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Old 04-21-2018, 09:54 AM   #21
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Headaches? What headache? Those things you're talking about aren't refrigerators, THIS is a refrigerator ;o)

That is not a boat. That is one of them big yachett
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:57 PM   #22
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A friend in Canada is renovating a great old 45 foot Monk trawler; he will be living aboard full time. He has taken a lesson from the "overlanding" folks who take prolonged back country trips. For them, power resources are a critical consideration.

Modern top-loading, high-efficiency fridge/freezer units from ARB, Engel, Dometic and others are far, far more efficient than virtually any of the units intended for marine use. They use a swing compressor system and all of them support both 120v and 12v.

In his case, he installed two stacked ARB units. They pull out on heavy-duty slides (as is commonly done in vehicle installations). They're all combination units that have the capability to be set as a pure freezer, pure fridge, or combination units.

We'll likely do a conversion like this at some point, though we'd use only one unit rather than two. Besides the big bump in power efficiency, I really prefer the top-loading configuration over squatting down to dig through and see what's been shoved to the back of the fridge.
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Old 04-21-2018, 01:53 PM   #23
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Using a 120v domestic refrigerator / freezer is not an issue for a boat which spends most of its time in a marina with shore power. It is an anchor that two things must be considered. My old Subzero refrigerator and separate freezer used 440 amps (DC) per day to operate off the inverter. This was a major drain on the batteries and required more generator run time. It also limited the number of hours we could leave the boat on day trips as we needed to run the generator to recharge the batteries.

The second aspect is the reduction in battery life because of this heavy usage. Lead acid batteries have lives measured in cycles, not years. Thus to draw down the battery bank to power the refrigeration regardless of whether you quickly recharge it is a cycle. My Trojan 105s are designed for 1200 cycles. To double the number of cycles per day to power the refrigeration cuts the battery life in half.

Again, like many things in boating, it is how you use the boat that determines certain factors as to what is best.

We switched from Subzeros to Isotherm units and loved the changed. Last season we rarely ran the generator in the evening.
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Old 04-21-2018, 02:03 PM   #24
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Did we ever decide which was the best "stand alone" 12vt freezer/refrigerator chest?
I may have to run away soon (some woman has declared her undying love for me) and want to get things all set up for a fast escape.
I am getting real scared.
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Old 04-21-2018, 03:08 PM   #25
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Using a 120v domestic refrigerator / freezer is not an issue for a boat which spends most of its time in a marina with shore power. .
And yet here I am with a boat full of domestic refrigeration and haven't been in a marina in two years.

Of course you do make a point about leaving the boat unintended for any length of time.
If there is no sun the batteries will go flat without someone firing up the genset though I suspect even with a 12v system, the same laws of physics will apply.

Reality is that if we had to leave the boat for any more than 48 hours we'd be putting her in a marina anyway so problem sorted.
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:23 PM   #26
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I know three people who have had Samsung fridges that died early and Samsung tried to deny the warranty even though it was well within warranty period, and then took 4-4 weeks to get a repairman and parts to fix them.

Samsung has some Q/C problems that need to be addressed before I'll buy anything from them again.
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:33 PM   #27
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Did we ever decide which was the best "stand alone" 12vt freezer/refrigerator chest?
I may have to run away soon (some woman has declared her undying love for me) and want to get things all set up for a fast escape.
I am getting real scared.
Engel for longevity and energy efficiency.

Can be a bit noisier than the Waeco / Danfoss type.

Really not huge differences, if you find a great bargain per cu.ft. grab it.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:05 PM   #28
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Engel for longevity and energy efficiency.

Can be a bit noisier than the Waeco / Danfoss type.

Really not huge differences, if you find a great bargain per cu.ft. grab it.
It will be in the AT tank room
Thanks
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Old 04-22-2018, 02:33 AM   #29
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[QUOTE=stubones99;656667]
Samsung has some Q/C problems that need to be addressed before I'll buy anything from them again.[/QUOTE,]Samsung had a spot of bother here with washing machines catching fire (and some houses they were installed in)and with repairs, warranty, recall, etc.
But a 610L Hisense 2 door fridge/freezer costs around $950,and a 50L Waeco(Dometic) costs about the same. Both are made in China.
Somewhat troubling on price and value.
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Old 04-22-2018, 08:50 AM   #30
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The issue of appliances catching fire is not a unique Samsung issue. My son's house burned down from a Bosch dishwasher. I believe the issue is PCBs that depend on the circuit breaker for overload protection, yet only draw milliamps, get some moisture on them, short circuit, and by the time the amperage draw is sufficient to trip the breaker because wires are melting, are already on fire, or so said the fire marshal.
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Old 04-22-2018, 09:31 AM   #31
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The efficiency best, as I understand it is Frost King. Expensive though
I have 2 swing door Engles and a lift door that is designated freezer. The insulation is very lacking but the electrical efficiency is great. Been going 4 years, non stop.
I really like the fact that they are stand alone from solar/batteries only, less cloudy days. On long nights I may have to give a genset boost before bed but on a 50-50 dark-light day I wake up to 70 to 75% left in the batteries. I have 720 watts of solar and 1135 amps @ 20 hours of battery bank. 10 Golf Cart 6 volt. Need more batteries but alas, no room. Day break to float is before noon.
All that being said, I think the inverter to Frost King might be the best way to go with a robust solar-battery set up.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:23 AM   #32
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And yet here I am with a boat full of domestic refrigeration and haven't been in a marina in two years.

Of course you do make a point about leaving the boat unintended for any length of time.
If there is no sun the batteries will go flat without someone firing up the genset though I suspect even with a 12v system, the same laws of physics will apply.

Reality is that if we had to leave the boat for any more than 48 hours we'd be putting her in a marina anyway so problem sorted.

Of course I agree with most all above with the exception of having to run a genny if without sun for a few days. There are exceptions.

First is whether the only load on the batteries is the refrigeration system and how much solar is onboard. I find that even in rain, I get some charge from my solar (1180 watts). There is illumance present even in rain. My anchoring experience is to run our genny about an hour or so both in the mornings and evenings for meals that include morning coffee. Last year I had genny problems and relied entirely on solar to recharge.

Our load includes a 3kw true sine wave inverter that runs continuously although the fridge is powered by controls that forces it to use genny/dock power when available. Also we have two 32” HDTVs, one that seems to operate almost all day and night, microwave oven, lights and so forth.

Our fridge is a Summit 8.3cuft beauty that unfortunately is no longer made. I don’t know what I can replace it with if it should fail but so far it is entering its 11th year of life on our boat. The freezer keeps ice cream rock hard. The self defrost is a God send along with an interior light. But this I do know, if it should fail, I will never ever consider using an expensive so called marine fridge. Fridge selection as we all know is a matter of personal choice.
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:09 PM   #33
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The efficiency best, as I understand it is Frost King. Expensive though
???

Links please?
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:09 PM   #34
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Of course I agree with most all above with the exception of having to run a genny if without sun for a few days. There are exceptions.

First is whether the only load on the batteries is the refrigeration system and how much solar is onboard.
Just running refrigeration only, we could probably run near indefinitely on solar even in winter.

Add the 180 litre 240v hot water system in which pulls 70ish amps for 1.5 hours a day going from on average, 52c to 60c, and all bets are off.

In summer, we can run that HWS on solar as well, we just wait until about 10am before hitting the switch hen we are now at around 93% SOC and have between 60 and 80 amps coming in from the panels.
Its done by 11:30sh and batteries will be at 100% about 1 hour later.

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I will never ever consider using an expensive so called marine fridge. Fridge selection as we all know is a matter of personal choice
No argument there.
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:29 PM   #35
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Just running refrigeration only, we could probably run near indefinitely on solar even in winter.

Add the 180 litre 240v hot water system in which pulls 70ish amps for 1.5 hours a day going from on average, 52c to 60c, and all bets are off.

In summer, we can run that HWS on solar as well, we just wait until about 10am before hitting the switch hen we are now at around 93% SOC and have between 60 and 80 amps coming in from the panels.
Its done by 11:30sh and batteries will be at 100% about 1 hour later.


No argument there.
WOW!!! You have a very impressive system and we both appear to firmly agree on domestic refrigeration use.

How large is your solar installation? I thought with my puny 1180 watt panels could hit my MTTP's current limit, 70 amperes. So far my maximum charge current is in the low 60 range. I need to increase a wire size on a short link from the controller to the #2 copper wire battery feeder. I am certain because the wire, about 3' gets hot with high charging currents or run a separate wire pair from the batteries to the controller to read the correct voltage without wire drops.
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Old 04-22-2018, 05:00 PM   #36
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9 x 250w (2250w) Jinko panels set as 3x3
1 midnite classic 150 mppt
1 victron 5000va/120amp inverter charger (original victron 60amp charger on standby as spare)
8 x 220ah 12v batts wired up as 24v

Have space up there for 3 more panels fwd of the funnel or aft on the stainless steel frame but would need another smaller mppt as well.

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Old 04-22-2018, 05:25 PM   #37
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For everyone claiming one type of fridge is more efficient than another, can you quote some numbers? Some may be misled by the amp rating. That number is useful only to determine the appropriate size wire. The only way to determine total energy consumed is to test a fridge over several days with a device which measures total KWH.

A few months ago I tested our 11year old GE 15.5 cu ft fridge with a Kill-a-Watt, and found that it used 1.7 kwh/day. Our inverter is 90% efficient, so our fridge uses 1.9 kwh/day from the batteries. This amount includes the freezer portion, the automatic defrost, and the interior light.
I then looked at the EnergyStar rating (www.energystar.gov) for a new fridge equivalent, and found GTE16GSHSS had an EnergyStar rating of 1.17 KWH/day, or about 40% more efficient than our 11 year old version. One other thing I noticed from the EnergyStar ratings is that the amount of energy consumed is in direct proportion to the size of the fridge. Smaller fridges use proportionately less.
I could not find any EnergyStar ratings for 12V or dual voltage fridges. EnergyStar is a voluntary program so no manufacturer is compelled to submit their equipment for testing.
Can anyone give a link to energy ratings for "marine" fridges.

Arguing what is the best kind and size of fridge is like arguing what is the best kind of boat. It depends on your lifestyle, and where you cruise. For us, we will stick with our old 120V AC fridge. But if it craps out we will not spend much on repairs. Instead we will replace it with a new more efficient 120V AC model.
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Old 04-22-2018, 05:35 PM   #38
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9 x 250w (2250w) Jinko panels set as 3x3
1 midnite classic 150 mppt
1 victron 5000va/120amp inverter charger (original victron 60amp charger on standby as spare)
8 x 220ah 12v batts wired up as 24v

Have space up there for 3 more panels fwd of the funnel or aft on the stainless steel frame but would need another smaller mppt as well.


You are well equipped!!! Nice job!
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Old 04-22-2018, 06:40 PM   #39
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The really efficient AC fridges are 240V, sold in more developed markets where energy efficiency is a much higher regulatory priority than in the "free-market" US.

I have rarely used over 40AH per day with any 12V compressor fridge, except when in freezer mode or over 85-90F ambient temps.

And that's with OTS portables with poor insulation. Proper custom marine installs with 4" foam can average less than that with spillover dual use and double the cu.ft. capacity, and eutectic holding plate designs can basically run off otherwise unused "excess" power, not use much battery energy at all.

But on a trawler, few are going to care about that level of engineering just to save AH, household appliances are so cheap, you've more room than sailboats for panels, and / or the big engines' right there. . .
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Old 05-10-2018, 12:40 AM   #40
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AC/DC marine refers way overrated. One of my best days was when I replaced my cranky Norcold with a $300 Hotpoint. Add an inverter and you have AC/DC. That's essentially all the Norcold does. Ym
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