Not So Slow Boat for Puget/Desolation Sound

[rsn48]

A friend just put in an offer on a Nordic Tug 34 and I went with him on his second appraisel pre-offer. I agree with the hard and soft requirements. Washing clothing at a marina is no big deal, you get to meet people and the machines are larger getting more clothes done in one shot. With the Nordic Tug I viewed, getting two desk areas isn't a big deal either.

I agree that Nordic (and Ranger) Tugs are very suited for the PNW and all points north. One of the three owners of Slowboat, a company taking flottilas of nervous nellies up to Alaska from Seattle, owns an NT 37. If you go to the Slowboat website you will gets lots of excellent tips in traversing the waters of the Salish Sea and North. I strongly suspect the border will still be closed next summer, but after that you should be good to go into BC.

So what do you want in a boat designed for our waters. Well you want something you can use in the off season - he/she who uses their boat more gets more play value per dollar. Boats sitting for 8 months in Washington and BC waters is a crazy waste of money. I'm typing this on my boat in Comox, even if I don't go out, I will stay on it for 4 - 7 days at a time.

You want:

1. A good heating system so you can be at anchor or a marina and still be warm and toasty.
2. Preferably a bimini and soft walls so that area can be used during some of the extended rain we receive.
3. A boat that due to its length and width (think power cats here for width) aren't a problem to fit into a marina. Most of the marina's in our area (your area) are older so shorter boats are more the norm in them.
4. The ability to be on the hook and have enough power to manage what you have without a generator going. Many are trying to reduce or eliminate the need for a generator. Yours neighbours on the water wish the same thing for you. This goal is very doable with solar, quality batteries, etc.
5. And of course, a boat that gives you lots of joy.

 

[NowhereHome]

Washing clothing at a marina is no big deal, you get to meet people and the machines are larger getting more clothes done in one shot.

We had a nice charter in a boat with one, and have tried RVs with them. Not having to deal with bags of quarters, broken machines, machines used by someone with Huskies/long hair cats before us, and just spending more time on the boat makes it enough of a plus for us that I'd give up cockpit or interior space if I can make one happen.

So what do you want in a boat designed for our waters. Well you want something you can use in the off season - he/she who uses their boat more gets more play value per dollar. Boats sitting for 8 months in Washington and BC waters is a crazy waste of money. I'm typing this on my boat in Comox, even if I don't go out, I will stay on it for 4 - 7 days at a time.

You want:

1. A good heating system so you can be at anchor or a marina and still be warm and toasty.
2. Preferably a bimini and soft walls so that area can be used during some of the extended rain we receive.
3. A boat that due to its length and width (think power cats here for width) aren't a problem to fit into a marina. Most of the marina's in our area (your area) are older so shorter boats are more the norm in them.
4. The ability to be on the hook and have enough power to manage what you have without a generator going. Many are trying to reduce or eliminate the need for a generator. Yours neighbours on the water wish the same thing for you. This goal is very doable with solar, quality batteries, etc.
5. And of course, a boat that gives you lots of joy.

1) The heating system is a big deal, that also is a reason that I'd be happy if we can make something smaller work. Trying to heat a 45'+ boat with tons of windows, three state rooms, a pilot house, etc... becomes a chore. If I could have my pick, I'd have both reverse cycle as well as Diesel heat for redundancy and being able to use whichever power source is more available. I haven't yet found the boat with 2" of foam insulation yet either.

2) For the bimini, I'd prefer a hardtop over the cockpit and either have or install as much solar as possible. This addresses #4 as well and is part of the draw of the greenline boats for me.

3) This is a key requirement for us - the dog needs exercise twice a day or finds its own exercise, and is also isn't likely to go on a potty patch or whatever. Outside COVID being in the Marina is a generally a better social experience than sitting on the hook and watching someone drag into you

4) We prefer solar and efficient use of electricity, but sometimes we'll probably need some sort of generator to charge the banks when WA solar panels see maybe 10% efficiency on some days due to amount of light, hours of light, angle, and darker skies. But I'd rather install the solar myself than have to reseal the hull...

5) What boat doesnt?

 

[Mike3034]

If you like Nordic Tugs, take a look at American Tug's 395.

 

[Robster_in_edmonds]

Well, since every boat is a compromise.. I say 40' is the wrong number to get stuck on. My Bayliner 4788, and its sister the Meridian 490, is worth a look. Remove the bow pulpit and you have a 50' boat and I have yet to find a marina that cannot accommodate us.

It checks off all of your other boxes. Dual interior work spaces, washer/dryer, great economy at 9 knots or under, capable of 16-19 knots when up on plane. Probably the best pilothouse to run the boat from in any boat under 60 feet I have been in. Before you slag Bayliners, this was built in their yacht facility in Arlington and it is a great boat.

Engine access is fantastic if you enjoy crawling around on your hands and knees, have two elbows on each arm, and have a side gig as a contortionist (sort of kidding). Cummins engines = awesomeness.

It's the most-popular selling yacht in the PNW for a reason.

 

[thataway]

We cruised the PNW to AK for 4 seasons (April thru Oct) in a Cal 46. Never had any problem finding a slip, if we wanted one. For more popular destinations in the Broughtons, we arrived a day or so early, and got reservations. Many marinas have side ties for beamy catamarans.

We had two Labrador retrievers and had no problems dinghying them ashore 3 to 5 times a day, including the night time last stop. We also did the PNW two summers in a C Dory 25, with smaller dogs.

The comparison of the two was that with the faster C Dory (17 knot to 20 knot cruise speed if necessary) we could make 2 to 3 "passes" a day, and not worry if we had a 4 to 6 knot current against us at some point. With the displacement hull, and a max cruising speed of 8 knots, generally only one pass a day was possible, and we had to time it "right".

Heating was best accomplished with diesel fired hydronic circulating water systems, with radiators, in each area. We retrofitted warm pipes for towels in the head and in hanging lockers for foul weather gear). Each area can be selectively warmed as necessary. A "mud room" type of area in the cockpit which is covered is almost a necessity.

We have had boats with separate washer and dryers, and the single unit like Splendide. The latter are small load washers, and very slow drying (best if vented overboard). You will also use a fair amount of water for washer dryers. Even with the washer/dryer aboard, we would often do loads in the commercial laundries which are along the way (almost everywhere). We enjoyed having a 240 gallon per day water-maker, especially when in more remote areas.

I might consider something like the PDQ 34--shorter boat, but it has the room for two tables/desks, you could put a washer dryer in the other stateroom, as well as a second desk. Huge amount of area in main salon, flying bridge etc. Plus very economical at 8 knots and will do 14 knots when necessary.

I always leave 25% of purchase price for upgrades when I buy a "new" used boat. There are always "surprises" and electronics upgrades. For semi remote cruising you want many necessary spares. Plenty of places where you cannot call "Boat US"--so twins, or secondary propulsion, such as a kicker to get you to a safe area.

I agree that there are lots of "features" on the various "tug" imitations. The 30' is going to be a fairly small boat--not much room for "separation". Even with a great marriage, you still want to have some "separate space".

Good hunting and great cruising grounds.

 

[Salish Nomad]

Otherwise known as the Salish Sea. While we usually are fine going slow, we want something that can also pick up the pace when needed.

We've chartered a bunch of boats, took a 10 year break from the water and are looking back. Done everything from sail to trawler to motoryacht.

• 15+ Kts capable - sometimes just have a place to be
• Great efficiency 6-7 kts
• At least two separate spaces where work can be done
• Less than 40' overall (finding slips gets rough over that, and we like docking as the dog wants land 3+ times a day)
• Great visibility from an indoor helm
• Diesel, with diesel heat. Probably a single diesel.
• Room for washer/dryer would be great
• BONUS: can have two desks (they could be small) in it or at least room for an office chair on the table in the salon for "work from wherever" days

Price: $300k or less, cheap is good

What looks good/not so good so far
Aspen Cats - like cats in general, the only downside is they really don't have much room or event separate spaces.

Bayliner 3587 - Quality is "meh", engine room is not great, but they pack a lot of living space into the small boat. Could probably achieve desk in front cabin and salon (in place of sofas), along with washer/dryer in the coffin cabin. Economy sucks.

Nordic Tug 39 - great economy, guest state room could be made into office, washer could also go there or in the galley. Maybe the frontrunner?

Greenline 39/40 - electric cruise sounds nice, especially for going through the locks. Diesel economy is great, especially on the 39 with a single, the 40 does well for a twin screw. Comes with decent solar/battery banks which could mean a lot less need for generator or refits. I like how the cockpit flows into the Salon. Hardtop over the cockpit is well appreciated.

Any other additions?

I have seen listings for American Tugs that meet all of your requirements including price.

 

[Mischief]

We had 2 lists. One for the things we definitely did not want, i.e. teak decks, etc. and things we really wanted. Our 37 Uniflite came with a washer dryer already installed. a gift! Twin Lehmans, 3.4 gph total at 8.5 knots.

 

[Ruffryder]

Ranger Tug 41 is fairly new @ $1 MIL.
American Tug 395 & Nordic Tug 37 are available in the PNW.
Meridian 368, 381, 391, then
cheaper Bayliner models to choose from under 40' as you mentioned like 3587, 3788, 3988.
Many Older quality built boats made here locally like Uniflite & Tollycraft.
Our LOA is slightly over 50'.
Every time we cruise to Port of Poulsbo, we are always sticking out. At Bremerton they let me stick out +20', just because I choose to dock in front of Anthony's & many occasions at Bell harbor when we don't get to reserve their 50' + docks.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

People like to discount/talk down Bayliners, and yes, Brunswick has some things to answer for, but they and their close sisters do make creative and efficient use of space. I've owned two despite coming into both deals with trepidation - they both served us very well for the use for which they were intended, and provided more interior and cockpit room than any vessel of that particular length ought to be able to The one we had growing up likewise gave us no real issues either. I'm a little fascinated by the 4788, it wasn't really the boat I was originally looking for going into our search for a liveaboard class displacement trawler, but I would like to get onboard one some time.

 

[Baker]

I'm a little fascinated by the 4788, it wasn't really the boat I was originally looking for going into our search for a liveaboard class displacement trawler, but I would like to get onboard one some time.

Just know that it is not a displacement boat. I think you probably know that. They do have a nice sea kindly hull though. Many are powered to cruise easily in the teens. Obviously, if one is trying to conserve fuel, it is also a great boat at displacement speeds.

 

[NowhereHome]

A Greenline 39 or 40 for $300k? Hmmm. Also, which of the three marinas allows liveaboards? I know Shilshole does (long waiting list) but what about the other two? Going beyond the three Marinas you mention are otheRt that do allow overhangs. Bremerton has direct ferry service to down town Seattle and Port Orchard has or will be starting passenger ferry service with, as I understand it, free parking on the Port Orchard side...

Greenline - assuming not blistering or whatever - would be willing to put more into for something that comes with 10s of kWh of batteries and 1000s of W of Solar - as that would be $$$ saved later.

We're not looking for liveaboard status, occasional water condo. We have a house in Seattle and one in the SJs.

Well, since every boat is a compromise.. I say 40' is the wrong number to get stuck on. My Bayliner 4788, and its sister the Meridian 490, is worth a look. Remove the bow pulpit and you have a 50' boat and I have yet to find a marina that cannot accommodate us.

It checks off all of your other boxes. Dual interior work spaces, washer/dryer, great economy at 9 knots or under, capable of 16-19 knots when up on plane. Probably the best pilothouse to run the boat from in any boat under 60 feet I have been in. Before you slag Bayliners, this was built in their yacht facility in Arlington and it is a great boat.

Engine access is fantastic if you enjoy crawling around on your hands and knees, have two elbows on each arm, and have a side gig as a contortionist (sort of kidding). Cummins engines = awesomeness.

It's the most-popular selling yacht in the PNW for a reason.

Bayliner 45 was my favorite boat as a kid. For us it's too much room. We like small/efficient. On our multi-month camping trips, we enjoy the fact that we can vacuum/mop the entire place in 5 minutes.

 

[yarradeen]

How to prevent next time? Monitoring, I have been experimenting with a monitoring project for a while. Currently running on a mini computer (raspberry pi). every 15 seconds it stores temps of sensors located around the engine. This data is stored in a database. Once in the database there is long term data and you can spot issues before them become major. I then display them as a webpage in the cockpit. Currently I manually average and graph the long term data in excel at home, but am building to towards automatic alarming based on anomalous behaviour. When I get motivation to do work type stuff away from work..

The biggest learning curve involved reliable networking of 1wire sensors that read the temps around then engine.

 

[Poach]

We have a 1994 Sabreline (Sabre) Fastrawler. They are very well made Maine boats. Sabre made this boat until the late 90s or early 2000s. I think the largest is a 47, but there are 43s and ours is a 36. Our previous boat was a Meridian 490 but as someone else said, we did not need that much boat. We can get 20+Kts at about 80% of WOT but typically cruise at about 10-12. I think they all can pretty much do that. You burn more fuel, but when you look at the fuel curves for both MPG and GPH at various speeds, you can make your own call about trade offs between time and money. It is nice to have a boat where I have speed choices suitable to changing seas and weather. Someone mentioned they are not plentiful and in the PNW I’d say that is accurate, but they do turn up. I found ours on Yachtworld. I know that a 1995 43 sold here in Seattle this year. There are a more on the east coast. Have fun sorting out all the advice.

 

[NowhereHome]

After a few more charters and tours of boats, we've updated our list:

• 15+ Kts capable - sometimes just have a place to be
• Great efficiency 6-7 kts
• At least two separate spaces where work can be done
• Less than [STRIKE]40'[/STRIKE]45' overall (finding slips gets rough over that, and we like docking as the dog wants land 3+ times a day)
• Great visibility from an indoor helm
• Diesel, with diesel heat. Probably a single diesel. Twins OK if they have great access
• Room for washer/dryer would be great
• [STRIKE]BONUS: can have two desks (they could be small) in it or at least room for an office chair on the table in the salon for "work from wherever" days[/STRIKE] Need place for two ~48" desks
• Walkaround decks with railings
• at least one door from helm to outside.
• Two cabins, master ideally not in V, and bed should not face the room's exist (Wifey's Feng shui)

So far the American Tug 41/435 leads the way. Symbol 50, though over length could work if we turned the master cabin bed.

 

[Ruffryder]

AT 43 is nice!
Although she's bigger than your list, my buddy is selling his Angel 48 PH in Gig Harbor.
Also take a look at Helmsman 38 & 43.
BTW, 4 yrs waiting list on Port Orchard, 5 yrs Bremerton, Shilshol's waiting list is so long, you can't even get on.

 

[OldDan1943]

When I talked to Kurt at American Tug recently, no used AT at the company dock.
There is a waiting list of at least one year but check with Kurt. Maybe someone changed their mind about their purchase.