When things go to fast

[RonR]

So we bought our 33' egg harbor as our first big boat coming from a 24' sea ray. Its no trawler but what we like. Our plan was to buy the 33' and run it for two years, decide if we like bigger boats and go from there. If we love it we can go bigger, if we hate it or don't use it as much as we thought we would we can sell and not lose that much $$. Were about one year in from our initial search and 7 month from our buy date. We each love the boat life, I like the little projects and to do list, she loves everything about it from the planning to the trips. We spend a lot of time on the boat cleaning/fixing/entertaining/Fishing/Crabbing/booze cruses.

Anyhow there is a larger Egg harbor in our Marina, I know the owner and we have been talking. He is getting ready to down size and is interested in selling and even taking ours in on part trade.... This is something I was not even thinking about until late next year at the soonest. So now there is a mix of emotions running, are we going to fast, do we really like this life style, do we really want a boat loan? Will we continue to use a 48 as much as we do the 33? If we buy a 1978 boat with 8V-92's what will it be worth in 10-15 years when we are ready to get out. Is this $$ we are kissing good buy, or is this $$$ worth of memory's and experiences we will never get anywhere else? Its not a lot of $$ compared to a lot of boats this size, but the sport fisher is just not a big seller in the PNW. This boat is in fair to good shape for its age with many new options such as all new wiring, gen, batteries, interior/electronics. But is still old school with the 2- stroke Detroit's.

I have never been a big Detroit fan, but I know the engines well as the first engines I had ever rebuilt was a pair of 16V-92's. I know how to keep them running and I know what it takes to in-fame one. I also know that most people under 45 will have nothing to do with one given its noise/ fuel consumptions and oil leaks no matter how good of a job you think you did.

Thoughts? Am I moving to fast, wrong boat at the wrong time, or just jump at it as you only live once? The wife thinks its sexy and to do it. I'm scared I will end up with a huge project that I cant get ride of in 10 years even if I give it away. But dam its a cool ass boat.

I am 46 and I would consider this boat something on my list at age 60 not 47... It just seams like way too much way to fast, but I also know we are each at the point in our lives that we want to up-size or down-size. And if we can make it work, each of us would have it easy vs selling on the open market, trying to find the right boat and a place to keep it, really we would be moving two docks over each. One would end up with a clean boat and a lot of $$ in his pocket, the other would end up with a clean boat and a big ass loan...

Were getting ready for a 11 day trip on the little Egg next week, I don't think I will sleep much until I get on the big Egg on the 13th of July...

 

[BruceK]

"There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat. And we must take the current when it serves, or lose our ventures."
William Shakespeare
That`s what the Bard thought. But he wasn`t signing up for the "big ass loan". Having recently bought a 2005 boat very similar to the 1981 boat it replaced, and with current Cummins engines, I have a view. But you need to form your own. Do you really want a boat that big, with those engines? If you are an Egg enthusiast, you very well might. Someone else might not. Shakespeare seemed to know a thing or two, but maybe he just wrote well.

 

[ranger58sb]

We each love the boat life, I like the little projects and to do list, she loves everything about it from the planning to the trips. We spend a lot of time on the boat cleaning/fixing/entertaining/Fishing/Crabbing/booze cruses.

If we buy a 1978 boat with 8V-92's what will it be worth in 10-15 years when we are ready to get out. ...This boat is in fair to good shape for its age with many new options such as all new wiring, gen, batteries, interior/electronics. But is still old school with the 2- stroke Detroit's.

I have never been a big Detroit fan, but I know the engines well as the first engines I had ever rebuilt was a pair of 16V-92's.

The wife thinks its sexy and to do it. I'm scared I will end up with a huge project that I cant get ride of in 10 years even if I give it away. But dam its a cool ass boat.

I suspect you've almost answered your own quesions.

If you pay $$$ for a '78 boat now, it'll probably be worth $$$ minus about $1000 in 5 years if in the same or better condition.

-Chris

 

[O C Diver]

A question for you to ponder:

If you have an idea of the fuel consumption when normally operating the 48' boat, how high would the price of diesel have to go to crimp your use? You're talking about needing to get a loan to pay the difference on a 42 year old boat in fair condition.

IMO, you need to calculate the operating cost differences between the 2 boats. Dockage, insurance, fuel, haulout, and everything else are going to be significantly more expensive. Can you afford all that and the fuel to run the boat? This is like buying the old mansion, where the costs of maintenance are so great you can't afford the furniture.

Ted

 

[rslifkin]

I think Chris has it on the value thing. A boat of that age isn't going to change a lot in value unless the condition or onboard equipment changes significantly, or something happens to make that type of boat more or less desirable. You're likely in a similar state with the current boat, where you're almost at the size range where gas engines start to put a real cap on the value of the boat.

Fuel consumption wise, Detroits may not be the most efficient diesels, but in terms of fuel in vs power out, they'll still be significantly better than your current gassers. Chances are, at low speed, the 48 will burn a little less fuel, but due to being bigger and heavier, I'd expect it to burn a bit more when running on plane.

As far as usability, poke around the bigger boat and try to get a sense of systems complexity, ease of moving around for line handling, etc. compared to your current boat. Depending on how it's all laid out and what the systems are, you may find that it's not really much more of a big deal to operate, so you'd be just as likely to use it.

 

[RichardM]

Hi Ron. I have a 48 with 6v92s in my boat. yes the Detroits are a little less fuel efficient than the 4 stroke diesels but we're talking about 7-10% difference vs comparable size/hp engines. Owning a 48 compared to your 33 is a lot more expensive in marina, insurance, maintenance, etc. IMHO, fuel efficiency is negligible in the whole equation. On the other hand, those old school engines are super easy to rebuild and not that expensive if you can do it yourself. You seem to have a good knowledge of them and that's a plus. I'm less familiar with Eggs but I can tell you the old Hatteras from the 70s and 80s have a very high resale value and they all have Detroits. If it's in good shape and you keep it that way, I wouldn't be worried about resale value. Personally, I like the simplicity of those engines. They are a bit louder but I don't mind it since I don't sit on them when I'm at the helm (Flybridge only). Having a pilothouse type boat where the engines are right under you would probably be a problem. Parts are still widely available and at very decent prices. You should take the time to calculate the cost of ownership of a boat that size first. Not always easy to evaluate maintenance as it's very dependant on the condition of the boat but fixed fees (marina, storage, insurance, mortgage paiements, etc) and fuel is easy. Hope this helps [emoji4]

 

[GH41]

My brother had an early 80s Golden Egg 48 with 892s. After a 10-12 hour fishing trip it took hours to fill up. It wasn't hard to burn 600 gallons a day.

 

[caltexflanc]

After a 10-12 hour fishing trip it took hours to fill up. It wasn't hard to burn 600 gallons a day.

Those must have been the slowest diesel pumps in the USA. Seeing as we took about 20-30 minutes to put 900 gallons into our old Hatt 56MY with 8v92tii depending on the pump. Tell is what speed your brother was going, I'm guessing right at the pins.

Richard M makes many very good points. I disagree with this one, from years of personal experience'

Having a pilothouse type boat where the engines are right under you would probably be a problem

. At anything like trawler speeds, you could keep a normal level conversation at the lower helm and salon (which sat right above the engines) without raising your voice. So it depends on boat design. Noisy as all get out above idle speed in the ERs though. Beautiful exhaust note though.

As for the OP only you and yours can answer your very personal boating and financial questions. On the latter, remember you need to have a healthy reserve on hand for catastrophic occasions. But if you are thinking bigger, I would suggest expanding your horizons on boat brands and even styles.

You should look into Hatteras in particular because there is an outstanding support network comprised of the factory itself, their spun-off parts department, SAM's Marine, who in turn has tremendous knowledge right down to your hull number, who in turn hosts an outstanding owners forum of people who own vintage Hatts. All of which is virtually priceless. For instance, last I checked, you could still get copies of the as-builts and owner's manual (for a fee) of your hull number from the factory or SAM's, and those ARE priceless.

By the way, as you likely know, those 16v92's were literally two 8v92's bolted together. The shop manuals are still available and lots of parts on hand.

Good luck with your ruminations!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Decide in haste. Repent at your leisure...

 

[Codger2]

....... IMHO, fuel efficiency is negligible in the whole equation. On the other hand, those old school engines are super easy to rebuild and not that expensive if you can do it yourself. You seem to have a good knowledge of them and that's a plus. I'm less familiar with Eggs but I can tell you the old Hatteras from the 70s and 80s have a very high resale value and they all have Detroits. If it's in good shape and you keep it that way, I wouldn't be worried about resale value.]

I had a similar experience years ago on a 54' sport fisher. At the time I had a 38' sport fisher when the opportunity to move up to the 54 came along. The owner agreed to take my 38 in on trade with the balance paid in cash. The 54 had DDEC 8V92s and would really make the big boat fly and I fell in love with the whole concept. My wife, however, did not as this was a "man's boat" with very little appeal to women. The salon was very spacious without a lot of fluff like most women like. The staterooms (2) were very spacious and each had their own huge head with shower. The galley was up and against the wall in the salon (no island or peninsula) and the stairs were straight ahead so that you could just stroll down below. (No bends or 90 degree turns.) Fuel capacity was 1365 gallons in one baffled fiberglass tank on the centerline of the boat. The 8v92s were electronically controlled (DDECs) with all the fuel management one could wish for at the time. It was my dream boat & I forged ahead & bought it. The ER was so cavernous that I used to eat my lunch down there along side the chrome plated valve covers of the big DDECs. Everything maintenance wise had easy access and the walkway between the engines was carpeted. (BrightRed!)

Why do I take so much printed real estate to describe the boat of my dreams? it's because when the time came to sell it, I couldn't get one offer at any price and I had to do a sell/donate to get out from under it!

Had the wife been on board, I would probably still own it but instead am driving a 42' Ocean Alexander with a lot of "fluff. Don't get me wrong, I love the boat I have now but having the wife's blessing sure makes boating more enjoyable! BTW, You seem to have that hurdle well in hand! GO FOR IT! .....

 

[PM]

There is one important issue with used sport fishers. That issue is previous use. The present owner might be treating the boat like a trawler, in which case the engines will last forever. If it was used for any length of time as a real sport fisher, meaning the engines were run fast and hard, those "Screaming Green leakers" may need attention soon.

Better look into the history.

pete

 

[hollywood8118]

As others have said.. GO FOR IT


Luckily the Admiral is on board and you can share the blame if years from now the cost wasn't worth the experience.. but I doubt that will be the case.


It's better to regret the move for a time than regret not doing it forever


In my lifetime of boat ownership I have only had one ( of probably 20) boat I regretted buying.. Damn outboards!


HOLLYWOOD

 

[High Wire]

If you no longer had a boat at all, is that particular 48' boat the one you would buy? There are a 100,000 boats for sale. Get what you want.

 

[rslifkin]

There is one important issue with used sport fishers. That issue is previous use. The present owner might be treating the boat like a trawler, in which case the engines will last forever. If it was used for any length of time as a real sport fisher, meaning the engines were run fast and hard, those "Screaming Green leakers" may need attention soon.

Better look into the history.

pete

This is a good point. Sport fishes often get run very hard, usually at or above max continuous for many hours. So the engines often live shorter lives than other planing hulls where absolute max speed is less important, so fast cruise is usually not pushed quite so close to WOT.

 

[Ken E.]

Old sportfish boats of that vintage do strike the heartstrings of some people, me included. A bit of a reality check, though, since I'm at where you are thinking about going. First, you are talking about an old boat, so don't expect to get a lot for it when you sell, regardless of condition. If you run that boat at planing speeds with those 892's, your fuel burn will be very high, but tolerable at displacement speeds. You sound like you know Detroits, so you know their bad manners....oil leaks, lots of noise, big and heavy. I eventually repowered to Cummins from Detroit 871's because mine were tired, needed overhaul, and I found them hard to live with. But I'm in the minority and I'll never recover the cost of the repower on resale of the boat. I do, however, have fresh engines for our annual Alaska trip and the boat is a long-term hold. Long and short, the Egg you're considering is a classic. Designs of that era for sportfish boats are the best IMO. But do make sure that the boat doesn't have any major warts that you'll have to fix....Eggs used plywood coring for the decks, and I know a 48 SF that had major dry rot, a major expense. Also make sure the genset won't need replacement in the near term, which would be a big tab. Check the fuel tanks. Hatteras have fiberglass tanks, but not sure on Eggs.

 

[firehoser75]

If you no longer had a boat at all, is that particular 48' boat the one you would buy? There are a 100,000 boats for sale. Get what you want.

Ron,
I agree with Archie, but of course don't know the answer. Only you and your wife do!
These are personal deliberations with your personal factors (likes, affordability, etc.) involved. You have received some good ideas to consider, but ultimately only you and your wife can know "what you want and desire" as well as your risk tolerances.
I also agree with Pete, about finding out how this boat was previously used should you decide that you are seriously considering going ahead.

 

[RonR]

If you no longer had a boat at all, is that particular 48' boat the one you would buy? There are a 100,000 boats for sale. Get what you want.

Thank you everyone, all good things to think about.

If the 48' Egg was not for sale, I would probable keep mine for another year and look for another sport fisher. I planned on going from our old 24' Searay weekender to the 33' to a 40'. I was waiting around for the wife to see if she wanted the same thing and she does. About the only boat we like more is the Down East GB. But its 4 times the cost.

There are a few nice Hats in the area. But they have the same problems I will be facing when its time to sell.

There is a very nice 43 foot Hatteras sport fisher for sale local. Been for sale for about a year now. And this very boat is one of the reasons I love sport fishers. I have seen it around in Everett for probably 10-12 years now. Owners kept it in a boat house down the way from our old Searay. Always clean and always headed out for a cruse.
Started at what I thought was a fair price of 115,000.00
Now down to 79k.

There is also a nice 37' Egg up North of me we love. It needs a few things to be ideal like a gen set.. It started at 80k. I made a cash offer of 45k (what others of its age and condition sell for on the East Coast.) They did not take my offer or respond. I bought the older Egg I have, close to a year later the one up north is now listed at 57,750.00. Its a very clean boat, but still over priced.

As far as fuel use goes I need to dig into that a little more.
Owner thinks at 10-13knts he's at 15 gallons per hour.
At 20knts he states 45 gallons per hour.

When I am at 13-15k I am burning 16 gallons per hour.
When I am at 20 I am at 22 gallons per hour.
And right now gas cost about 1.00 more a gallon at the pump than diesel
So far I have put in about 500 gallons of fuel in mine and summer is just starting. I am planning another 400 gallons over the 11 days up North next week. For me right now its a time vs $$ thing. I don't have a lot of vacation time, so I will pay the fuel bill to save a days travel. I know I can kick it back to 7knts and burn 1/2 the fuel and take twice the time. And every time I kick it up to 14.


Slip fees are about 100.00 a month more. Currently I am in a 36' Covered, he is in a 50' open, I would look into making the radar arch hinge and get on the 50' enclosed list. But the list is like 3 years long. Im just happy it has a slip in Everett about 2 docks down from our current spot we love.

Boat insurance.. I am at $1,100.00 a year through progressive. I have the boat insured for 50k. Its worth about 25-35 on the market if you can find a buyer. Even if insurance was double its not a deal breaker.

I know the owner, he has dumped a ton of cash into the boat over the 11 years he has owned it. All new electronics/gen set/wiring/batteries/beds/decks re-done. He stays on top of things. I do not know how many hours are on the engines.

I am fearful of a mechanical failure as everyone is with older boats. My little chev 350's can be pulled, rebuilt, installed for under 5k each. The big Green Monsters will cost more than that in hard parts. And as we all know it will need to be done at some point of ownership.

I think I am more worried about jumping up in size than the financial maters. I struggled at first just docking the 33' when the currents running hard at the fuel dock and I was on the wrong side. The wife's concerns are places to put it when we go play up North. A 33' is easy to find a slip or side tie, a 48 is a bit more of a problem if you want dock space for a few days no matter how far in advance you plan.

As far as the loan, What I consider a big ass loan may be chump change to others. Heck I am sure most owe more on the cars they drive vs what I want to borrow. The only thing I owe on is the house. I don't make a lot of $$ but a 50k loan is a lot to borrow to me. If I was sticking to my old plan I would have enough $$ saved up to pay cash, but I am only 25% there now.

 

[rslifkin]

Docking a bigger boat may prove easier. More weight relative to windage will make it less affected by wind when maneuvering.

 

[Bradenvlp]

With interest rates so low, borrow the money and stick to your plan and you’ll be paid off quickly. I think there is a lot to be said for a boat you know the owner, care taken etc.

 

[Benthic2]

a contrarian approach: Look at each option and consider the worst case scenario.

Option 1: Get the bigger boat. What if you are wrong ? You have a boat that may be costly to run, need another big ass loan to re-power, is harder to handle and will sour you on boating you may end up selling at a loss just to get out from under it.

Option 2 Stay with the current boat. What if you are wrong ? You are in your current situation, which you are comfortable with. You have a boat that you like, are enjoying the learning curve, the wife is in agreement and you are enjoying boating. In otherwords, there is ZERO downside...only upside.

By keeping the current boat you keep your current satisfaction level, and you retain the option to upsize later. An option has value.

I'd say "don't do it ...yet". If a 40 year old 48 footer is the right boat for you, you can find one next year, or the year after that.

 

[lwarden]

a contrarian approach: Look at each option and consider the worst case scenario.

Option 1: Get the bigger boat. What if you are wrong ? You have a boat that may be costly to run, need another big ass loan to re-power, is harder to handle and will sour you on boating you may end up selling at a loss just to get out from under it.

Option 2 Stay with the current boat. What if you are wrong ? You are in your current situation, which you are comfortable with. You have a boat that you like, are enjoying the learning curve, the wife is in agreement and you are enjoying boating. In otherwords, there is ZERO downside...only upside.

By keeping the current boat you keep your current satisfaction level, and you retain the option to upsize later. An option has value.

I'd say "don't do it ...yet". If a 40 year old 48 footer is the right boat for you, you can find one next year, or the year after that.

This is sound advice.

 

[Miz Trom]

Hello RonR:

Personally, I have always been opposed to getting a loan to buy a boat.

Most importantly, the fact that you presently have a covered slip and would have to wait three years for a larger covered slip would be enough for me to nix the larger Egg right there.


Cheers, and wash your hands often,
Mrs. Trombley

 

[mvweebles]

Observations:

1. What problem are you trying to solve? Sounds like you guys are having a blast on your current boat. More space for family/friends, or just a simple grass is greener?

2. What is the can't-pass-up-a-killer-deal number? I'm normally a fair-deal guy, meaning I typically look for something that's fair for both parties. But in this case, I'd treat it a bit differently - what's the number that so screaming good that I'd be nuts to pass-up?

3. Fact that the owner of the 48 is willing to trade-down to a gasser probably tells you all you need to know about resale prospects.

4. Your enjoyable list of small projects will grow to larger and more expensive projects. At 46 I was up for them. At 59, I'm not. Personal choice.

Good luck - fun topic

Peter

 

[BandB]

So we bought our 33' egg harbor as our first big boat coming from a 24' sea ray. Its no trawler but what we like. Our plan was to buy the 33' and run it for two years, decide if we like bigger boats and go from there. If we love it we can go bigger, if we hate it or don't use it as much as we thought we would we can sell and not lose that much $$. Were about one year in from our initial search and 7 month from our buy date. We each love the boat life, I like the little projects and to do list, she loves everything about it from the planning to the trips. We spend a lot of time on the boat cleaning/fixing/entertaining/Fishing/Crabbing/booze cruses.

Anyhow there is a larger Egg harbor in our Marina, I know the owner and we have been talking. He is getting ready to down size and is interested in selling and even taking ours in on part trade.... This is something I was not even thinking about until late next year at the soonest. So now there is a mix of emotions running, are we going to fast, do we really like this life style, do we really want a boat loan? Will we continue to use a 48 as much as we do the 33? If we buy a 1978 boat with 8V-92's what will it be worth in 10-15 years when we are ready to get out. Is this $$ we are kissing good buy, or is this $$$ worth of memory's and experiences we will never get anywhere else? Its not a lot of $$ compared to a lot of boats this size, but the sport fisher is just not a big seller in the PNW. This boat is in fair to good shape for its age with many new options such as all new wiring, gen, batteries, interior/electronics. But is still old school with the 2- stroke Detroit's.

I have never been a big Detroit fan, but I know the engines well as the first engines I had ever rebuilt was a pair of 16V-92's. I know how to keep them running and I know what it takes to in-fame one. I also know that most people under 45 will have nothing to do with one given its noise/ fuel consumptions and oil leaks no matter how good of a job you think you did.

Thoughts? Am I moving to fast, wrong boat at the wrong time, or just jump at it as you only live once? The wife thinks its sexy and to do it. I'm scared I will end up with a huge project that I cant get ride of in 10 years even if I give it away. But dam its a cool ass boat.

I am 46 and I would consider this boat something on my list at age 60 not 47... It just seams like way too much way to fast, but I also know we are each at the point in our lives that we want to up-size or down-size. And if we can make it work, each of us would have it easy vs selling on the open market, trying to find the right boat and a place to keep it, really we would be moving two docks over each. One would end up with a clean boat and a lot of $$ in his pocket, the other would end up with a clean boat and a big ass loan...

Were getting ready for a 11 day trip on the little Egg next week, I don't think I will sleep much until I get on the big Egg on the 13th of July...

I never see in your post the "Why" as to making the change other than it being cool. What problem are you solving? None, that I see. I see so many reasons to say no by trying to read between the lines. Getting a big ass loan isn't healthy. Doesn't matter what size it is, big ass is your words and if you consider it that and think of it like that then bad news in my opinion. Second, you worry about it's value in ten years. If that worries you, then it's too much to go for today. A boat that age, you shouldn't even be thinking it will be worth anything in ten years. It might be but that shouldn't be part of the consideration. It's already 42 years old. Already challenging to finance and insure and add ten years to that and more so.

Someone else puts it well in describing what you can lose by making the move and the fact there appears to be zero downside to doing nothing. You have a boat you enjoy and can afford, one right for you today.

 

[av8r]

Might not be a factor for you but Washington State park buoys are limited to 45’. Some parks also have good anchorage, others not so much.

 

[Shrew]

If you no longer had a boat at all, is that particular 48' boat the one you would buy? There are a 100,000 boats for sale. Get what you want.

I have to agree. I feel like the OP is moving forward for the wrong reasons.

1) You know the guy and like him

2) It's an Egg and you happen to own an egg.

3) It's got DD's and you've rebuilt DD's before

4) The owner is willing to do a cash + Trade (the makes the deal very convenient.

5) You might want a bigger boat and this happens to be a bigger boat.

Buy the boat you want for the right reasons. I'm not convinced any of these are the right reasons.

 

[MYTraveler]

It sounds like you are plenty happy with all aspects of your current boat. If so, I doubt that your boat happiness level will increase much with that or any other boat, at least not at this stage. Wait until you outgrow your current boat, if ever.

 

[magna 6882]

I am new to boating but not new to life. I ended up with a factory new boat in 90 days and jumped straight to 45ft from basically fresh water boats so i would consider that fast. The difference is i paid cash and if this little adventure goes south the only impact is my kids may not be as happy. I got to this point by making sure what i was doing when i was 40 was forward thinking and that didn't include taking on any dept that didnt have a suitable return. Its understandable folks need to get loans but i see young people buying 100,000 dollar bmws just because they can and then get hit with the depreciation which takes away from there lifetime earnings.
I am not saying don't do it. People need to have fun but you sound like a thinker and please let us know what your decision is.

 

[RonR]

Thank you everyone for the sound advise. This is why I asked in the first place as many of you have been here before, or will be shortly. Were going to take off on the little egg for a few weeks. And then re-visit what we want vs what we need. I don't spend a lot of $$ with the hopes of a nice retirement at an early age.

As far as a drop dead deal, no you guys are right there will be plenty of 40+ year old sport fishers for sale. Many of the ones that were for sale a year ago are still for sale today. I do like this boat, and I do like the Egg brand.

 

[tekdiver]

My brother had an early 80s Golden Egg 48 with 892s. After a 10-12 hour fishing trip it took hours to fill up. It wasn't hard to burn 600 gallons a day.

600 GAL that alone would hurt my budget. Been looking at bigger better boats as well. I heino and Cummings are easier on fuel but again another post.