Shaft seal is leaking-and more than a little

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DonW28

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
135
Location
USA
Vessel Make
2006 Mainship 34T
Took the boat out today for a little test run after the regular oil/filter etc. maintenance and the dripless shaft seal is dripless no more. I'd say leaking at a good 5 gallons or more per hour. I pushed in on the bellows as much as possible and ran the engine a bit in forward and reverse but no luck stopping it. The yards in Key West are--well yards in Key West. Sorry but we don't haul boats on Sunday and we are backed up for weeks anyway. Boat is sinking--oh "hate to hear that."



Anything else I can try without risking making it much worse? And if it won't stop any ideas on how to manage this until I can get hauled somewhere?



Plastic and duck tape aren't doing the trick. Was thinking maybe a couple hose clamps and heavy plastic might work.



As soon as I figure out how to attach a picture of the seal I will send it.



Don
 
I don't have one, but know that they can be adjusted in the water. You need to find someone that can do that. Try Cat shop next to Perry Hotel for recommendation.
 
Yikes. What bad timing for something like this to happen!
I've never had to deal with anything like this, but I think my first thought would be to wrap something like a large chamois cloth (rag-like, but water resistant) tightly around it and the shaft and then tie it tightly as possible with heavy string and perhaps some large hose clamps. This would be just to reduce the water ingress, of course, and would need to all be removed before motoring over to the lift-out dock when the time comes.
 
Here's a tip a mechanic I trust told me about. Separate the rotor and stator enough to get a some working room and goop the surfaces up with toothpaste. You'll likely have to back off on your new bellows compression some. Let it run for a while. The reasoning is the toothpaste will be wiped off the surfaces by the incoming water as it polishes the surfaces. The success of this approach will depend upon how badly the surfaces are scored.

I've never needed to try it so I don't know if it really works or not. I can't see harm in trying. Toothpaste is a very fine water soluble polishing compound.

If that doesn't work and you need to stop the leaking without being able to turn the shaft try tightly wound rescue tape. The stuff is magic. Just remember to remove it before you run the boat.

Another thing you might think about trying is a temporary sump until you can get hauled and repairs made. If you have the room under the seal, 12 V power nearby and a place to discharge the water put a shower sump with the top removed under the drip. It may not work very well when the boat is running because the leak will likely spray rather than drip.
 
Manufacturer of seal and where it's leaking would help...
There is a product out there called generically 'Rescue tape' It's a silicone stretchy tape you can use to seal leaks. Might help slow down the water coming in.
https://www.rescuetape.com/ I found some at a boat show 1 year and picked up a couple rolls. No idea where you might find it right away.
 
I'm going to rig a generic sump since the batteries are close and on shore power. And look for some rescue tape. Using hose clamps would 100% fix the problem if I could figure out what to put between them. Everything has to be cut to fit over the shaft obviously and that sort of causes a problem since the water will leak from there. I'll figure how to post a picture eventually and will search the manuals for the specific model. Not the PSS model I had on the last boat.
 
I learn useful things on this forum every day!

Rescue tape, I've never heard of - but will soon own some!

Toothpaste -- um -- I've heard of, but not for this potential new use!
 
The shaft seal has a blue bellows and a black carbon looking front with 5 allen screws. Still have not determined a brand. Leak is from inside by the shaft. Can't figure out where or how to separate this like you do the pss type to polish anything.



Don
 
Sorry to hear of your woes. The prime reason for the leak is misalignment, its absolutely critical. When first installed it must be 100% for it to "run in " and form the perfect seal. I would have a look at the carbon face to see if there are any chips out causing the leak , if it looks good try to realign and adjust to the manufacturers tension again. Then run it in align to reface. Heard of the toothpaste trick before, but never used it. Too much tension on the bellows causes the seal to drag and twist making it leak. i'd keep on the re-align and adjust path.
 
I have no idea when the shaft seal was installed. It was in the boat when we bought it 2 years ago and has performed without any issue until this morning. And that includes a rather long trip from NC to Key West in July. I guess shaft alignment could certainly be the cause but it picked a strange time to suddenly get misaligned after all these miles. But who knows. And to add to the mystery of boats it has now almost totally stopped. Perhaps there was a piece of trash in there or when everything went back to ambient temp it sealed up?? I'm going to the yard tomorrow and get a new one ordered and an appointment to pull the boat and replace it. Not going for another ride to see if it is really "fixed" for sure. BTW. Forgot to say the boat is an 06 Mainship 34T with Yanmar 370. I'm sure that narrows down the shaft seal model options. Don
 
DonW28 said:
Took the boat out today for a little test run after the regular oil/filter etc. maintenance and the dripless shaft seal is dripless no more. I'd say leaking at a good 5 gallons or more per hour. I pushed in on the bellows as much as possible and ran the engine a bit in forward and reverse but no luck stopping it. The yards in Key West are--well yards in Key West. Sorry but we don't haul boats on Sunday and we are backed up for weeks anyway. Boat is sinking--oh "hate to hear that."



Anything else I can try without risking making it much worse? And if it won't stop any ideas on how to manage this until I can get hauled somewhere?



Plastic and duck tape aren't doing the trick. Was thinking maybe a couple hose clamps and heavy plastic might work.



As soon as I figure out how to attach a picture of the seal I will send it.



Don
Click to expand...



Get a diver and stuff old towels, shirts etc around the shaft exit till it stops. Then book a haulout. At 5 gph your pumps will keep up as long as you are on the boat, so your haulout can be a ways away.
I have seen this emergency treatment work.
 
It is a Tides Marine dripless seal and it seems the lip seal is replaceable without hauling the boat. Also saw a recommendation to run a .003 feeler gauge around the seal to try and clear debris. I think things might work out ok. Still buying some rescue tape. Sounds like a must have like plugs.


Don
 
Naturally mine doesn't have the spare seal installed but that is OK. I'm going to clean out the old seal using the feeler gauge and then order the new seal and a spare and get the boat pulled. Likely can do the work hanging from the cradle and problem solved. As long as the water is stopped I'm fine waiting. Not like we need to go anywhere. Sorta bummed that I always try and run the boat and generator at least once a month for 5 miles or so and today it bit me in the butt. While I'm glad I know we have a problem now it would have been nice to have found it on a Monday and not Christmas week LOL.
 
Without manufacturer...a picture might help a bit.... can you adjust this one like the PSS by compressing the below and adjusting the ring towards it?

Lasdrop on top,, or Tides on bottom?
 

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Last edited:
psneeld said:
Without manufacturer...a picture might help a bit.... can you adjust this one like the PSS by compressing the below and adjusting the ring towards it?

Lasdrop on top,, or Tides on bottom?
Click to expand...


It is the Tides brand. Unfortunately sans the spare shaft seal you see on the picture. But the good news is it has 100percent stopped leaking. I'm thinking there was some debris in the seal that somehow flushed out. Still plan to watch it carefully until I can get it hauled and the seal replaced just in case it wasn't debris.


Don
 
OF your boat is older there is a chance this seal setup was installed as an "improvement".

The stock bronze stuffing box may still be installed with parts intact.

IF it is, use a drill bit to figure the size packing needed and install a modern packing , and forgetabout the new system.

No haulout required.
 
Those seals, IMHO, are a complicated answer to a simple problem.


I use the Volvo type rubber stuffing box by Orbitrade.


Several versions are available. Origonaly a Volvo Penta Patent, now long expired, but were made for them by specialist companies.


Radice and Orbitrade have made improvements to these simple, trouble free and long lasting seals.


I use an Orbitrade for a 2 inch stern tube, 1 3/4 inch shaft that has an air vent spigot - this means it does not need venting after lifting or drying out - plus a simple lube port. Lubrication is annually, takes but a minute.


The sealing is sooo simple. Put a poly bag up your arm and plunge into water to the elbow. You will find water pressure causes the flexible poly bag to grab you arm tightly.


The seals have two long - 3/8 inch - flexible lips that face rearwards with a gap between them. A simple fitting device is used to position these seals correctly during installation. Once fitted correctly the water pressure causes the rear lip to grip the shaft, working lubrication, like the cutlass bearing, by water. Special rubber grease is inserted between the front and rear seals through the grease port, lubing the front seal. If the rear seal fails, the front seal takes over.


Volvo specified a seven year working life. Many have doubled this period.


My three boats fitted with them have shared one thing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've had Tides shaft seals for years and never had one leak. I also had a spare pre-assembled.
When you replace the seal, change the location of the seal so it rides on a different portion of the shaft.
And buy 2 seals and pre-assemble one for next time although it's likely not to be needed for 15 years or more.
 
jleonard said:
I've had Tides shaft seals for years and never had one leak. I also had a spare pre-assembled.
When you replace the seal, change the location of the seal so it rides on a different portion of the shaft.
And buy 2 seals and pre-assemble one for next time although it's likely not to be needed for 15 years or more.
Click to expand...


Although I don't have the spare seal assembly right now it did get me thinking. Is it possible (I'm a diver and at low tide can easily stand on the bottom under the boat) that I could slide the shaft back a couple inches and install a new seal without pulling the boat. I'm assuming that the shaft will actually pull back once I loosen the allen screws holding it to the coupling. That might be wishful thinking on my part but given the difficulty of haulouts here it is an option at least.



Has anyone ever done this?



Don
 
DonW28 said:
Although I don't have the spare seal assembly right now it did get me thinking. Is it possible (I'm a diver and at low tide can easily stand on the bottom under the boat) that I could slide the shaft back a couple inches and install a new seal without pulling the boat. I'm assuming that the shaft will actually pull back once I loosen the allen screws holding it to the coupling. That might be wishful thinking on my part but given the difficulty of haulouts here it is an option at least.

Has anyone ever done this?
Don
Click to expand...

I have. It depends if you can move the shaft back far enough to clear the coupler before the prop shafts hits the rudder.
 
There should be a couple of inches between prop and rudder.
I moved my shaft aft from inside the boat, then forward again so that is possible too.
Turn shaft back/forth while pushing/pulling.
 
jleonard said:
I have. It depends if you can move the shaft back far enough to clear the coupler before the prop shafts hits the rudder.
Click to expand...


Darn. Forgot about the rudder. I guess I need to hop under the boat this afternoon and take a look. Since the drip is basically stopped maybe I need to get on the haulout schedule and stop trying to fix this yesterday LOL. Type A personalities don't do well in Key West.



But it sure would be awfully simple to be able to do it right here. What would really be nice would be enough room to clear the coupler by an inch or two and then hit the rudder so there is no way for the shaft to come all the way out. Doubt I am that lucky.


Don
 
DonW28 said:
Although I don't have the spare seal assembly right now it did get me thinking. Is it possible (I'm a diver and at low tide can easily stand on the bottom under the boat) that I could slide the shaft back a couple inches and install a new seal without pulling the boat. I'm assuming that the shaft will actually pull back once I loosen the allen screws holding it to the coupling. That might be wishful thinking on my part but given the difficulty of haulouts here it is an option at least.



Has anyone ever done this?



Don
Click to expand...

The assumption that the shaft will come out of the coupler with anything short of a puller/press on the end of it (after disconnecting from the trans) is a big one. It might but it's more likely not to move easily, shaft couplers are fit to tight tolerances and are designed to stay put, not be easy to remove. Trying to do this in the water sounds stressful at best and possibly creating a worse situation than you started with.
 
sbman said:
The assumption that the shaft will come out of the coupler with anything short of a puller/press on the end of it (after disconnecting from the trans) is a big one. It might but it's more likely not to move easily, shaft couplers are fit to tight tolerances and are designed to stay put, not be easy to remove. Trying to do this in the water sounds stressful at best and possibly creating a worse situation than you started with.
Click to expand...


Having tried to pull props underwater in the past I know you are correct. Getting that shaft out of the coupler will almost be a miracle. And if I was going to get a Christmas boat miracle the previous owner would have installed the spare seal and keeper and my problem would be solved. It could be worse--at least the leak is under control and I have plenty of time now.



Don
 
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