Second station - How much do you really use it?

[StarChaser]

I have both, but have never used the lower due t the horrendous visibility from midships and ZERO aft but Star is an aft cabin.

 

[markpierce]

I have both, but have never used the lower due t the horrendous visibility from midships and ZERO aft but Star is an aft cabin.

A matter of picking the right boat.

 

[ClarkeGillespie]

Personal preference

I almost never use my upper helm. But I like comfort and don’t want skin cancer.
It is a total question of what you like. Don’t worry about what we say. Do what you want.

 

[Laredo]

I said the same thing on the previous thread but I drive from the lower helm frequently. Anytime, it rains or is too cold or hot. But we have a pilothouse and I have excellent visibility with very comfortable surroundings inside...As others have said, it really depends on the type of vessel you have. A pilothouse is best if driving from below is important to you.

 

[Vashon_Trawler]

I spent many of my younger years on a Defever 44, and I can count on one hand the number of times the lower helm was used. I love fly bridges and the excellent visibility they provide. We had a bimini so sun wasn't a problem. I don't like being cooped up while underway. I'm sure my opinion would be different if I lived in cooler climates. To each their own...

 

[Reelalure]

Kids the X Factor

We have a pilot house trawler with great visibility and a wonderful FB. We cruise in norther lake MI and I love both but would not go with out the fly bridge. We have so few nice days a year I love being on the FB just to be outside. I have a hard top to keep the sun off but no enclosure. I personally really like to be on the bridge even if I have hat, gloves and a winter coat on. For me it makes the boat much bigger. I also have a 7 year old and a 10 year old and we regularly go for 5-10 hour cruises and it makes a nice place to get a little peace and quiet. It’s hard to see your iPad in the direct sun so they tend to spend more time in the cabin?. I would say we use both stations 50/50 but I would not go without the FB for our family.

 

[HopCar]

I live in South Florida so I’m sure that effects my choice. I’m also a pilot and enjoy being up high. I won’t waste money on a lower station on my next boat. I also hate plastic enclosures. If it rains, I enjoy the fresh water rinse.

 

[Caphenning]

I use my aft station when backing and the pilot house going forward.

 

[FoxtrotCharlie]

With a sundeck trawler with no aft visibility from the lower station, I never use it when underway.

What he said

 

[Bryant]

Upper station

Greetings all,

I'm shopping for the next boat, and not down to specific models yet. I'm hung up on wanting a second controls station. What I'm looking for will likely have a flybridge.

A little background - Currently an express cruiser user (06 Monterey 302 for sale!!) and mainly a river boater on the Mississippi and St. Croix Rivers. The plan is to move boating to Lake Superior, specifically Bayfield, Wisconsin. I have 2 small kids ages 8 and 6. And my stellar wife, who I've converted into a happy boater!

The goal is - It's a beautiful day in the boating-hood, up on the flybridge things going all good....Something changes, rain, cold, bugs, whatever.... I snap a cover over controls, walk down a stair/ladder, shut a door....carry on! I very much dislike isinglass and enclosures. Like a lot. A_LOT!

How much do you use your lower station, really?

My concerns:

1. It's limiting my boat search because it's not as common as I thought on a 32-42 foot boat. Mainly looking at 1998 and newer, but would jump at the right older vessel.

2. Will it suck? I've seen several comments about lower stations being unusable. Do you know of a specific setup that stinks so I can check it out?

3. Will I use it? More details, I grew up sailing Lake Superior on various sailboats, and am ok with some rain/wind/cold/bugs because sometimes you have to adapt and overcome to get to the good stuff right?

I welcome your always awesome opinions. Y'all never let me down!

Totally depends on the boat. My lower station has 0 visibility aft so it would be impossible to back into a slip from there. I use the lower station in bad weather or rough seas. I use the upper station exclusively for backing and for anchoring, although I could anchor from the lower station. I just have better visibility and easier communication when driving from the flybridge. Also, it's a great place to hang out, read and relax.

A hidden benefit of the flybridge that's very important is that's my wife's favorite place on the boat when anchored out. Morning, evenings and nights will find her there and if she's happy, I'm happy.

 

[Bryant]

Upper helm

Not quite sure what the obsession with seeing behind one's boat is.

Try towing barges with little boats in close quarters for a living....

Well, for one thing, when I'm motoring along at a blinding 8kts in our crowded waterways, I'm constantly passed on both sides by lunatics who come close abeam when passing at 30kts or more and if I turned either way it would be a bad day for both of us. If I'm by myself I have to be topside because I have no visibility aft from the lower helm. Secondly, I have to back into my slip because of where the gates are on my hand rail and the length of our finger piers. As I said, I can't see aft from the lower helm so I have to back from the FB.

 

[psneeld]

So....people pass you.... If I have to make a sharp turn, I just walk to a door and look behind. Mostly I just don't make sharp turns in crowded waterways without slowing.


Same for backing into a slip, things don't happen so quickly that you can't walk outside....except on some pretty windy days it might get dicey.


Heck on some boats you can hardly see astern from the bridge either...got to learn to maneuver and still walk around.


Do you have something covering both back windows on your GB36?



Current, sure thats a problem and I would probably go to my bridge or rig an outside station if I didn't have one and I was going to keep a slip I have to back into with current.

 

[Bryant]

second station

So....people pass you.... If I have to make a sharp turn, I just walk to a door and look behind. Mostly I just don't make sharp turns in crowded waterways without slowing.


Same for backing into a slip, things don't happen so quickly that you can't walk outside....except on some pretty windy days it might get dicey.


Heck on some boats you can hardly see astern from the bridge either...got to learn to maneuver and still walk around.


Do you have something covering both back windows on your GB36?



Current, sure thats a problem and I would probably go to my bridge or rig an outside station if I didn't have one and I was going to keep a slip I have to back into with current.

Lol. Leaving the helm to walk out the one door I have to look aft every time I needed to turn or maneuver in our crowded waters isn't feasible. I slow as well but speed doesn't matter if you can't see behind you and you turn in front of someone. Are you saying you maneuver in crowded waterways without being able to see behind you but by just slowing down? Or that you leave your helm in crowded waterways to go outside and look around? Neither makes much sense.
I have two small windows on the aft bulkhead of my saloon. My dinghy is mounted right behind the one directly behind my lower helm station and you can't see aft from the port side window. The angle is to great.

I have fantastic 360 degree visibility from my FB.

You have clearly never backed a single screw trawler with no thruster into a slip or you wouldn't have made the comment about things not happening so quickly that you can't take a leisurely walk outside to survey the situation. You can't even see the slip from the lower helm of a GB 36 classic. And with any wind or current at all it requires so much back and fill maneuvering that if you left the helm to walk outside and look, you'd be sideways before you could get back to the helm. Or you'd be into another boat. Which is academic since you can't see your slip from below to begin with. The prop walk alone while backing a single screw GB requires being able to see and react immediately.

I'm not sure what your boating experience is but your comments don't reflect a great deal of hands on, practical knowledge. I have over 55 years experience on everything from Optimist Prams to Aircraft Carriers and if you don't understand the importance of having situational awareness of what's behind or abeam you while at the helm then I don't know what to say.

 

[Caphenning]

So....people pass you.... If I have to make a sharp turn, I just walk to a door and look behind. Mostly I just don't make sharp turns in crowded waterways without slowing.


Same for backing into a slip, things don't happen so quickly that you can't walk outside....except on some pretty windy days it might get dicey.


Heck on some boats you can hardly see astern from the bridge either...got to learn to maneuver and still walk around.


Do you have something covering both back windows on your GB36?



Current, sure thats a problem and I would probably go to my bridge or rig an outside station if I didn't have one and I was going to keep a slip I have to back into with current.

Another option is a box on a cable (or wireless if you trust it). This is the only pic I got of it when I was putting some training on my mate. It was nice with full controls, rudder angle indicator, and tachs. It could go to either wing and drop into a hanger frame.

 

[AnnapolisJoy]

Always

Every day. Leaving the dock, passing through a bridge, departing an inlet, entering an inlet, docking, general cruising at sea etc.

 

[markpierce]

So....people pass you.... If I have to make a sharp turn, I just walk to a door and look behind. Mostly I just don't make sharp turns in crowded waterways without slowing. ...

Agree. Am thankful for having both port and starboard doors on my pilothouse.

 

[OldDan1943]

Can’t see aft from the lower station? Get a back down camera.
Question: where do you keep the food, A/C and head?
If I want to feel the breeze and temp, I have a port and starboard and stern door. They all open.
For rough weather, it sure would be nice to have a 5 point seat belt. SMIRK
If you have any question about seeing fwd, go find a boat with only a lower station. Visualize a backdown camera. Maybe you will come to a decision when you remember, you are not getting any younger and that ladder to the FB is not going to change to accommodate your age. LOL

 

[Rufus]

1. I too despise fly bridge canvas.

2. If you boat on the open waters of the Great Lakes in the Spring and Fall you absolutely need a lower helm. Much better ride in rough water, and heat. The view over the bow is easily solved with an extendable height chair. I made one. Not a very good photo, but the lower station is just a small pedestal. The black arm chair at the edge of the photo raises about two feet for use as a helm chair. If I want to see what’s behind the boat I look at the radar or walk to the back door to the sun deck. Docking is most often from the fly bridge. This is an OA 440.

 

[psneeld]

Lol. Leaving the helm to walk out the one door I have to look aft every time I needed to turn or maneuver in our crowded waters isn't feasible. I slow as well but speed doesn't matter if you can't see behind you and you turn in front of someone. Are you saying you maneuver in crowded waterways without being able to see behind you but by just slowing down? Or that you leave your helm in crowded waterways to go outside and look around? Neither makes much sense.
I have two small windows on the aft bulkhead of my saloon. My dinghy is mounted right behind the one directly behind my lower helm station and you can't see aft from the port side window. The angle is to great.

I have fantastic 360 degree visibility from my FB.

You have clearly never backed a single screw trawler with no thruster into a slip or you wouldn't have made the comment about things not happening so quickly that you can't take a leisurely walk outside to survey the situation. You can't even see the slip from the lower helm of a GB 36 classic. And with any wind or current at all it requires so much back and fill maneuvering that if you left the helm to walk outside and look, you'd be sideways before you could get back to the helm. Or you'd be into another boat. Which is academic since you can't see your slip from below to begin with. The prop walk alone while backing a single screw GB requires being able to see and react immediately.

I'm not sure what your boating experience is but your comments don't reflect a great deal of hands on, practical knowledge. I have over 55 years experience on everything from Optimist Prams to Aircraft Carriers and if you don't understand the importance of having situational awareness of what's behind or abeam you while at the helm then I don't know what to say.

We will just have to disagree....

A few here know my experience....I dont need to list it all again.

 

[Salish Nomad]

Avoiding the drying winds, cold breezes, precipitation, and radiation.

Yup.

 

[Medic]

'yo MNCruiser,

Sir, you are apparently my mirror image kinda guy!

I live in Hudson, WI and have a boat (for sale) in Bayport, MN. I HATE isinglass with a passion. When the Navy starts putting it on destroyers I might reconsider. The newer polycarbonates are a somewhat different story but I confess to not having much experience with them.

My previous boat was a 55' Nordhavn, and I kept it for 2 years in Bayfield,WI.

I seldom drove from the flybridge. I loved the PH. I also own a North Pacific 49 that has a wonderdful PH and a flybridge, and I seldom drive from the flybridge.

If you are going to be on Lake Superior then you gotta consider the possibility of unexpected storms, etc. If one should get to you the PH will "pay for itself" in just one storm. I have been in rough weather on the Atlantic, the Pacific, the Gulf of St. Lawrence, the Caribbean, and LAKE SUPERIOR. On Lake Superior I was requested by the Coast Guard to assist in searching for a family of five who put out a Mayday in such a sudden storm. While awaiting the Coast Guard I circled the area they gave me, saw a couple of pieces of what might or might not have been debris from a sunken boat, and was ultimately released by the Coast Guard when they got on station.

On that voyage I had a hired meteorologist who didn't see the storm, I had not seen anything about the storm, and I doubt the family had seen anything about the storm. But it was nasty and my understanding was that the Coast Guard did not find them, but I don't know for sure how it turned out.

You want a pilothouse.

'nuff said. Send me a private message if you want to get in touch and talk at greater length.

 

[Rufus]

“You want a pilothouse.

'nuff said. “

No, you need a lower helm in an aft cabin sun deck layout. When it’s nice outside you don’ want to be cooped up in a tug or pilothouse boat.

 

[Codger2]

I spent many of my younger years on a Defever 44, and I can count on one hand the number of times the lower helm was used. I love fly bridges and the excellent visibility they provide. .

Same here. We have a flybridge and all piloting is done from there. All electronics also reside on the bridge. Works great....wouldn't have it any other way!

 

[markpierce]

Fly bridges take one far from the deck, requiring negotiating steep ladder steps or stairway (don't trip or fall and hurt one's self), when single-handling dock work.

 

[Caphenning]

Fly bridges take one far from the deck, requiring negotiating steep ladder steps or stairway (don't trip or fall and hurt one's self), when single-handling dock work.

Yeah, a stern station is typically a better Docking arrangement than a fly bridge.

 

[Bryant]

Upper helm.

We will just have to disagree....

A few here know my experience....I dont need to list it all again.

We do disagree.
If you are saying you can back a single screw trawler into a slip that you can’t see from a lower helm station while walking out on deck to look before going back to the helm where you still can’t see the slip in normal wind and current conditions, you’ve never done it and you don’t know what you are talking about. Maybe on a lake in the mountains, dead calm wind, with mirror flat water and no current but nowhere else.
I too am quite experienced.

 

[Caphenning]

We do disagree.
If you are saying you can back a single screw trawler into a slip that you can’t see from a lower helm station while walking out on deck to look before going back to the helm where you still can’t see the slip in normal wind and current conditions, you’ve never done it and you don’t know what you are talking about. Maybe on a lake in the mountains, dead calm wind, with mirror flat water and no current but nowhere else.
I too am quite experienced.

Most boats with just a Pilot house control set use a camera and monitor, or multi camera system. As long as they keep port and starboard views correct it’s not a problem. My favorite way to set it up is with the monitor in the back of the wheelhouse with a back window view.

 

[Bryant]

Second station

Fly bridges take one far from the deck, requiring negotiating steep ladder steps or stairway (don't trip or fall and hurt one's self), when single-handling dock work.

I agree, but given the option of that or not being able to see, I’ll take visibility and situational awareness. Besides, single handing is less than 1% of my time. I always have crew aboard (wife). She’s retired Navy, 30 years, and more time at sea than you can imagine, so she’s a pretty good mate.

 

[Bryant]

Second station

Most boats with just a Pilot house control set use a camera and monitor, or multi camera system. As long as they keep port and starboard views correct it’s not a problem. My favorite way to set it up is with the monitor in the back of the wheelhouse with a back window view.

Lol. Ok. Or you can just go up to the fly bridge where you have 360 degree vision and you can see everything going on around you, Rather than the myopic view of a camera which takes your concentration away from what’s going on around the boat. That was the original question on this string and the advice I provided.

 

[Caphenning]

Greetings all,

I'm shopping for the next boat, and not down to specific models yet. I'm hung up on wanting a second controls station. What I'm looking for will likely have a flybridge.

A little background - Currently an express cruiser user (06 Monterey 302 for sale!!) and mainly a river boater on the Mississippi and St. Croix Rivers. The plan is to move boating to Lake Superior, specifically Bayfield, Wisconsin. I have 2 small kids ages 8 and 6. And my stellar wife, who I've converted into a happy boater!

The goal is - It's a beautiful day in the boating-hood, up on the flybridge things going all good....Something changes, rain, cold, bugs, whatever.... I snap a cover over controls, walk down a stair/ladder, shut a door....carry on! I very much dislike isinglass and enclosures. Like a lot. A_LOT!

How much do you use your lower station, really?

My concerns:

1. It's limiting my boat search because it's not as common as I thought on a 32-42 foot boat. Mainly looking at 1998 and newer, but would jump at the right older vessel.

2. Will it suck? I've seen several comments about lower stations being unusable. Do you know of a specific setup that stinks so I can check it out?

3. Will I use it? More details, I grew up sailing Lake Superior on various sailboats, and am ok with some rain/wind/cold/bugs because sometimes you have to adapt and overcome to get to the good stuff right?

I welcome your always awesome opinions. Y'all never let me down!

I mostly drive from inside. Outside is pretty much maneuvering or occasional beautiful day cruise for an hour or two. But I come from a commercial back ground where fly bridges don’t exist. You have a forward and aft station. FWD for travel, AFT for working at the rig, or making up to a barge, or getting up to the dock and under the crane.

I get very little use out of a fly bridge and would dedicate a top deck to entertaining and water toy storage. That’s what you have the biggest shortage of in the 40-65’ range if you have family that wants to take paddle boards and kayaks.... Plus it opens up more room for a wet bar and grill, and have full controls for main and stern station.

With electronic control systems you can have a control box on a cable to plug in and walk around upstairs as well.