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Old 05-06-2021, 07:55 AM   #10181
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"Huge rudder. Imagine when the more that large plate is swung considerably to one side or the other that prop wash might at least somewhat work for turning the boat. Higher rpm probably makes for more turning wash. Lower rpm not so much; but, at idle with twins and thruster maneuvering should still be relatively easy. I would not like to handle that boat with single center rudder and out side props in a dangerous following sea. And... 5 blade props??? prop efficiency decreases per number of blades. Wonder if the turn-handling problems has owner try different props in search of best combo of outside duals for single center rudder?"

We have a friend with the same setup, twins on a single rudder. He can put that boat where guys like me with twins and twin rudders fear to go. He admitted to a learning curve when the boat was new to him, but very quickly overcame it. That was before he put in a bow thruster. Now there is nothing that discourages him.
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Old 05-08-2021, 05:11 PM   #10182
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Old 05-08-2021, 10:27 PM   #10183
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Very round bottoms...For the young at heart!!
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Old 05-09-2021, 12:20 PM   #10184
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58’ William Garden, built 1952. Single articulating fishtail rudder, twin Lugger’s 165hp each, 30” wheels. Steadiest on track boat I ever steered. Quiet, no fuss, slippery Click image for larger version

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Old 05-09-2021, 12:53 PM   #10185
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Your gal has a nice arse.
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Old 05-09-2021, 01:21 PM   #10186
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Beautiful boat!!!
If I had a 58ft boat, I could empty my storeroom and devote a closet to my sweetie.
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Old 05-09-2021, 01:35 PM   #10187
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'cap, how effective is the articulated rudder tab?
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Old 05-09-2021, 01:40 PM   #10188
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58’ William Garden, built 1952. Single articulating fishtail rudder, twin Lugger’s 165hp each, 30” wheels. Steadiest on track boat I ever steered. Quiet, no fuss, slippery Attachment 117563

Attachment 117564

Attachment 117565
t c - Your boat has my heart!

In regard to your many experiences... How does she track in slow forward
speed, respond in reverse and handle during following seas? The first two I'm confident are muchly taken care of by alternating propeller propulsion directions and rpm. The third I believe would be somewhat automatically accommodated due to her slicing stern design. However, if a breach were to begin... that enormous articulating rudder do the trick of straightening her back up?

I respectfully ask these questions simply because I've never handled a design such as yours with twins to the sides and rudder in center. She is beautiful and was born same year as me!
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Old 05-09-2021, 02:48 PM   #10189
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t c - Your boat has my heart!

In regard to your many experiences... How does she track in slow forward
speed, respond in reverse and handle during following seas? The first two I'm confident are muchly taken care of by alternating propeller propulsion directions and rpm. The third I believe would be somewhat automatically accommodated due to her slicing stern design. However, if a breach were to begin... that enormous articulating rudder do the trick of straightening her back up?

I respectfully ask these questions simply because I've never handled a design such as yours with twins to the sides and rudder in center. She is beautiful and was born same year as me!

That rudder is big enough that the limited prop wash over it shouldn't be much of an issue handling wise. And if turned far enough, it'll defect some wash from one of the props anyway.
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Old 05-09-2021, 03:23 PM   #10190
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'cap, how effective is the articulated rudder tab?
Going strait, 8-9 knots, the auto pilot adjusts in very small amounts. I suspect a one degree rudder angle is accentuated by the tail flap: video of the rudder in action.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...78Sdu13nwzIKbA
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Old 05-09-2021, 03:37 PM   #10191
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UOTE=Art;1003073]t c - Your boat has my heart!

In regard to your many experiences... How does she track in slow forward
speed, respond in reverse and handle during following seas?at 61 tons I idle in neutral a lot in close quarters and she responds just fine down to a knot. I want to add a jog stick, hyd. A with power assist idling a big wheel is more work than fun. Reverse? No boat steers in reverse, using strait rudder and props I get around fine in reverse. Following seas I have yet to enjoy, I have reports it tracks like a train m The first two I'm confident are muchly taken care of by alternating propeller propulsion directions and rpm. The third I believe would be somewhat automatically accommodated due to her slicing stern design. However, if a breach were to begin... that enormous articulating rudder do the trick of straightening her back up?

I respectfully ask these questions simply because I've never handled a design such as yours with twins to the sides and rudder in center. She is beautiful and was born same year as me![/QUOTE]
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Old 05-09-2021, 03:42 PM   #10192
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Twins with plenty of prop walk steer just fine in reverse. Just have to get used to ignoring the rudder(s). Leave them centered and only steer with the engines. If you want to turn, take one engine out of gear and you'll turn that direction. To turn tighter, give a kick of forward thrust on that engine and the turn will tighten.
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Old 05-09-2021, 05:48 PM   #10193
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Twins with plenty of prop walk steer just fine in reverse. Just have to get used to ignoring the rudder(s). Leave them centered and only steer with the engines. If you want to turn, take one engine out of gear and you'll turn that direction. To turn tighter, give a kick of forward thrust on that engine and the turn will tighten.
That’s it right there. Just start backward and see what she wants, adjust direction with props while you continue backing��
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Old 05-09-2021, 06:18 PM   #10194
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Going strait, 8-9 knots, the auto pilot adjusts in very small amounts. I suspect a one degree rudder angle is accentuated by the tail flap: video of the rudder in action.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...78Sdu13nwzIKbA
t c - Thanks! I see how rudder articulation mechanism works... cool! I bet that well assists for propwash to throw beam of water helping to turn boat.

I imagine so the hinge and slide bar don't get gummed up by sea growth that fairly often the rudder should be thrown full over to each side. That's a use it or loose it situation...
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Old 05-09-2021, 06:44 PM   #10195
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++++++++However, if a breach were to begin... that enormous articulating rudder do the trick of straightening her back up?+++++++++

It will if you are on the ball. When in a following rough sea and the boat does not want to straighten up even with full wheel then a STRONG shot of engine power will push a BEEG stream of water past the rudder. Use it.

I am not talking about enough throttle to pick up a bunch of speed, but a quick strong shot of throttle and then back off to your normal revs.

My boat is quite different, a lot smaller, with essentially a planing hull and a flat transom so I do get pushed. Yours should not get pushed to that degree but if you feel the boat not responding use that throttle.
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:08 PM   #10196
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t c - Thanks! I see how rudder articulation mechanism works... cool! I bet that well assists for propwash to throw beam of water helping to turn boat.

I imagine so the hinge and slide bar don't get gummed up by sea growth that fairly often the rudder should be thrown full over to each side. That's a use it or loose it situation...
Yes, tolerance are loose probably for that reason, with no prop in front of this rudder, propwash does not effect steering. It actually one of the factors in the boat cruising so smooth, no turbulent water over the rudder ( no vibration)
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:16 PM   #10197
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++++++++However, if a breach were to begin... that enormous articulating rudder do the trick of straightening her back up?+++++++++

It will if you are on the ball. When in a following rough sea and the boat does not want to straighten up even with full wheel then a STRONG shot of engine power will push a BEEG stream of water past the rudder. Use it.

I am not talking about enough throttle to pick up a bunch of speed, but a quick strong shot of throttle and then back off to your normal revs.

My boat is quite different, a lot smaller, with essentially a planing hull and a flat transom so I do get pushed. Yours should not get pushed to that degree but if you feel the boat not responding use that throttle.
So many factors effect a boats behavior. If your vessel is overwhelmed from behind you will have to rely on my things you can’t control. Center of boyancy, center of gravity, bow shape and weight, if she’s balanced or not on the ends etc. angle of the overtaking seas,your speed, on and on. If she’s cranky and unstable by design, you neeed throttle and steering tricks. But those efforts are not as critical as the built in features. Down swell is the least stable course.
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:26 PM   #10198
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I can steer my Willard when backing from about 1.5 to 2.4 knots. But I can accurately steer the boat.
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:37 PM   #10199
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I can steer my Willard when backing from about 1.5 to 2.4 knots. Need to hold on tight to insure the rudder dos’nt flop over. That could cause some damage. But I can accurately steer the boat.
That’s the sweet balance shape giving you great performance.
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:40 PM   #10200
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Down swell is the least stable course.
Only for a slow boat. Once you can outrun the waves, down wind changes from unstable to a fast and fun rocket ride. In 4 footers, down wind is the fastest and most comfortable direction to run for my boat. Just set engines to max continuous and start a cycle of slow down and climb, pitch over, accelerate / surf, repeat. All in good comfort and with just a light touch on the wheel.
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