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Old 10-04-2018, 07:05 AM   #21
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We almost didn't buy our boat because the starboard engine is contra-rotating and one of the major Perkins parts suppliers told us that parts for it no longer existed. They said to run away. I then got a second opinion from Trans Atlantic Diesel and learned that Perkins, for some reason, gave all parts on the reverse rotation engines different part numbers. Only about six unlikely to fail parts are different. Just look up the normal engine's part number and use it.


We love our 1975 Perkins 6.354's. I would consider Perkins a plus if I was looking for another older trawler as long as they were not turbo.
Good info. I figured there was more to it than every part being different. Strange how Perk did that to mess with people's minds.
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Old 10-04-2018, 07:19 AM   #22
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To the OP, don't get me wrong. If I had a choice of what engine we had, a 40 yo Perkins wouldn't be the 1st one. I would much rather have had a Cummins or Deere or a host of later model engines but since we were pretty much firm on the kind of boat we wanted, we couldn't be to picky about the propulsion. So far, the turbo has not been a problem (knock on wood) and the heat exchanger isn't a manicooler style so we're good. My main gripe is the salt-water cooled iron exhaust manifold and after cooler. IMO it's a dumb design but ours was always a upper bay boat which was brackish to fresh water so they've lasted until recently. I've bypassed the aftercooler that got a pinhole in it because we cruise at a low RPM anyway & the exhaust gas temp doesn't get high. I'm not sure if I'll replace it or not. The exhaust manifold is another story. We're running on borrowed time with that ,so it will be replaced soon. When it does, I'll probably modify the plumbing so that it's incorporated into the closed loop freshwater circuit. Again, we don't push the engine hard for long stretches so overheating isn't an issue.
Therein is the dilemma. Is it prudent to spend $7-800 for an aftercooler housing & another $8-900 for an exhaust manifold (parts only) to keep a 40 year old engine going? That's almost 2 grand that would be a good start towards a later model engine. For us, it's the easy route to keep bolting on the new parts as long as the core engine is running so well.
If one can be choosy, I agree, Deere or Cummins all the way.
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Old 10-04-2018, 11:18 AM   #23
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Everyone has their favourites and who are we to dispute their choice, but it can appear to be confusing for the nontechnical.We all have horror stories of some individual engine but these a not to be taken as gospel because we rarely hear the full unexpurgated story.

A little bit of background to clear up the confusion over engine rotation.
Perkins took over Rolls-Royce diesels at Crewe in England where I served some time on secondment from the army on R&D.
When Rolls had an engine block cast it had the unique feature of the working parts being able to be fitted to run either l/h or r/h rotation from either end of the block. They were the only engine to be painted inside which was to stop any little bits of the casting sand embedded in the cast coming loose and causing any damage.
The reason for the option of l/h or r/h rotation was because when fitting the Rolls diesels in military vehicles many were not fitted in conventional layouts, generally because the need for low profile armour, consequently it wasn't always possible to get a gearbox to suit and it was therefore easier to change the rotation of the engine.
In the marine world many gearboxes offered only one choice of rotation 'off the shelf', in those circumstances to get contra rotating props on a twin it was far easier to fit engines with different rotations. As you have found out already there are very few parts that are different despite having different part numbers so there's no need to be afraid as long as you mark the engine rotation clearly to avoid any confusion.

You may be surprised that one such engine block originally designed by Rolls-Royce to run left right or end over was the Rolls-Royce 'Eagle' diesel engine which originally came in either 265 or 290 hp, when Perkins took over Rolls they simply gave its output in their brochures, later Caterpillar took over Perkins and that same block tweaked a bit here and there, mostly around the head is now called the Caterpillar C19 engine.
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Old 10-04-2018, 11:44 AM   #24
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Great insights.

As an aside, much of this thread is devoted to Perkins marine diesels from a few generations ago. Today's Perkins Sabres are emissions compliant, long absent the dreaded manicooler and a compact 4 or 6 cylinder unit in the 90 to 300 HP range.

Hundreds of thousands of Perkins non marine diesels are made every year carrying the badges of various "builders." About 60 years ago Massey Ferguson owned Perkins, then went to Lucas and finally Cat for the past 20 years.
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Old 10-04-2018, 12:19 PM   #25
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IR

Great insights.

As an aside, much of this thread is devoted to Perkins marine diesels from a few generations ago. Today's Perkins Sabres are emissions compliant, long absent the dreaded manicooler and a compact 4 or 6 cylinder unit in the 90 to 300 HP range.

Hundreds of thousands of Perkins non marine diesels are made every year carrying the badges of various "builders." About 60 years ago Massey Ferguson owned Perkins, then went to Lucas and finally Cat for the past 20 years.
Yes ,Mine has the manicooler and I'm sure it's just a short matter of time before having to replace it.
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Old 10-04-2018, 12:57 PM   #26
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There were 20,000hrs. on my Perkins HT6-354 when I rebuilt it. It has since been to Bahamas twice and Honduras twice from Toronto. I buy all my parts at Farm equipment dealers since they are subsidized and don't have the dreaded "marine" markup. 6-354's in all their versions are all over North America as farm equipment and generator engines.
New fuel injector pump for 4-236 at marine cost around $2,000.00 or more:
https://shop.perkins.com/parts/fuel-...njection-pumps

I found my replacement in a similar site as this:
Ford/New Holland Injection Pumps

The difference between the two comparables,was found after I purchased and installed. The original pump on the engine was rated at 3800 RPM. the replacement tractor pump is rated to 2200 RPM. So I am restricted for achieving the rated RPM of the engine.
Am I concerned? Heck no- As our engine is overproped with a maximum RPM of 2400 RPM and we run at 1600 RPM the fact that the fuel is restricted is of no consequence. The price difference is unbelievable.
In asking why the price of our replacement pump is in the $500-600 dollar range when seeing the marine versions at the higher cost, I was informed that the supplier built their pumps new, in Poland.
With the reputation of classic machine works of Poland, I was further impressed.

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Old 10-04-2018, 09:11 PM   #27
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Sunchaser, some of those other 'marque's' you mentioned are Case, David Brown and small Volvo's up to 40 hp.
Among diesel aficionados' in the UK the Perkins 6354 and its smaller brother the 4236 (the both use the same pistons, liners etc) are regarded as the benchmark of diesels.
There are tweaks on later variants (not strictly necessary for a marine engine) to make them emissions compliant. Agricultural suppliers usually have their own engineering shop suppliers for overhauling pumps and injectors and if they are given the engines use and parameters can set up the pump to suit.

Most marine diesels are supplied with a simple coarse wire gauze intake filter, if you take away that gauze filter and get a female aluminium adapter made to fit over the male engine intake with a small engine breather pipe welded into it, then fit some plastic non collapsible pipe and route it well away from the engine to a paper element air cleaner you will find that it cuts the engine noise by 15/20%.
You will also be surprised when you change the filter (once a year) how much dust/dirt it stops and this also is a factor towards a long engine life.

Its 4 am as I write this and if my explanation is not clear I'll lift the floorboards later when the admirals up out of bed and post a photo for you.
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Old 10-05-2018, 03:21 AM   #28
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OK the admirals up and the floorboards have been up and here are some photo's of the air cleaner modification and fuel pump spin on filter head conversion with built in priming pump that are I've fitted to my own boat.
A bit of dust you can see around the engine disproves earlier claims of oily Perkins engines.

Photo's 1&2.
The air filter mod.
You can see on the air intake where the old wire gauze filter was removed and the metal elbow made to replace it. I made it in aluminium with 4 slots cut into the male fitting so the large jubilee can clamp the female fitting airtight onto the intake manifold.
The engine breather uses the same short piece of rubber hose.
The hose leading away from the bottom of the mod is a wire reinforced (to stop it collapsing under vacuum) heat resistant flexible plastic and is routed to an air filter housing. I purchased a complete air filter housing from a scrapyard making sure it was suitable for a 3 litre engine so my 4236 would have sufficient flow. You can mount this filter body anywhere well away from the engine preferably near a vent to draw in clean air. This will cut down between 15 and 20 % of engine noise and ensure a clean supply of air to your engine.

Photo's.
3,4,5,6.
I always found CAV sandwich filters found on Perkins and Fords messy and a PITA, so when these conversion heads came on the market incorporating a heel of your hand pump I was right in there converting our engines.
You simply unbolt the old head, bolt on the replacement using the same mounting bolts.
You will need 3 extra banjo bolts and copper washers to refit the new filter head.
If you look closely at the bottom of the hand pump you can see the longer banjo bolt in pics 5 &number 6. 6.

To help you with links and part numbers I emailed my suppliers this morning and posted his reply is in photo/Snip below photo's.

If you're changing a fuel filter using the spin-on conversion head the method is as follows.

1, Start the engine and run it until just warm.( It helps starting again after the filter change).

2, Remove the old spin-on filter with suitable absorbent rags/plastic bag to catch any fuel spills/drips.

3, Fill the new spin-on filter full to the brim with fuel, wet the rubber sealing ring with fuel, carefully replace the full spin-on filter and hand tighten only.

4, Clean the area thoroughly of any spills/drips.

5, Start the engine on and run about 800 rpm, as soon as the engine is running, quickly pump the button on top of the filter housing until the engine runs smoothly.
With a bit of practice you'll never need to bleed the engine again when changing fuel filters.

6, Now give a good squirt of lemon scented washing up liquid into your bilge, this will emulsify any oil droplets in the bilge and be acceptable for pumping over board as well as killing any smell of diesel caused during your fuel change.

I hope you find this helpful to stress free filter changes.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:46 AM   #29
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https://www.popyachts.com/trawlers-f...nnessee-155523

The engines that inspired my original post are the Perkins 4.236ís in this Prairie trawler here. We had a 36 MT Sundeck for 7 years with a Ford Lehman. I loved the Lehman and learned on it. It is a simple motor. With this boat linked, I like the idea of twin four-bangers. Allows redundancy and low fuel consumption because my notion is to go far and consume lightly.
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:16 AM   #30
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https://www.popyachts.com/trawlers-f...nnessee-155523

The engines that inspired my original post are the Perkins 4.236ís in this Prairie trawler here. We had a 36 MT Sundeck for 7 years with a Ford Lehman. I loved the Lehman and learned on it. It is a simple motor. With this boat linked, I like the idea of twin four-bangers. Allows redundancy and low fuel consumption because my notion is to go far and consume lightly.



That's my idea but I am comfortable with a single diesel of known quality and good maintenace records.
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Old 10-05-2018, 12:16 PM   #31
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Like you I'm comfortable with a single diesel and have covered thousands of miles without any problems.
The info I gave in the previous post about CAV spin-on filter modification and fitting an air filter applies to all engines including the 4108's, believe me you'll appreciate the difference.
Incidentally the 4108's are fitted to a Massey Ferguson 35 tractors (as well as gensets/forklifts etc) if you need parts at a good price.
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