Simrad, RayMarine or Garmin

[Hippocampus]

NKE is considered the gold standard AP by most I’ve talked with as regards voyaging sailboats. B&G a distant second. None of the brands discussed in this thread are considered even in the same rank.

In my experience it’s very rare to see Garmin on blue water sailboats. B&G and Raymarine are common.

 

[rslifkin]

NKE is considered the gold standard AP by most I’ve talked with as regards voyaging sailboats. B&G a distant second. None of the brands discussed in this thread are considered even in the same rank.

Hardware-wise, the B&G autopilot is the same as Simrad, just with some sailing specific features added to the software.

 

[mvweebles]

I had never heard of NKE - appear to be a sail-specific brand. Many trawlers, especially west coast, have Comnav A/Ps. Frankly, I have never heard anything but enthusiastic accolades for them. Simple, intuitive, reliable. I've run one for years.

Peter

 

[Codger2]

Once the system is up and running, the systems are more similar than not...........I went to a small electronics dealer in Oakland CA (Star Marine - been there for years) who advertised being a Simrad dealer............. He suggested that while he couldn't come to the boat, if I could bring the system to him, he'd bench-test it.......Moral of the story: Finding the Right Guy may be a better solution than picking the right OEM platform.......... BTW - as I recall, the Right Guy who diagnosed my Simrad issue was mostly a Raymarine dealer. He said they'd come a long way over the years. r

Excellent post and advise!

 

[mvweebles]

BTW, knobs are just something to go bad and older technology.

BTW - Knob was a big reason I went with Simrad NSS3 system (Furuno also, but I opted for Simrad). In a seaway, touch-screen is difficult for me. A knob allows me to rest my palm to steady my hand. In my thinking, sometimes knobs are still the best input device - why anyone would want a touch-pad on an oven or car radio is beyond me. Not sure what problem is being solved.

To each their own!

Peter

 

[Hippocampus]

Once again agree with Peter. Even when hands are dry sometimes touch screens just don’t work. Very disconcerting at key moments.
Think there’s some differences in AP drive unit reliability depending on specific model but the biggest difference is in how “smart” they are. How fast they learn and respond. Was constantly fooling with the sensitivity of my RM evo unit. The NKEs have massively strong drive units but also seem to lead in their processing. Some years ago read a comparison of hand steering, mechanical AP and servopendulum windvane’s days work ( distance made good in 24 hours). Hand steering did worse, windvane second and AP best. Now with APs being smart and able to anticipate wave action on the boat they do even better. 90% of our steering is AP. On passage use the vane to save electricity. Very rarely hand steer except in severe weather. Our next trawler will have an AP of course. Depending upon which unit may buy another ram or drive unit as a spare as think the AP has risen to the point of being mission critical. Very rarely hear of black box failures except for rudder angle sensors.

Haven’t cracked open a B&G to compare with a simrad but even if it’s just software believe they are different.

 

[Fletcher500]

After 3 years of using a touch screen (TZT), no knobs, no issues, even in weather. To each his own, but as I posted earlier the separate control knob I purchased because of input I read on another forum was a waste of money and I rarely use it.

 

[Hippocampus]

Wonder what are various things that make a touch screen unresponsive. Something about the person? Humidity/wetness? Charge in the air? Have some people have troubles even on the one at the nav station down in air conditioning or heat-bone dry. Others have no issues even in spray or rain. Have noticed the MFDs have less troubles than pads but otherwise no consistent issues other than rain or spray.
The other issue is when it’s bumpy and you need to go through a menu or hit a small spot to change the scale. Find it much easier to use buttons, dials or joy sticks than a touch screen.

 

[SoWhat]

I'm a Raymarine fanboy but I have to agree that knobs are essential. My large mfd is non-responsive to touch so I use a keypad. My smaller mfd works fine but...
In my opinion, based upon the number of bad units I see sold on EBay, Ray hasn't mastered touchscreen technology. That includes the older a/c/e series and the newer axioms. Once you setup nmea2000 and ethernet everything is plug and play such as AP, Radar, AIS, so I have no intention of changing anytime soon.

I duplicate most of my routes on Navionics/IPad and have never experienced any touchscreen issues on IPad or IPhone.

 

[Pip]

I’m not a lover of autoroute, makes routing a bit like a car, there are too many variables to consider at sea, and I feel that it will in the long term turn the user into blindly following whatever route he was given and will make him a poorer seaman.

 

[catalinajack]

Autorouting is a useful tool. Any boater who follows an auto route without vetting each and every waypoint is, well, a fool. Poor seaman are not made by externals. You don't like auto-routing, then don't use it. Instead, spend lots of time plotting routes by hand with 2 or 3 hundred waypoints rather than adjusting a few waypoints from an autoroute. Makes perfect sense to me but I guess I must be a poor seaman.

I’m not a lover of autoroute, makes routing a bit like a car, there are too many variables to consider at sea, and I feel that it will in the long term turn the user into blindly following whatever route he was given and will make him a poorer seaman.

 

[Nepidae]

We are a Garmin boat with chartplotter, air, radar and autopilot among other items.

Autorouting is a tool that should be used with great care and observation continually.

It is actually a safer way to pilot as the course you steer with it is straight as an arrow which makes navigating better, less chance of wandering into the shallows.

IF you haven't done auto-routing it is easy to discount its benefit.

Linking auto-route with a remote gives you exact control of the helm. I can move in 1-degree increments, can you? I can probably navigate a route closer with a remote & auto-route than most can steer a route.

Also, IF you use waypoints and let the autopilot steer it isn't much different than allowing auto-routing to steer.

The person who thinks that you follow a route blindly has never used a chartplotter nor an autopilot. Get in touch so I can give you some incite. Once you know the capabilities you might change your mind.

 

[Seevee]

Resurrecting this thread again for some updates and really appreciate the input.



I've pretty much decided to keep my Garmin 8612, and get a second display for the lower helm.



I need to play with the auto routing (Garmin calls it auto guidance). I've just begun to experiment with it, but really like what I see. It's much faster to set up than the Simrad auto route, and you can modify it, when you can't with Simrad... big pluses.


I'm still vasilating on the radar, but leaning toward Garmin. The comparisons on the web and comments seem to favor Simrads Halo over the Garmin Fantom. I do want the ability to see crab pots, and get good definition on boats. My old Simrad (forerunner to the Halo) did that, but the definition at any range (~2 mi) was fair.


I'm keeping my Simrad AP24 autopilot and getting a remote and a control head for the lower helm.


Should I consider a new satellite compass? Old one seems to work, but hear raves about the satellite ones.

 

[tpbrady]

I'm in my 4th year using the Raymarine EVO autopilot and now use routes almost exclusively. Attached is a route going through Dry Pass on Prince of Wales Island. It is pretty narrow and I did it as an experiment. The autopilot following the route was pretty much dead on. I did learn when you get to a turn in the channel, set the way point 100-150 feet sooner than the turn as it the autopilot takes time to respond to the turn. Also if you reverse the route you need to add another waypoint on the other side of the turn.

I am finding routes being sent to the AP very useful.

Tom

 

[BandB]

I would always choose Furuno if I had a choice. I'll talk about charts and other things in a follow up post and what I use with it.

#2 would be Garmin. I've had very good luck with them, their service reputaion is acceptable although not great like Furuno. As a company I find them a bit annoying but their products are good.

#3 Raymarine. Service isn't very good often times but products work ok generally and are complete. I've used their products in school and been good with them.

#4 Simrad. I've never used anything but their autopilot which I'm fine with, but heard too many stories of issues and problems getting them addressed on their other products. Likely not a truly bad product but with the others good, why chance it.

 

[catalinajack]

Geez, so many opinions. Simrad #4? I don't know. I do know that five years later the Simrad suite I installed is still running flawlessly, plug and play from the beginning. Plus, there have been several software updates that have continually improved functionality.

As for Raymarine, a fellow dockmate is at his wits end with getting service from Raymarine. They told him to send in his non-functioning unit for an exchange to a later model and then did not deliver saying that units, scarce now, first go to dealers. Now, getting ready for a months-long cruise he is SOL.

Furuno always, it seems, is a first choice. However, they are very proud of their products price-wise. I think that is why the others have a significant portion of the market.

I would always choose Furuno if I had a choice. I'll talk about charts and other things in a follow up post and what I use with it.

#2 would be Garmin. I've had very good luck with them, their service reputaion is acceptable although not great like Furuno. As a company I find them a bit annoying but their products are good.

#3 Raymarine. Service isn't very good often times but products work ok generally and are complete. I've used their products in school and been good with them.

#4 Simrad. I've never used anything but their autopilot which I'm fine with, but heard too many stories of issues and problems getting them addressed on their other products. Likely not a truly bad product but with the others good, why chance it.

 

[rochepoint]

My "other" vote is for Furuno..........

 

[Constellation1]

I'm in my 4th year using the Raymarine EVO autopilot and now use routes almost exclusively. Attached is a route going through Dry Pass on Prince of Wales Island. It is pretty narrow and I did it as an experiment. The autopilot following the route was pretty much dead on. I did learn when you get to a turn in the channel, set the way point 100-150 feet sooner than the turn as it the autopilot takes time to respond to the turn. Also if you reverse the route you need to add another waypoint on the other side of the turn.

I am finding routes being sent to the AP very useful.

Tom

Question for you. My new to me boat has all current Raymarine gear (I'm a Garmin guy). Everything works well, but the autopilot makes me acknowledge every weigh point before it initiates the turn. Is this a settings things, or standard?

 

[BandB]

Geez, so many opinions. Simrad #4? I don't know. I do know that five years later the Simrad suite I installed is still running flawlessly, plug and play from the beginning. Plus, there have been several software updates that have continually improved functionality.

As for Raymarine, a fellow dockmate is at his wits end with getting service from Raymarine. They told him to send in his non-functioning unit for an exchange to a later model and then did not deliver saying that units, scarce now, first go to dealers. Now, getting ready for a months-long cruise he is SOL.

Furuno always, it seems, is a first choice. However, they are very proud of their products price-wise. I think that is why the others have a significant portion of the market.

Not saying Simrad doesn't have happy users and definitely not putting them far behind Raymarine which has driven many users wild. However, part of the Raymarine issue is that they have so many new installations due to so many deals with builders. I've known of several new Sunseekers with complete Simrad suites and mostly happy. The only people unhappy were captains use to Garmin and one person with problems they struggled to get fixed. As to the captains, hard to tell how much is just stubbornness in the face of change and perceived difference vs. real difference.

Personally, I would stick to Furuno or Garmin but not saying any of the four are really bad. Have you tried to get phone assistance from Simrad? I ask because that's where they and Raymarine seem to come up slightly behind.

 

[Constellation1]

I have brand new Garmin gear on my Whaler and one year old RayMarine on my trawler. I prefer Garmin; I find the user interface more intuitive. It's just my opinion.

 

[Seevee]

Good input, and like the great comments on Furuno. As much as I'd like to try Furuno, they have no auto routine and that's a no go for me.



Just sorting out the radar between Garmin and Simrad. And if I go Simrad I could make an argument to sell the Garmin I have now and go to all Simrad.



However, one BIG item is the service. Simrad, while good at times, doesn't hold a candle to Garmin, so I'm leaning strongly toward Garmin. Unfortunately I talked with a great Simrad tech guy the other day and was very convincing. Overall, the Simrad I had on my last boat was very good. But minor issues were a PITA to fix, and some things were just absurd! (like they sold me stuff that absolutely would not play together and after fighting it for three months, a guy finally said, "well, why didn't you get the xxx box that's necessary?" Makes ya wonder.

 

[danderer]

I've had electronics (plotters at the least) from Standard Horizon, Raymarine, and now Garmin.

Standard Horizon was over a decade ago - don't have feelings good or bad.

Raymarine worked well. Plotters and radar were fine and their latest AP was superb. I received good support via their forum. They provided hardware support of 10+-year-old hardware if they had the components available.

Garmin I'm not (yet?) comfortable with. Don't find their UI any more intuitive than the others, maybe less so. Limited cartography choices. I "tested" their support with a few questions and I was very unimpressed with the quality of the answers when finally received.

Thinking hard about replacing the relatively-new Garmin stuff with Furuno.

 

[catalinajack]

BandB - I have not tried to get assistance from Simrad as I have not needed it. I bought it, install it, turned it on, and it has worked flawlessly from the git-go. Lucky, I guess.

Not saying Simrad doesn't have happy users and definitely not putting them far behind Raymarine which has driven many users wild. However, part of the Raymarine issue is that they have so many new installations due to so many deals with builders. I've known of several new Sunseekers with complete Simrad suites and mostly happy. The only people unhappy were captains use to Garmin and one person with problems they struggled to get fixed. As to the captains, hard to tell how much is just stubbornness in the face of change and perceived difference vs. real difference.

Personally, I would stick to Furuno or Garmin but not saying any of the four are really bad. Have you tried to get phone assistance from Simrad? I ask because that's where they and Raymarine seem to come up slightly behind.

 

[Hippocampus]

Danderer totally agree with you. RM will give you support for a decade and will make at least an attempt to integrate legancy with new. They may not allow that after a few years when an entirely new series comes out but at least they try. Garmin is my last choice as support disappears as soon as a new product comes out. Furuno is the best at legacy support and imho the most durable. You see twenty even sometimes thirty year old stuff still working. Garmin limits your chart choices. That usually doesn’t matter if you’re in a high traffic area with frequent updating of the cartography but if you’re off the beaten path it’s sometimes helpful to look at several sources of cartography. Think Garmin has the best marketing and offers so many things other than core cartography, sensors and marine instruments. They cover air and land as well. Whereas believe furuno is more focused on commercial and recreational marine as their core business and think it shows.
If you flip boats frequently would pick RM and then Garmin. If you love your baby would pick furuno. If you’re on sail B&G, NKE for autopilot first, RM second and Garmin last.
Was surprised by survey to date where Garmin leads the pack. Among the choices in actual use there’s not much functionality that differentiates the choices. Due to Garmin’s business model they remain my last choice.

 

[Seevee]

I've decided on Garmin, and the last straw was service. Their service is certainly better than Simrad, which was choice two.



Gave up on Furuno... just don't have the features (auto route is one) and has been frustrating getting info....



Hippo, surprise you're not getting support from Garmin. I still get support and service from units that were discontinued in 2010, but still good stuff. And they DO return calls and have some good tech support.



Now, the problem is just getting stuff..... LONG back orders and shipping issues.

 

[BandB]

Gave up on Furuno... just don't have the features (auto route is one) and has been frustrating getting info....

Not sure where you came up with this but hope it doesn't mean I have to stop using my auto routing and have just been imagining it for all this time. Perhaps you've talked to persons who only had some Furuno products but not their entire package.

 

[Seevee]

Not sure where you came up with this but hope it doesn't mean I have to stop using my auto routing and have just been imagining it for all this time. Perhaps you've talked to persons who only had some Furuno products but not their entire package.

Do you have auto routing on Furuno? If you do, would like to know. I talked with a Furuno tech who said it's not available.


----
That's why I post here, AND call the manufacturers, installers and lastly the dealers (who seem to know least).



It's also quite surprising how many manuf tech folks don't know what their stuff does.


1. Find out what it does.
2. Verify that
3. And then get user feedback to see if it's true.

 

[Iggy]

I have had Garmin for years. Great tech support too. It worked and worked great. It times the menu was a little confusing.

My new boat came with all Simrad. After using it for 2 months, I would not go back to Garmin. Easier to use, more options, they make upgrades simpler with the installation in mind.

 

[Seevee]

I have had Garmin for years. Great tech support too. It worked and worked great. It times the menu was a little confusing.

My new boat came with all Simrad. After using it for 2 months, I would not go back to Garmin. Easier to use, more options, they make upgrades simpler with the installation in mind.

Iggy,
Agreed and also have had both. However, Garmin's support is significantly better and I'm ready for that. I'll miss the Simrad, it is great stuff. Had the latest and greatest of it for three years with minimal problems.... but there were a few and tech support was a pain. Enough for now.

 

[Dani lu]

I have 20 year old Raymarine gear on my boat, so hats off to the Raymarine company from yesteryear. Probably Raytheon gear rebranded. I doubt we will see any gear, well maybe Furuno, last that long ever again. I am about to order all new electronics, except for the radar. My Raymarine open array is still working well and I always plan to have two separate screens for radar and chartplotter/sonar. Not a fan of spilt screen or radar overlay.

Like others have said, I don’t like touch screen only. However, it looks like Garmin offers an external control panel, so I will be going with the Garmin 1243xsv, with the external control panel. Also Garmin sonar and autopilot. In the not to distant future, I will replace my raymarine radar with Garmin too.

I decided to go with Garmin because of their excellent customer service. I have heard too many service related horror stories about Simrad, to select them, even though I do like their touch screen with control knobs. I have also heard from too many folks about the difficulty getting support from Raymarine, so I didn’t select their Axiom product. I have always viewed Furuno as more of a Commercial product, but I honestly don’t have any experience with them. And B&G seems to be the sailor’s go to product, and I have been told they are basically Simrad.

But the reality is, if I was buying another boat, I would not be deterred from buying it if had Raymarine, Simrad or Furuno, on it.