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Old 04-11-2018, 07:30 PM   #21
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Further bad news... all holding tanks will require a wifi connection and dedicated facebook account for data collection. I would provide the link but I know Nobridge Analytica has already penetrated this site. :>0
So THAT'S where all the crap on facebook comes from.... my holding tank.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:17 PM   #22
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Fortunately, the change only effects a relatively small number of recreational boats in Puget Sound. Unfortunately, it is a big hit to those boat owners. They invested a fair amount of money for a treatment system, but now they cant use it in WA waters. For some of them it will be expensive to modify the boat to comply with the NDZ.

Fortunately it's ONLY the Sound, Lake Union and Lake Washington that are now an NDZ, not all WA waters. Treatment devices are still legal in Strait and the San Juans. However, the total number of boats nationwide that have 'em has never exceeded 5% of boats with toilets.

Btw...just discovered that WA hasn't even been added to the EPA list of NDZs yet.

Peggie

Initially, I think they were looking at the San Juans and the Strait as well. Glad they elected not to. OTOH, I, like many of my fellow WA boaters, feel pretty free to discharge overboard once in the Strait on an outgoing tide.

Interesting that the NDZ has not been published... in my limited understanding you cant have an NDZ unless the Feds designate it.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:25 PM   #23
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This is really no news. As stated earlier recreational boats have been using holding tanks and pump outs for years. There are no water cops up here. The coast guard/home land security is the only authority that can board your boat and they have no budget for state law enforcement.


Not quite true I dont think. Municipal and county police can board and enforce laws. Ive been boarded by Olympia police and received citations for violations for state registration laws. (Very professional, helpful, polite, and I was completely in the wrong. I corrected the deficiency and Olympia reversed the citation.)

Also, if it is declared a NDZ then it is a federal regulation that the USCG is very happy to enforce when they do a routine boarding.

FWIW, I was boarded by the USCG on my way back from Canada and didnt yet have my thru hulls secured. They kindly secured it for me and got on with business. As Ive mentioned before, Im a USCG fanboy.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:18 PM   #24
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Unfortunately, I think the San Juans ARE included. Verbatum from the WA law:

All the marine waters of Washington state inward from the line between New Dungeness Lighthouse (N 4810'54.454", 12306'37.004" W) and the Discovery Island Lighthouse (N 4825'26.456", 12313'29.554" W) to the Canadian border (intersecting at: N 4820'05.782", 12311'58.636" W), and fresh waters of Lake Washington, Lake Union, and connecting waters between and to Puget Sound.

That's everything until you cross the line out into the Strait of JDF.
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Old 04-11-2018, 10:20 PM   #25
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Thats bullshit. Municipalities can dump millions of gallons of raw sewage into the sound with impunity every time there is a major storm or equipment malfunction. But a recreational vessel with a treatment system that pumps clean water overboard must now secure the system so it is inoperable? Why not fix the real polluters first? Wonder who has the bigger lobbyist budget?
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Old 04-11-2018, 11:54 PM   #26
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Unfortunately, I think the San Juans ARE included. Verbatum from the WA law:

All the marine waters of Washington state inward from the line between New Dungeness Lighthouse (N 4810'54.454", 12306'37.004" W) and the Discovery Island Lighthouse (N 4825'26.456", 12313'29.554" W) to the Canadian border (intersecting at: N 4820'05.782", 12311'58.636" W), and fresh waters of Lake Washington, Lake Union, and connecting waters between and to Puget Sound.

That's everything until you cross the line out into the Strait of JDF.
Sure looks that way to me as well. North to the CN border it says. That means the SJ's. I like the idea of just putting the valve in the closed position and taking off the handle. Simple.
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Old 04-12-2018, 12:37 AM   #27
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A link to the Washington site https://ecology.wa.gov/DOE/files/9a/...e742e558af.pdf
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:36 AM   #28
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So, if I take off the handle, how can they tell if it's closed? Oh, Seattle did drop OVER a BILLION, YES BILLION GALLONS OF SEWAGE when the West Point Treatment Plant flooded in 2017. That is the equivalent of 50 Million of my 20 gallon holding tanks of crap.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:00 AM   #29
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Wondering ... what are the "poop" policies of the Canadian government?

I have the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that Canadian pollution requirements (not just boats but industrial also) are less restrictive than the USA.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:12 AM   #30
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Just having a little fun. And I just renewed my Sierra Club membership - member since 1973
I gave up on Sierra Club when it became freaky in the late nineteen sixties when it abandoned its original mission (preserving and enjoying the Sierra Nevada mountain range) to limiting urban life.
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Old 04-12-2018, 10:47 AM   #31
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Wondering ... what are the "poop" policies of the Canadian government?

I have the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that Canadian pollution requirements (not just boats but industrial also) are less restrictive than the USA.
From Seattle PI:

Victoria and neighboring cities have finally approved a regional sewage treatment plant, after 25 years of conflict over British Columbia's touristy capital dumping raw sewage into the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

The Capital Regional District, long a center of resistance to treatment, voted Wednesday for a $765 million (Canadian) plant to be built at McLoughlin Point in Esquimalt, just west of Victoria. It is slated to be complete by 2020.

The municipalities had to act or faced loss of Canadian government funding. "I'm feeling very relieved the region will get the project it deserves," Victoria Mayor Lisa Helps, who chairs the CRD's sewage committee, told the Times Colonist.

The relief extends across the Strait of Juan de Fuca. Such American cities as Port Angeles, Sequim and Port Townsend were required to install secondary sewage treatment in the 1970s.

The Victoria area continued to dump 34 million gallons of raw sewage into the Strait each day. Officials were adamant with their basic line of defense: The solution to pollution is dilution. The Strait of Juan de Fuca was depicted as a giant toilet that would flush away any environmental damage.


Our boat is one of those impacted by this change. The PO had a SanX installed in the bow as a workaround to the failing SS holding tank under the head sole (replacement would require significant joinery removal/refit).

We had already planned to remove the old tank (cutting it out) and replacing the SanX with a bow tank but this NDZ implementation accelerates that project.
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:09 AM   #32
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Sure looks that way to me as well. North to the CN border it says. That means the SJ's. I like the idea of just putting the valve in the closed position and taking off the handle. Simple.

For what it's worth, we have lived with this for decades on the east coast where virtually everything inside of 3 miles is NDZ. You adapt just fine. I found closing the valve and removing the handle worked fine. You just need to remember to reopen before pumping.
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:16 AM   #33
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the only major NDZs on the East Coast from the Chesapeake south are the lower parts of North Carolina and the Florida Keys.

A few small NDZs also exist but are usually a small river or bay.

The rest of the coast inside of 3 mile is just no raw sewage can be dumped.

The only reall issue is with small vesels with Type 1 MSDs. If they went ahead and plumbed their boat that way with only a small holding tank, it can be an issue finding or getting to a pumpout. An inconvenience that they chose to spend the money not to deal with.
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:23 AM   #34
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I gave up on Sierra Club when it became freaky in the late nineteen sixties when it abandoned its original mission (preserving and enjoying the Sierra Nevada mountain range) to limiting urban life.
Yep, I don't necessarily disagree with you there, but I'm still a loyal member - and will be completing the JMT this fall (had to come off early last Sept due to illness back home). We got from Yosemite to VVR. Will pick up there and head south to Whitney this Sep.
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:58 AM   #35
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No Discharge Zones

Interesting. I was under the impression that only the Federal Government (EPA) could declare any waters to be No Discharge Zones. I see references to Washington State Law but nothing has, to date, been listed in the Federal Register nor the Federal list of No Discharge Zones. Has the EPA actually approved Washington's request to make Puget Sound a No Discharge Zone or are they still in the process of applying for such?
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Old 04-12-2018, 12:27 PM   #36
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Sticking with the argument that the 3 mile limit is "magical", nearly all of Puget Sound is within the 3 mile limit. Straits of Juan de Fuca not so.

As to the question of BC recreational boating poop policies? It seems well thought out by rational people. Many areas are and have been deemed NDZ. They are clearly labeled as such on the charts and Parks literature.

Washington's politicians have not been kind towards recreational boaters. It will only get worse for oh so many reasons.
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:02 PM   #37
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On the east coast of the US, we all know, poop pumped overboard magically goes out to sea, never to be seen again.

On the east coast, we have a Sargasso Sea of seaweed, another of plastic and now, one of poop.
If someone can figure out how to economically harvest and melt down the plastic while at sea, will become a very wealthy person/corporation.
This will never be permitted on the west coast because of the emissions emitted during the milting process. Calif will make an arbitrary ruling of the possibility the emissions will come into Calif territorial waters when there is an on shore wind so they must be more than regulated, they must be taxes and or band.
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Old 04-12-2018, 01:12 PM   #38
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Maybe I missed it, but I'm wondering if the NDZ regulations allow discharge of grey water? Soapy shower water, soapy dishwater....
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:07 PM   #39
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Interesting. I was under the impression that only the Federal Government (EPA) could declare any waters to be No Discharge Zones. I see references to Washington State Law but nothing has, to date, been listed in the Federal Register nor the Federal list of No Discharge Zones. Has the EPA actually approved Washington's request to make Puget Sound a No Discharge Zone or are they still in the process of applying for such?

I'm assuming Yes, and that the publications just haven't caught up yet. WA applied for the NDZ some time ago and it was discussed here. For or against it, that was the time to get incensed, not after it's all done.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:10 PM   #40
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Maybe I missed it, but I'm wondering if the NDZ regulations allow discharge of grey water? Soapy shower water, soapy dishwater....

There is no regulation of gray water, only poop.
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