboard. We've narrowed it down to some favorite boats in the 38-42 ft range, but none have heating or AC. After some research and advice from our broker, we've determined that AC isn't really necessary, and that if/when we need it, a portable solution would work just fine, so no issues there. The consensus on heat, on the other hand, is a different story. It doesn't get frigid cold in San Diego, but cold enough to make the investment worthwhile. I think many people get away with portable heaters, but we are expecting our first baby soon, and would prefer a permanent solution that would be safer and also provide a more constant temperature throughout the boat. Big Question: What advice do yall have on boat heating systems? We plan to spend most of our time (probably all of the time that heat is required) in a slip with reliable electricity constantly available, but electric heaters don't seem to be very popular for whatever reason (thoughts?). Cost is always a consideration, but not a limitation.
We are in San Diego on a Defever 48 and we only use a simple plug-in heater and it's totally adequate. Also, we have no Air Conditioning. There are just a few days a year that you wish you had it otherwise we just use fans.
 
We are in San Diego on a Defever 48 and we only use a simple plug-in heater and it's totally adequate. Also, we have no Air Conditioning. There are just a few days a year that you wish you had it otherwise we just use fans.
:thumb:
Likewise - we mostly use fans for air circulation and white noise. (San Diego is a noisy harbor). However we actually have not one, but TWO reverse cycle AC units installed by PO for use further south. We seldom use even one of them.

We DO use a small electric heater in winter, and even other months to take the chill off in the morning. You will definitely use a little heat more often than A/C in SD. That said, there are occasionally times when it is hot, humid and the air movement is minimal that you’d wish you had some A/C. I wouldn’t worry about it though. Pick up a free-standing upright room AC and run the hot air exhaust out a portlight. Several on our dock do that now. Couple hundred bucks vs. several thousand for a “marine” system.

Welcome to SD! Tons to do with kids!!
 
Heat pumps are very efficient, especially the split system domestic inverter reverse cycle offerings. Easy to install but of course need mains power.

To correct a misconception...the 12 volt through-hull water cooled ones (or 120v air cooled for that matter) do not take heat from the cabin and pump it into the water..and in reverse cycle, they do not take heat from the water and pump it into the cabin.

If the water is a few degrees above freezing, where is the heat that is going to be collected and pumped into the cabin at a toasty 75F?

It does not involve air or water transference.

Simplified, the way they work is that the refrigerant in the system changes from liquid to gas and back, via a pump, compressed, expanded, contracted, going from very hot to very cold, from liquid to gas and back.

In summer the cold refrigerant goes from liquid to gas, cools coils over which room air is blown, cooling the air. The gaseous refrigerant is pumped, becomes a hot liquid which is pumped to the outside coils where another fan blows the outside air over them to reduce their temperature.

That's why if you stand near the outside unit you feel hot air.

Now, in winter, the refrigerant is cycled in reverse. Instead of the outside coils heating up by the refrigerant, the inside ones heat up and air blown over them heats the room. The outside unit coils become quite cold.

So you'll notice air is not pumped from out to in or vice versa. Refrigerant only is pumped.

Hope that clears it up. I have even come across forums where posters try to rationalise their misconception by claiming that even though the outside air is cold, there are sufficient numbers of warm air particles that the reverse cycle air con somehow pluck from the air and pumps them inside to create warmth. Er..no.
 
Starcruiser,

I hate to rain on anyone's parade. And, I know these systems and especially the physics are complicated. But, the other folks do have it right. Typical residential heat pumps do move kinetic energy (manifested as heat) between the interior and exterior of a house, and vice versa. And, typical marine units do move kinetic energy (manifested as heat) between the water and the cabin.

Something which has no kinetic energy has a temperature of 0 Kelvin, -273.15 degrees Centigrade, -459.67 degrees Fahrenheit. At temperatures higher than this there is kinetic energy -- even if cold by human standards. And, anywhere in the widest range of temperatures where humans can exist, there is a ton of kinetic energy. 0 F is 255 K. 100 F is 311 K. There is only an 18% difference.

Heat is a form of energy, specifically kinetic energy (all heat is a form of kinetic energy, but not vice versa). And, there is a law of physics known as the "law of the conservation of energy". It basically means that energy can't be created or destroyed, just moved around or converted from one form to another. And, this is exactly what heat pumps do -- move it around.

When a heat pump is cooling, it is collecting kinetic energy indoors and moving it outdoors. This has the effect of making indoors cooler and outdoors warmer. This is why, for example, in a residential unit, you get cold air inside your house and warm air outside of your house at the outdoor unit where the fan blows. In the winter when running in "reverse cycle", the heat pump collects energy from outdoors and moves it indoors.

So, to answer your question, "If the water is a few degrees above freezing, where is the heat that is going to be collected and pumped into the cabin at a toasty 75F?" The answer is that even water which is a few degrees above freezing has a ton of energy in it. It gets colder and the cabin gets warmer. Just like in the summer, when the cabin gets cooler -- the outdoors gets warmer. It is the same as when a refrigerator gets cooler inside -- but makes heat by the vents at the bottom.

Having said that, there are practical limits. For example, moisture in the air is a real pain for residential reverse cycle units. In cold weather, especially with some humidity, condensation freezes, insulating things, and preventing the efficient transfer of heat. Most heat pumps have a defrost cycle where they operate for a bit without blowing air indoors to melt this frost off of the outside.

And, it is certainly the case that it is easier to scavenge energy from outdoors to move it indoors when it is warmer outdoors and thereby a greater energy density from which to scavenge. The reverse is true for cooling. As a result, heat pumps work much, much better in moderate climates than they do in, for example, very cold climates.

The fact that heat pumps transfer heat from indoors to outdoors is what accounts for the fact that they are much more efficient, for example, than other types of heaters which create heat from some other form of energy, e.g. burning fossil fuels to convert energy in chemical bonds to heat or resistive coils to convert electrical energy into heat (electrical energy and heat are two different forms of kinetic energy).

As for the mechanism by which heat pumps move kinetic energy from indoors to outdoors, you nailed it. They use a mechanical cycle to compress and evaporate liquid/gas. The compression releases kinetic energy in the form of heat and the evaporation collects it. The refrigerant loop transfers the heat. A fan is used to improve the efficiency of the transfer. And, because work needs to be done to compress the gas, move the fluid, run the fans, etc, the system isn't 100% efficient. In other words, it takes some energy to move the energy, which is why they need to be plugged in (or, rarely, powered by another energy source such as natural gas).

Regardless, yes, these systems do heat the cabin by taking heat from the water to cool the cabin. And, air and water transference are both required. It is just that this transference is facilitated by the mechanical system you describe.

Cheers!
-Greg
 
Last edited:
Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best. I would start with as many of the posters have said, electric heaters and see how the boat performs. If your happy great, you just saved thousands. If your not than move to the next step. There are several heating sources that don't have moving parts and are very safe to be around. Oil filled heaters or convection style heaters such as baseboard or panel heaters. In addition and nice forced air in the solon would be welcomed too such as the cabinet units. Electric blankets or how about wool. I can easily stay comfy with a wool blanket and down comfortable down to about the mid 50s. I would obtain and use the boat for a while - you never know what is going to be important after a few months.
You might just decide to complete several projects at the same time next haul out in conjunction with a heating upgrade.
 
I always used my electric blanket under a regular comforter, so it didn't lose heat. I tried an electric bed pad (what you called and may otherwise be known as a sheet). I didnt like it. Stretched over the bed it didnt drape me, conforming to my shape like the blanket, sobthere was less warm surface area in contact with me. I ended up using a higher setting, so more energy, and still having cold toes.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
 
"I didnt like it. Stretched over the bed it didn't drape me, conforming to my shape like the blanket, so there was less warm surface area in contact with me."

We found just the opposite , the covers would trap the heat over the entire bed surface , so if toes got cool simply moving ones feet over to a nice new warm area was a delight.

Offshore sailing with limited electric, the sheet would be turned on for about 15 min before the end of a watch (3 on 6 off) and the bunk would be toasty on climbing in.

Living aboard NYC a couple of decades the sheet allowed the Dickinson furnace to operate at the day setting , even during the winter nights.
This saved diesel which had to be hand carried to refill smallish sailboat tanks.


Works for us.
 
Last edited:
I don’t think we have seen the OP in this thread for over 6 months. Wonder if he bought the boat?
 
I have a 36ft Carver that has factory installed 16k Marineaires. I added a 5k "windowshaker" in the salon to help bring the temps down more quickly in the Florida summer until the Marineaires could catch up. I found that heating worked great until the water got down to the 50s. I added 3 bulkhead diesel heaters and will be getting rid of them when I find a better system.
A newed liveaboard and a new baby? You must have a very strong marriage.
 
I don’t think we have seen the OP in this thread for over 6 months. Wonder if he bought the boat?

First time liveabord, boatowners.....and a new baby? Maybe the process of simply looking gave him a dose of reality.
 
If I were going to use electric heaters (which wouldn't be my preference for long term solution) they would be residential oil filled portable radiators. The fire risk is almost absolute zero. They are quite (no fan), and have a tip over safety switch.

This is absolutely the safest space heater solution, & the only one I allow in my rental units. They are about $35 each at Target/Walmart, & each is sufficient to heat a salon or stateroom & more. Flannel sheets are amazingly warm, & in So. CA I wore longjohns Nov-Apr + nice $4 thrift shop wool sweaters. I do the same here in coastal NC. Why heat an entire house or boat when you only need to keep a body or two comfortable? Well-swaddled babies are warm & happy--in Scandinavia they are parked that way outside in their prams for several hours a day to enjoy the fresh air. Whatever one's final solution to interior heating/cooling, it is important to remember that there is ambient (enclosed) temperature & task heating. Same principle applies to lighting. You don't need to heat/cool/light the entire boat/house for all activities. You need a comfortable enough ambient environment, but it only is where you are located/tasking that you need intense heating/cooling/lighting. Proceed & spend accordingly.
 
I saw this on Ebay recently. Last winter we got up one morning to 8 degrees C in the cabin, too cold for us. Electric heat is fine at the dock but long running the genset for heat on the hook is not so good.
Too good to be true? Too cheap? POS? Dangerous? No need to use the supplied tank, better to plumb it in. There are other versions too.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5KW-12V...4851ff008043f0b36fb377c0a4a281&frcectupt=true
 
First time liveabord, boatowners.....and a new baby? Maybe the process of simply looking gave him a dose of reality.


Yeah, I certainly wouldn't be brave enough to do it. New baby is enough of reality dose, let alone a boat.
 
When we bought a SoCal sailboat and had it shipped to WA, we were going to use space heaters as needed. That worked out just fine until the first weekend we spent on the boat in 20 degree F temps. We had a diesel hydraunic furnace installed before the next winter.


I don't need heat when sleeping, thats why God made geese. Hanging out in a very cold cabin however, is not fun, particularly when you are trying to warm up after sailing out in the elements.
 
Be sure to check your insurance policy before using any heater on board.

My policy specifically states that a heater must be UL or CSA approved.
 
Be sure to check your insurance policy before using any heater on board.

My policy specifically states that a heater must be UL or CSA approved.


Around here there are marina policies to keep in mind as well. Our marina forbids running any fan based electric heater unattended. Too many marina fires.
 
When we bought a SoCal sailboat and had it shipped to WA, we were going to use space heaters as needed. That worked out just fine until the first weekend we spent on the boat in 20 degree F temps. We had a diesel hydraunic furnace installed before the next winter.
Indeed, WA State is an entirely different climate than that of San Diego, where this thread initiated. The same principles apply, but in northerly climes you definitely need a boost for your ambient temps. Humidity differences would also affect your adaptations. Even here in coastal NC, where snowmen occasionally appear in the landscape, So Cal heating devices/hacks would be insufficient.
 
I saw this on Ebay recently. Last winter we got up one morning to 8 degrees C in the cabin, too cold for us. Electric heat is fine at the dock but long running the genset for heat on the hook is not so good.
Too good to be true? Too cheap? POS? Dangerous? No need to use the supplied tank, better to plumb it in. There are other versions too.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5KW-12V...4851ff008043f0b36fb377c0a4a281&frcectupt=true

I also was looking at those, Bruce. Hmmmmmm I dunno.

For some reason I'd feel better with a cast iron or steel diesel heater over a plastic one.
 
Here`s the other one on Ebay, steel cased and multiple outlets US, but integral fuel tank.I think these are Chinese copies of original US made heaters costing way more. I also found a video review of a guy powering this one up and checking the amp draw which was up near 10A until it settled down. It needs a good exhaust system,don`t think I`d want it inside the cabin.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Diesel-...m4662953308:g:HIMAAOSw6D9dAfcA&frcectupt=true
 
Diesel air heaters are great. I have one. They usually come in 2, 4 or 5 kilowat outputs, and nifty electronic controllers and some with add-on sim receivers so they can be switched on remotely via mobile phone.

Eberspacher and Webasto were two of the original makers with ridiculous price tags approaching $2000. And equally exorbitant parts prices.

Now the Russians have their version, a Planar, which I installed on my 30-footer. They are less than half the price.

The Chinese make them, from very very cheap no-name brands to Chinese brands such as Belief, also very very cheap.

All look very alike.

All have basically 3 parts. The heater itself which burns diesel fuel from the boat's main tank or its own if you prefer; a controller in the cabin; and a small pump.

My 2 kw unit draws about 10 amps for about a minute at startup when the glowplug comes on, then drops to about 2 amps.

Diesel consumption on low is about 200 mls an hour.

Do we love it? Yes we do. Easy to install. The size of a shoe box. Clean, odourless heat
 
I have some experience with an air heater, 3 winters liveaboard in Seattle. Compared to hydronic their heat is nearly instant. Power it on and it's blowing hot air in seconds. It's more challenging to set up zones than with a hydronic system. I was living aboard a tri-cabin. I wanted the fwd cabin heated just enough to stay dry, the saloon toasty warm and the aft cabin just warm enough to sleep well. It took a lot of fiddling with vents to get it right. If a guest "adjusted" the vents I had to start all over again.

One poster above mentioned concerns about the plastic body. It's not a problem because the combustion chamber is heavy cast aluminum. The aluminum has fins and is well spaced from the plastic. Cabin air is drawn through the fins for heat. The plastic body never gets too hot, about the same temperature as the outlets at then end of the ducts. The exhaust does get very hot.

Do be careful when purchasing a Chinese or Russian knock off. Read the reviews and choose carefully. Espar and Webasto are more expensive but well known, well proven and well supported. Wallas is in my opinion the best. Quietest, lowest power draw, smallest size. I went in the middle with a ReformTech air heater. But they don't seem to be in the air heater business any longer.

If this will be a DIY install go with an air heater. Much easier. Also consider support. Living aboard with an infant you can't wait weeks for repair or parts. Keep in mind these heaters are not the equivalent of a home heater. They are not designed to run all winter long for years trouble free. You will need to service it and possibly replace it after not too many years. Removing and reinstalling an air heater is inlet and outlet for combustion air, an inlet and outlet for cabin air, fuel line, an electrical plug and a couple of mounting bolts. A a quick bit of work for a competent DIYer.
 
I saw this on Ebay recently. Last winter we got up one morning to 8 degrees C in the cabin, too cold for us. Electric heat is fine at the dock but long running the genset for heat on the hook is not so good.
Too good to be true? Too cheap? POS? Dangerous? No need to use the supplied tank, better to plumb it in. There are other versions too.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5KW-12V...4851ff008043f0b36fb377c0a4a281&frcectupt=true
I saw one of these running the other day. A marina neighbour installed the 5KW version in his small RV,even on low it overheats the space so they open windows. Some initial noise as it starts up at full speed and does a clean, then drops to quiet running. Uses .1 to .2 L per hour. Has an electric control panel and there is a wireless remote available.Self contained, everything in the kit, even a fuel tank.Quite impressive,issue for me is exhausting the thing safely. Thought of plumbing it into another exhaust, but seems it is quite hot and of course dry. Unit comes with a little muffler about the size on a lawnmower. I`d like one for next winter.
 
Back
Top Bottom