Portable power station

[Iggy]

Why not just add to your house bank and have a good inverter, that's all you are really doing.

Yep!

 

[Lou_tribal]

Okay, I can appreciate the skepticism many of you have with this technology. But I've given it a lot of thought and have come to think of it in boat terms--as a dedicated "inverter battery bank". If I go ahead with this, my plan is to add a 120VAC duplex outlet in the galley, labeled "inverter power" and plug it into the power station. It will run the toaster, coffee maker, 600 watt microwave, and charge the laptop and mobile devices. Keep in mind, the built-in LifePo4 lithium battery can deliver 2400Wh of usable power (equal to 2x4D AGM @ 50%) before needing a charge, which can be achieved overnight from shore power or during generator runs. Just guessing, but I think we could go 2-3 weeks before recharging. (An added bonus for those of us who RV in the off-season or experience power outages, is the portability -- take it off the boat and use it at home or take it on the road. All this for for a mere 1.5 boat unit$! Have I won anyone over?

One thing I would suggest you is to measure how often you are using your toaster/coffee maker/microwave etc and for how long.
Base on this you would have an idea of the power consumption and compare with this power pack capacity.

Also one thing to ask yourself is what is the price of a LifePo4 battery with same capacity plus an inverter and compare with the price of that pack. If this pack is far cheaper I would wonder why.

L

 

[SteveK]

Okay, I can appreciate the skepticism many of you have with this technology. But I've given it a lot of thought and have come to think of it in boat terms--as a dedicated "inverter battery bank". If I go ahead with this, my plan is to add a 120VAC duplex outlet in the galley, labeled "inverter power" and plug it into the power station. It will run the toaster, coffee maker, 600 watt microwave, and charge the laptop and mobile devices. Keep in mind, the built-in LifePo4 lithium battery can deliver 2400Wh of usable power (equal to 2x4D AGM @ 50%) before needing a charge, which can be achieved overnight from shore power or during generator runs. Just guessing, but I think we could go 2-3 weeks before recharging. (An added bonus for those of us who RV in the off-season or experience power outages, is the portability -- take it off the boat and use it at home or take it on the road. All this for for a mere 1.5 boat unit$! Have I won anyone over?

Of course it will work. For how long depends on what you use and how often.
We are skeptical because we have inverters that can output more total and we use it. I can go 3-5 days before a recharge is considered. If your unit can do the daily use of what you have listed above, we all want to hear about it.
I have 6-6V batteries powering a 2K continuous inverter.

I have a UPS that powers 2 computers, 4 monitors, modem and router for about 1/2 hour and it is about the size of the suggested mobile device. I would be interested in knowing if this unit would power same for a day at the office with some lights.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Harbor Freight type inverters can be had for a LOT less than your quote. Usage will be limited by cost but for a couple or few hundred dollars you will certainly be in the 'coffee" business.

Now for the real point of my response:

We get a "ton" of members asking about shipping boats cross country. Most members advise against it for a variety of reasons, high cost and unreliability of the shippers and the potential damage to the boat are probably the top three. How about a first person report on how it went for you? Please include pictures and prices.

Thanks,

pete

 

[JLD]

I'm happy with the much smaller Bluetti that I bought 6 weeks ago.

I got the AC505S (500Wh/300W) to power my portable fridge/freezer in my truck. Cost me $413. Using it smartly, it should power by portable fridge for 2 full days, or my cpap for 4+ days. Happy with the testing I've done with it, but haven't used it in the truck yet.

Jim

 

[SoWhat]

Oh, come on. There was no such conclusion in any of the reports. That's speculation, and/or your opinion.

NTSB stated they could not determine cause because boat burned to the waterline but they certainly made their opinion of lithium batteries very clear.

NTSB Maritime Safety Report NTSB/MAR-20/03, PB2020-101011

Batteries (in particular, lithium-ion batteries) have a known and documented history of initiating accidental fires. In the past, the Consumer Product Safety Commission has issued numerous product safety recalls due to fires caused by electronic devices with defective batteries and chargers. The NTSB has investigated accidents in which battery failures led to fires, and, based on the history of incidents involving fires, the Federal Aviation Administration enforces regulations on the carriage of lithium-ion batteries aboard passenger aircraft. 36 About a year prior to the fire on board the Conception, a small fire involving a charging lithium-ion battery took place on board the similar vessel Vision; a passenger was able to extinguish the fire by unplugging the charger and throwing it in a rinse bin. However, unlike in the incident on board the Vision, the fire aboard the Conception grew, and the vessel burned for almost four hours, thus destroying much of the materials in the salon and aft deck area. Further, based on past accidents that the NTSB has investigated, conclusive causal physical evidence identifying a thermal runaway of a lithium-ion battery is difficult to differentiate from a lithium-ion battery thermal runaway caused by exposure to fire.

 

[nwboater]

Pete,
You asked about my experience buying and transporting an "east coast" boat to the PNW. First off, I need to set the stage: Last year we decided to downsize from a Selene 47 to something smaller. In late November we found a full-price buyer for the Selene. In order to side step WA sales tax, we had to complete the purchase of a new boat simultaneously with the sale of the Selene. We had pretty much decided on the American Tug 34 but none were available locally. YW showed several for sale in Florida and the east coast and one in Texas. Because of unfortunate circumstances, the Texas boat was being offered at a deep discount for a quick sale. I made an offer that took into consideration my cost to truck the boat from Galveston Bay to Anacortes ($15K). The offer was accepted just in time to close on the sale of the Selene which saved us $16K in taxes. As part of my overall budget, I factored in $8K-$10K to install a diesel heater (Wallas Spartan) plus the usual minor repairs and maintenance common to a new boat purchase. All in all, the purchase of the tug + shipping + upgrades is still below what a similar 2003 AT34 sells for here in the PNW ($235-$265). So money-wise, we did good Unfortunately, transporting the boat here didn't go so good :-( The driver took the northern route through NM (in December!) instead of the preferred southern route...and got stuck in freezing weather for 10 hours. Because the trucking company didn't bother to drain the water tank before departing TX, the PVC water lines ruptured en route. Insurance is paying for most of the cost to rebuild the fresh water system; otherwise, the boat arrived dirty but in one piece.

Happily, fresh water is now flowing and the heater should be ready to fire up on Monday. In the mean time, I pulled the bow thruster and had it rebuilt ($1200) and replaced a few hoses and clamps on the Cummins. The boat came with a brand new Raymarine Axiom nav and radar package, a Torqeedo outboard and tons of quality tools and spares left on the boat by the deceased owner. Next week a new Portland Pudgy arrives to be installed on the swim platform. After that we should be ready to take her out for a proper sea trial on Puget Sound. Excited for that!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Harbor Freight type inverters can be had for a LOT less than your quote. Usage will be limited by cost but for a couple or few hundred dollars you will certainly be in the 'coffee" business.

Now for the real point of my response:

We get a "ton" of members asking about shipping boats cross country. Most members advise against it for a variety of reasons, high cost and unreliability of the shippers and the potential damage to the boat are probably the top three. How about a first person report on how it went for you? Please include pictures and prices.

Thanks,

pete

$299 for a 3k watt inverter at harbor fright with 4 outlets. I have one with 2 outlets.
NOTE: not for gas motored unless you mount it somewhere other than the engine room.

 

[Choices]

Why not get a 12v coffee pot?

 

[Rthomas]

A 1000w is somewhat small. It would not run a microwave nor many coffee makers, toasters, or electric motors. Why not get a 3000w inverter and run it off the house bank ?. That would give you more versatility and costs much less. I use one to power the refridgerator. If you go this way be sure to use very short and heavy cables between the inverter and battery bank. Also, get one with a remote control for the convenience.

 

[stevemitchell]

Something in my electrician brain is saying there is a risk with plugging in a portable power supply into an outlet / inlet and running everything off of it, but I must be getting older and can't seem to put my finger on what the concern is....

 

[MV Caroline]

remember, there are three ways of accomplishing just about anything:
1. The right way
2. The wrong way
3. My way

 

[Amadeus]

When you are talking about Lithium batteries, you need to differentiate between lithium ion batteries, which can be probelmatic due to over heating during charging and a possible thermal runaway; and Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries wheich have a much more stable chemistry and are very safe.

Lithium ion batteries have a higher energy density but a significantly lower maximum disharge rate compared to LiFeP. Also, LiFeP batteries can have up to 10x the life cycle limit of lithium ion batteries. And, lithium ion batteries are toxic and can be difficult to dispose of properly.

At Triton Submarines we build our own deep ocean LiFeP batteries, which are oil compensated and function down to full ocean depth (36,000 feet, 16,000 psi) without issue. Our Triton 36,000/2, the deepest diving submersible in history, has about $1 million worth of batteries aboard). We use LiFeP batteries extensively in our submersibles and the batteries are certified by DNV/GL. We've never had an issue. But we don't use Lithium Ion batteries at all.

 

[dutch-barge]

the real question is.....your electric stove is MORE than 1000W
many are 1.8 Kw...
and how long are you cooking and how will you recharge it ?
A 3000 W Victron inverter is about $1300..
add batteries and cables and for $3000 you have a real system ...that you can charge while underway and later with solar.
That Yeti is just a band-aide , not integrated ...

 

[Simi 60]

The simplest way to make coffee is with a SS 8 cup espresso pot (makes 4 std sized cups) .

There fast and the sound calls when finished.

If your range is not yet propane a Sea Swing stove with a gas burner is quick and can be used for many other chores.

The simplest way is to boil water and open a jar of instant coffee

 

[Stevecman]

A review of the Bluetti specs indicate the batteries are NMC ( Li Nickel Magnesium Cobalt), not LiFePo (Li Iron Phosphate).

LiFePo batteries are considered far more stable and in common use in marine battery banks.

Notwithstanding differing opinions on the cause of the tragic dive boat fire near Santa Barbara, I agree with the earlier post that such a large NMC battery pack should not be left charging unattended, particularly on a boat. There have been too many instances of thermal runaway and fires with this chemistry.

The power station is a novel idea which may work for a few days of camping, but IMO it lacks the capacity needed for the proposed purpose while cruising.

Step up and install an inverter and additional battery capacity.

 

[tisado]

Exactly. I add sugar and milk so instant works for me. We do carry a large Melita cone so make real coffee if company comes.

The simplest way is to boil water and open a jar of instant coffee

 

[MVDarlin]

Get rid of the electric stove, go propane, and add a gen set. I've messed with large solar array (12 panels) and large battery bank (14) without success in sunny Mexico. Genny is best.

 

[Simi 60]

Get rid of the electric stove, go propane, and add a gen set. I've messed with large solar array (12 panels) and large battery bank (14) without success in sunny Mexico. Genny is best.

12 x 25w????

I have been cruising full time with a solar array, 9x250w works a treat
Still have gas stove and a rarely used genset

 

[OldDan1943]

The key is, will you house batteries support your inverter. I have 3x4D AGM house batteries. That is3x200amps with usable 300amps. The 1200 watt microwave sucks the batteries down rather fast.

 

[OldDan1943]

The simplest way is to boil water and open a jar of instant coffee

Pox on the people who think instant coffee is good

 

[Cartouche]

I recently bought an "east coast" boat and had it shipped to the PNW. It has electric stove plus AC/heat pumps...but no inverter. Our boating season usually begins in the spring and runs to early fall, so many weeks and months cruising and living on board. All of our boats have had inverters, used mostly for making coffee and reheating leftovers for lunch. I recently got a quote for installing an inverter, all to ABYC standards, and it came to $4,800...just to reheat coffee!

Then I learned about portable power stations; basically, a lithium battery in a case with built-in inverter and an assortment of charging inputs and outputs (AC/12VDC/solar). They are available is a range of sizes between 1000-3000 watt output with 1500-3000 Wh capacities. Cost is between $1200-$3000. The one I'm looking at delivers 1000 watts with 2400Wh capacity.

https://www.bluetti.com/collections/1000-2000w/products/blutti-1500wh-portable-power-station

This new technology seems like a great solution for getting occasional AC power without running the genny. Not only do we get pure sine 120VAC power but we also get added battery capacity! Since we visit marinas in-between anchoring, we should have no trouble recharging the power station from our shore power hookup. Plus, the power station would get some charge when we run the generator to charge up the house batteries. Is anyone using one of these units on their boat or RV? What am I missing?

When we had our sail boat with no generator we used the attached uses 1lb propand cannister and sat in a Cockpit locker very efficient and very safe
https://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cfm?category=11503|11655&product=60967572&code=EFOY 80I

 

[Pete Meisinger]

I LOVE my coffee in the morning. I will not give it up. Having that coffee on my boat enhances both experiences.

I have a nice genny which satisfies all our electrical needs. If it is not running I use my propane stove for coffee. If for some reason that is not functioning I have a backup butane stove which really makes hot water quickly. (I keep it on board in case we decide to cook at a picnic table instead of on the boat. It is really nice).

Guess I never considered lukewarm instant coffee. rather drink poison.

pete

 

[guy with a boat]

The simplest way is to boil water and open a jar of instant coffee

I admire your ability to improvise and build a great boat at low cost, but this is just crazy talk.

 

[twistedtree]

When you are talking about Lithium batteries, you need to differentiate between lithium ion batteries, which can be probelmatic due to over heating during charging and a possible thermal runaway; and Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries wheich have a much more stable chemistry and are very safe.

Lithium ion batteries have a higher energy density but a significantly lower maximum disharge rate compared to LiFeP. Also, LiFeP batteries can have up to 10x the life cycle limit of lithium ion batteries. And, lithium ion batteries are toxic and can be difficult to dispose of properly.

At Triton Submarines we build our own deep ocean LiFeP batteries, which are oil compensated and function down to full ocean depth (36,000 feet, 16,000 psi) without issue. Our Triton 36,000/2, the deepest diving submersible in history, has about $1 million worth of batteries aboard). We use LiFeP batteries extensively in our submersibles and the batteries are certified by DNV/GL. We've never had an issue. But we don't use Lithium Ion batteries at all.

I agree with what you are saying about LiFePO4 vs other chemistries, but I think your terminology is a bit confusing.

Lithium Ion is a family of battery chemistries, within which there are a number of specific chemistries with varying performance.

LiFePO4, or LFP for short, is by far the most stable and safest, and in my opinion, and apparently the Navy’s too, is the only type suitable for large banks on a boat.

Other common types are NMC and LFC, commonly used in cars and portable devices. These have higher power density which is very important for those applications, but it comes at greater safety risk.

But all of these, including LFP, are more broadly Lithium Ion.

It’s really no different than Lead Acid batteries, of which there are many types. Flooded, AGM, GEL, carbon foam, etc.

 

[thataway]

Okay, I can appreciate the skepticism many of you have with this technology. But I've given it a lot of thought and have come to think of it in boat terms--as a dedicated "inverter battery bank". If I go ahead with this, my plan is to add a 120VAC duplex outlet in the galley, labeled "inverter power" and plug it into the power station. It will run the toaster, coffee maker, 600 watt microwave, and charge the laptop and mobile devices. Keep in mind, the built-in LifePo4 lithium battery can deliver 2400Wh of usable power (equal to 2x4D AGM @ 50%) before needing a charge, which can be achieved overnight from shore power or during generator runs.?

You are bypassing ABYC standards by wiring a duplex socket in the galley into this power bank. You are not using the preferred LFP batteries which have been proven to be safe. You have a good chance of not having enough power. Your charging will be slow.

The "600 watt" microwave is output, not input. It may or may not run on 1000 watts. These 600 watt appliances will suck that little inverter battery bank right down. You charing capacity is a limiting factor. What size is the built in battery charger? I'll bet it is low.

I have a 2000 Watt Victron/80 amp charger/ with two, 100 amp hour LiFePO4 batteries, which provides power for a "700 watt" microwave--draws up to 1200 watts, an induction burner, plus 12 volt refrigerator and 12 volt freezer.
I know I can charge the LFP battery rapidly and also from my engine via a battery to battery charger at 30 amps any time the engine is running.

Costs were about $1200 for the inverter/charger, $200 for the Victron monitor, $950 each for LiFePO4 Battle Born batteries. Plus cables and switches--another couple of hundred dollars.

I have had friends who tried to run even portable chest type refrigerator/freezers, and coffee makers off similar(not the same) power packs, and they were disappointed.

 

[AusCan]

There are a few things that are never agreed upon; anchors, AC/DC power systems and coffee.

I usually use a butane stove and a French press for making coffee. Simple, fast and effective, which is what I want in the morning.

Sorry Simi - I agree with most of your posts, but that instant powder stuff is not coffee.

 

[fgarriso]

Honda 2200-Watt Recoil Start Gasoline Powered Inverter Generator with 20 Amp Outlet for $1200 at Home Depo!

 

[gsholz]

Richard, in my mind these Bluetti powerstations would be OK for occasional use. I'd look for one with LiFePo4 internal batteries for safety. One downside I see would be the lack of remote operation. The unit has to be accessible and visible to operate. It would have to be pretty much in the main cabin/galley and there is not much free space in a 34' boat. Another downside is the external charging brick (150W?) which will take 10-15 hours to recharge the unit. To run heavy loads (coffee maker, microwave, etc). I'd fire up the generator. They need to run often to last. The powerstation would be fine to run a couple of laptops or to recharge the phones in a quiet anchorage. But for that type of use, you could get away with a much smaller unit.

 

[Davil1]

I have a sailboat, looking for trawler, that is why read this forum.
My inverter (2000W) kept tripping off when trying to run the 600W microwave.
After sweating and cursing
with the heat and humidity, working inside one of the cockpit lockers where the house bank is finally found the problem.
My 85 dollars an hour marine electrician installed the inverter with undersize cables!!!!
Ripped off all of them!!!
This is the cost of a new inverter as backup (cannot live without microwave when under way, cooking on open flame stove in a sailboat is a challenge).

Points, Harborfreight has a good unit on sale, about same price as my Amazon, have to return it because of the size, too high for the space I have PLUS the Amazon unit comes with cables (about $35 a set)

Point. I order an external/surface mounting outlet, to connect an 110 volts regular household cable extension to connect the inverter output to this outlet where it can connect the microwave or any other electric gizmo. Totally isolated from the A/C boat system.
This bypass the A/C system and does not incorporate the inverter output into the boat A/C panel.

Point Note the size and length of needed cable, most failures are due to undersize cables.
For the Amazon unit installed in the locker used the 3 ft length supplied cables, just fine as per ampacity.
For the unit inside the boat next to the microwave and further away from the house bank, notice the size needed again using the ampacity tables and the inverter install instructions!!! (1/0 Gauge AWG (5 Feet Black + 5 Feet Red)

total cost ,not included some screws and small supplies

Ampeak 2000W Power Inverter 3 AC Outlets DC 12V to 110V AC Car Converter 2.1A USB Inverter
Sold by: Autoer-US
Serial Numbers:
AZ:E79QI5TOA5BTBGOODGWIKZIZKQ
Return eligible through Sep 19, 2021
$156.99
========================================

Leviton 91 15 Amp, 125 Volt, Grounding, Double Surface-Mount, 2 Round Or Flat Plugs Accepted, Brown
Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
Return eligible through Sep 30, 2021
$9.09
=================================

Commercial Chef Countertop Microwave Oven, 0.6 Cu. Ft, Black
Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC
Return eligible through Sep 29, 2021
$62.99
Condition: New
==============================


WindyNation 1/0 Gauge AWG (5 Feet Black + 5 Feet Red) Power Inverter Battery Cable Wire Kit for DC to AC Inverters RV, Car, Solar, Marine, Off-Grid
Sold by: WindyNation
$53.89

Also, the usual disclaimer,I am not a Marine Electrician, what I did may or may not be appropriate for your boat.
Also, you have to feel comfortable with your skills and knowledge about electric systems,