release the nautical masses from nautical terms

[SteveK]

This last post says it all Mr Charlesamilton.

No one here in real life would probably do anything more than try to help you coming into a dock and helping you with stuff in general.

But you post a thread that basically challenges what is familiar to older salts.

So all I have to say is look in the mirror for the problem.

Not those who have walked the path before you.

I posted before about smelling attitude...it just keeps getting stronger.

You want to feel better about all this...come visit with some old and new salts at the SE Trawler Forum get together in FT Pierce, Fl late Feb and you might feel different when you leave.

Well said. I deleted what I wanted to say so the mods would not have to.

 

[O C Diver]

since I started this thread I am obviously all knowing and my word is final. just kidding my serious friends! The original point of my question was how people in boating for some reason feel superior to us newbies and if we use a term or hit the dock a little hard or leave our fenders out three seconds too long the sanctimonious seasoned vets are all too ready to pounce. I have been skiing for over 55 years, I am damn good BUT I am thrilled when new people come to the sport I love, I don't look down on them if they get off the chair a bit awkwardly or forget to button their jacket or they complete a full yard sale, I help them up and dont judge them, I was once there. I love my boat, I love the life style and yes the nautical terms but for god sake's embrace us newbies, stop being such pompous know it all's, you were once there.

What part of this did you not understand?

The sad part about this thread is that we're generally pretty easy going here when it comes to nautical nomenclature. We generally try to be inclusive, recognizing that most do this for fun or passion of boating. Most don't blink when someone comments on a bathroom.

Simply, you would probably have been ok with calling it a kitchen, if you hadn't expected us to do the same.

Ted

We embrace the newbies and treat you gently, until you try to change the rules. You're welcome to stay; we'll overlook your nomenclature mistakes; we won't be told that it has to be your way.

Ted

 

[BruceK]

Just wondering if I am the only one that really don't see the necessity of nautical terms....

Yes.

 

[OldDan1943]

A person has to learn somewhere what better place than on a boat where one can put their hands on it and educated by someone who know the terms. Dont crowd your mind, take your time and remember what you learn. Eventually you will learn and the terms will come natural to you. Until then, watch, learn, asks questions and remember.
Use them in conversation and be prepared to be corrected as necessary.

 

[charlesamilton]

you just dont get it old salty, old salty just about covers it. I am not against tradition and knowledge nor am I against learning from people that know more than me, in fact if you took the time to read my threads with your ego in check you would realize that I embrace the world of boating just not the old holier than thou salty dog who feels he is better than the newbie when he too was once a newbie, lubber out!

 

[psneeld]

That final post sums it up...not wasting any more of my time either.

After a lifetime of learning then passing it along...mostly appreciated....this guy aint getting it and he blames us.

PS...by the way rookie, old salts can be better than newbies on a lot of levels....its the way of the world that you have obviously missed.

 

[OldDan1943]

I too have exhausted the subject so I will bow out of here.

 

[Comodave]

since I started this thread I am obviously all knowing and my word is final. just kidding my serious friends! The original point of my question was how people in boating for some reason feel superior to us newbies and if we use a term or hit the dock a little hard or leave our fenders out three seconds too long the sanctimonious seasoned vets are all too ready to pounce. I have been skiing for over 55 years, I am damn good BUT I am thrilled when new people come to the sport I love, I don't look down on them if they get off the chair a bit awkwardly or forget to button their jacket or they complete a full yard sale, I help them up and dont judge them, I was once there. I love my boat, I love the life style and yes the nautical terms but for god sake's embrace us newbies, stop being such pompous know it all's, you were once there.

Boating knowledge is something that takes time and is hard learned. When you come here and basically say you don’t want to bother learning, that it is too much trouble or for whatever reason you kinda irritate everyone that has invested the time and effort to do the learning. Maybe a better approach would be to ask for help with the learning and not knock the people that have already done the learning. Most people in boating, and certainly on this forum, are ready and willing to help people learn and gain experience. You talk about pompous people that know it all, how many are really out there. I have been boating for almost 60 years and could count the pompous idiots on my fingers. Maybe you had a bad experience with one but I think you are blowing it way out of proportion. Take a deep breath and realize that almost all boaters are really nice people and will bend over backwards to help, so accept the help. And if it isn’t offered then ask for some help. Then go out and enjoy boating. Good luck.

 

[SteveK]

Dave, your sig line works for a reply too

Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.

 

[Comodave]

Dave, your sig line works for a reply too

Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.

Thanks, but I found it somewhere so I can’t take credit for originating it. I read it and immediately it hit me that I have been trying to explain that my whole life and I am usually unsuccessful at doing it..

 

[squimmy27]

I'm making a quick message to you on how much I enjoy your postings...

 

[squimmy27]

Yes.

Yes

 

[Robvald]

Oh boy, here we go!

 

[backinblue]

OK, I've been thinking on this one a bit but since we are now all in agreement or tired of arguing about nautical terms, I'll open up this can of worms. Somewhere in this thread "Master Stateroom" was said to out of favor for being racist. The word "master" and the word "slave" are still valid English words and don't always have to refer to slavery in America or human slavery anywhere for that matter. Last I checked my car still has a master cylinder. The master/slave relationship in engineering is technically valid and has nothing to do with human slavery or being racist. It's a relationship where one device (the master) is in control of one or more other devices (slaves). It's found in electrical and mechanical engineering as well as computer programming.

 

[Nordlys]

Safety and efficiency

Safety issues are the number one reason for using the nomenclature plus it saves time. Imagine saying “grab that board (meant 2x10 truss member) and put it on the ledge (top plate?) and attach it (use a gusset)—-lingo has it’s uses for precision and the occasional bit of humour.
By the way—my dad was a Shipwright _finishing carpenter—we called him a Wood Doctor.
Feel free to insert further puns here.

 

[Art]

Safety issues are the number one reason for using the nomenclature plus it saves time. Imagine saying “grab that board (meant 2x10 truss member) and put it on the ledge (top plate?) and attach it (use a gusset)—-lingo has it’s uses for precision and the occasional bit of humour.
By the way—my dad was a Shipwright _finishing carpenter—we called him a Wood Doctor.
Feel free to insert further puns here.

In the masonry/concrete/tile/stucco/plaster trades:

- Chicken Legs = concrete block line stretchers ["usually" can not be used for bricks]
- Line Blocks = brick line stretchers ["easily" can be used for blocks too]
- Brick Stone = carborundum stone [used for many situations of surface grinding]
- Trig = thin metal piece [to support thin-line on grade when stretched long distance]
Come-along = long handled "puller or pusher" flat-blade [for moving concrete into position while it is being poured]
- Bull Float = broad flat concrete-slab surface finisher [with articulating fastener to accept up to 30' of extension handles. Material usually mahogany or magnesium]
- Spacers = various size uniform-separators used between tiles

Having been working inside all of the "Mud Trades" lol... for 50 + years. And, having owned my own masonry, tile, concrete, stucco and plaster company for over 40 years. I'm what's termed a "Master Builder Mason"

There are many unique to the mud-trades "tool - names", in addition to those I listed above. IMO - It is equally as important to know correct nomenclature for tools in the trades... as it is to know the important to understand and use marine nomenclature when associated in and around boat doings.

 

[Cartouche]

What part of this did you not understand?



We embrace the newbies and treat you gently, until you try to change the rules. You're welcome to stay; we'll overlook your nomenclature mistakes; we won't be told that it has to be your way.

Ted

Perfectly put Ted I don't think there is any one (outside of Mr Hamilton) on this forum that would not stop everything to help a fellow boater coming into a dock. It has been my great pleasure over the years to help and share my knowledge with new Boaters that want to learn, I also enjoy learning from other boaters who are kind enough to share their secrets. Some however as you said just know it all.

 

[SteveK]

In the masonry/concrete/tile/stucco/plaster trades:

- Chicken Legs = concrete block line stretchers ["usually" can not be used for bricks]
- Line Blocks = brick line stretchers ["easily" can be used for blocks too]
- Brick Stone = carborundum stone [used for many situations of surface grinding]
- Trig = thin metal piece [to support thin-line on grade when stretched long distance]
Come-along = long handled "puller or pusher" flat-blade [for moving concrete into position while it is being poured]
- Bull Float = broad flat concrete-slab surface finisher [with articulating fastener to accept up to 30' of extension handles. Material usually mahogany or magnesium]
- Spacers = various size uniform-separators used between tiles

Having been working inside all of the "Mud Trades" lol... for 50 + years. And, having owned my own masonry, tile, concrete, stucco and plaster company for over 40 years. I'm what's termed a "Master Builder Mason"

There are many unique to the mud-trades "tool - names", in addition to those I listed above. IMO - It is equally as important to know correct nomenclature for tools in the trades... as it is to know the important to understand and use marine nomenclature when associated in and around boat doings.

Art, this thread is about calling something by a different name, Your extensive list, well what else would you call any of that stuff?

 

[Art]

Art, this thread is about calling something by a different name, Your extensive list, well what else would you call any of that stuff?

KO Steve - Sooo you asked! I will say that these and other masonry, concrete, tile, stucco tools have been so many times called as incorrect names/terms by "newbies" to the trade... I can't anyway remember all the mistakes!

- Chicken Legs = concrete block line stretchers ["usually" can not be used for bricks] Newbie names: "Pullers" / Line fasteners / Long Things with Nubs
- Line Blocks = brick line stretchers ["easily" can be used for blocks too] Newbie names: Wood Squares / Slotted Wood Pieces
- Brick Stone = carborundum stone [used for many situations of surface grinding] Newbie names: Gray-Blue Scrubbers / Stone Scraper
- Trig = thin metal piece [to support thin-line on grade when stretched long distance] Newbie names: Ice Cream Stick / Money Clip / Skinny Tin Thing
Come-along = long handled "puller or pusher" flat-blade [for moving concrete into position while it is being poured] Newbie names: Solid Rake / Flat Metal Rake
- Bull Float = broad flat concrete-slab surface finisher [with articulating fastener to accept up to 30' of extension handles. Material usually mahogany or magnesium] Newbie names: Big Finish Trowel / Flat Concrete Float
- Spacers = various size uniform-separators used between tiles Newbie names: Inserts / Spreaders

Here's my favorite - I'll never forget it!: 1970 on a masonry job in Maine a newbie walks into room where I was building a fireplace front. He asks... Where can I get a spatula? I answered... At McDonalds. He was not pleased as the mason he was working with in another sector asked him to get a tool. Irritatingly he repeats - and says... I need a spatula. I told him there is no such thing on the job. So... he wanders around until he found what he was looking for. It was a Brick Trowel. I guess if you don't care about calling things by their correct name... the word "Spatula" works for you regarding a Brick Trowel... there is weird sort of resemblance LOL.

That story is not unlike incorrect marine names/terms some newbie boaters use around boats. If a newbie feels that their incorrect names/terms are actually OK to continue using in marine doings... they are disrespectful, self-centered and not overly bright - IMO!!

 

[backinblue]

Here's my favorite - I'll never forget it!: 1970 on a masonry job in Maine a newbie walks into room where I was building a fireplace front. He asks... Where can I get a spatula? I answered... At McDonalds. He was not pleased as the mason he was working with in another sector asked him to get a tool. Irritatingly he repeats - and says... I need a spatula. I told him there is no such thing on the job. So... he wanders around until he found what he was looking for. It was a Brick Trowel. I guess if you don't care about calling things by their correct name... the word "Spatula" works for you regarding a Brick Trowel... there is weird sort of resemblance LOL.

Good story but I wonder what the mason in the other sector asked the newbie to go get. Shouldn't he have used the right term in his request from the newbie? It's like a mechanic working on an engine and asks someone assisting him to go to the tool chest and get him a wrench, or even a screwdriver, or almost anything else.

 

[Efftea]

Just wondering if I am the only one that really don't see the necessity of nautical terms. Is it really a sin to call a bathroom a bathroom on a boat? or right and left, or bedroom, and does it make any difference if you call a rope a rope, and a kitchen a kitchen? What is the reason for this lingo? Are we cool cuz we have our own language and are part of a exclusive club that feels it is important to call a wall a bulk head? I am a carpenter by trade and you know what guys that are ashamed of being a carpenter call themselves... a "housewright" I guess having a club with its own clever lingo is fun but is it really necessary?

I've been sailing for a bunch of years and can tell you how important it is to use the correct lingo on a boat. it makes you aware of who has had experience on the water ICE / "pull that rope !!!" "What one? there are 27 of them??" If you are not going to have any sort of emergency, just use any terminology you want to use..... BUT, then you will have an emergency, so on and so forth.

 

[SteveK]

Art, I am shocked you did not tell him it was around the corner hanging on a sky hook.
Spatula is used for food, how the newb could not see his leg was being pulled.

The balance of alternate names are not names meaning another thing like right/left starboard/port at least right/left resembles the correct name.

 

[FF]

"Just wondering if I am the only one that really don't see the necessity of nautical terms. Is it really a sin to call a bathroom a bathroom on a boat?"

Not a sin , but it does not convey what is being discussed.

The ceiling in a house is over your head ,,, the ceiling in a vessel is the usually wood trim against the side of the hull.

Makes a big difference if someone says "there is water flowing thru the ceiling".

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Here's my favorite - I'll never forget it!: 1970 on a masonry job in Maine a newbie walks into room where I was building a fireplace front. He asks... Where can I get a spatula? I answered... At McDonalds. He was not pleased as the mason he was working with in another sector asked him to get a tool. Irritatingly he repeats - and says... I need a spatula. I told him there is no such thing on the job. So... he wanders around until he found what he was looking for. It was a Brick Trowel. I guess if you don't care about calling things by their correct name... the word "Spatula" works for you regarding a Brick Trowel... there is weird sort of resemblance LOL.

Good story but I wonder what the mason in the other sector asked the newbie to go get. Shouldn't he have used the right term in his request from the newbie? It's like a mechanic working on an engine and asks someone assisting him to go to the tool chest and get him a wrench, or even a screwdriver, or almost anything else.

I think this experienced mason was having fun with the apprentice. I've worked in boat yards where newbies were sent to the beach to look for some "shore line" and on naval vessels where young recruits are given binoculars and tasked with looking for "mail buoys". It's all in good fun and part of being initiated into the trade.

The nautical terms (that should be) used by those operating vessels is only one layer of this cake, boat building terms are even richer and describe very specific components, king plank, shear clamp, gudgeon, pintle, keelson, stem, bilge keel, ceiling, garboard, etc. During my time working in boat yards you earned the respect of your peers when using the correct terms, and you might be derided if you didn't, it was a good school and you learned quickly.

Personally, I prefer saloon over salon, I'd rather be associated with a bar than a beauty parlor...

 

[Hippocampus]

Boats aren’t democracies. There’s a MASTER. When you’re the master others are to follow your commands first and ask questions later. I’ve been fortunate as a owner/operator often being the least experienced and credentialed of those on the boat. Crew has been all RYA or unlimited ocean captains from various countries. In spite of that given I’m the master they do what I say (and educate me after the evolution if they deem necessary). Given what ever they do I’m the one held responsible. It’s just like the navy. The master of the vessel has the right to give orders and expect they will be followed. The orders must be given in a clear, understandable fashion. In exchange he(she) is responsible for the outcome.
This is not a master/slave relationship. The crew has voluntarily given up the right to not follow commands. They accepted the obligation to be commanded. Hence, as Obrian titles his book while owner/operator you are Master and Commander much like the captain of the flag ship of the admiral . The master is only master for the duration of that passage. But that relationship is recognized by every nation in the world and the law of the sea. To do otherwise is mutiny.
As Master and commander I dictate proper usage of the vessel and proper language. Don’t like it then don’t sign on.

 

[Hippocampus]

There’s a difference between “you have the helm” and “you have command”. Both when serving as crew or captain I’ve said or been told those two phrases. Here’s yet another example where the nautical meaning of a phrase is very specific and carries great implications the landlubber probably wouldn’t appreciate.

 

[Art]

I think this experienced mason was having fun with the apprentice. I've worked in boat yards where newbies were sent to the beach to look for some "shore line" and on naval vessels where young recruits are given binoculars and tasked with looking for "mail buoys". It's all in good fun and part of being initiated into the trade.

The nautical terms (that should be) used by those operating vessels is only one layer of this cake, boat building terms are even richer and describe very specific components, king plank, shear clamp, gudgeon, pintle, keelson, stem, bilge keel, ceiling, garboard, etc. During my time working in boat yards you earned the respect of your peers when using the correct terms, and you might be derided if you didn't, it was a good school and you learned quickly.

Personally, I prefer saloon over salon, I'd rather be associated with a bar than a beauty parlor...

Personally I prefer salon over saloon... cause... I don't drink alcohol and there are usually more women than men in a salon than a saloon... Pretty and fixed-up sober girls that is! LOL

I too spent years [mid to late teens] working in boat yards alongside boatwrights. Also about a year in a new boat builder constructing with both wood and fiberglass. Atop that, from upper grade school [about 4th grade on] I worked on our family boats with dad... he knew a lot and was good teacher. Those many years in and around marine doings always pleased the heck out of me. I learned a bunch that I still utilize many decades later. Must admit - have forgotten many of the boatbuilding portion-terms used in the boatbuilding and boar repair locations I worked.

Regarding the apprentice that was [in 1970] looking for a "spatula" [his term, when he was sent to locate a brick trowel]. Although it kinda ticked me off at the time, because he was a bit arrogant that his name for the tool [spatula] was as good as the correct one [brick trowel]... we eventually became good friends. And, he learned to use the correct term - Brick Trowel!!

Soooo... That which I mention in paragraph above - kinda reminds me of this thread: Maybe the landlubber who began this thread, specifically for his own good of utilizing landlubber terms instead of boat-savvy nautical terms, will also eventually learn to "speak" correctly in the presence of old-salt boaters.

What say you... charlesamilton??

 

[SteveK]

Is a brick trowel still called a brick trowel when flipping burgers?

 

[Benthic2]

I think the thread has drifted from the OP's question. My interpretation was that he was questioning the need for redundant terms such as galley/kitchen.....head/bathroom.....deck floor....etc. When specificity is required it's required. There is a difference between a bow line and a spring line....a jib sheet and a main sheet. It seems that a lot of people went strawman on the OP and defended the use of terms of specificity, but I don't think that was the question. And then OMG....the need for port and starboard was established in the first 3 responses and then flogged to death another hundred times. Then everyone piled on the OP and I'm sure he will never be back.

His question was regarding redundant terms and is no less valid than can I navigate with my cell phone or what does this symbol on a chart mean.

 

[backinblue]

I think the thread has drifted from the OP's question. My interpretation was that he was questioning the need for redundant terms such as galley/kitchen.....head/bathroom.....deck floor....etc. When specificity is required it's required. There is a difference between a bow line and a spring line....a jib sheet and a main sheet. It seems that a lot of people went strawman on the OP and defended the use of terms of specificity, but I don't think that was the question. And then OMG....the need for port and starboard was established in the first 3 responses and then flogged to death another hundred times. Then everyone piled on the OP and I'm sure he will never be back.

His question was regarding redundant terms and is no less valid than can I navigate with my cell phone or what does this symbol on a chart mean.

I get what you are saying, but it's not always clear or agreed upon what is redundant. In the OP's mind, port and starboard were redundant. I could argue that a "kitchen" is a room, whereas a "galley" is an area where food is cooked and prepared. On my boat, the galley is in the saloon (or salon) for instance. But I really wouldn't call it a kitchen.

Here's one of my favorite non-nautical head-scratchers. "Biweekly". It can mean twice a week or once every 2 weeks. So if someone says we should meet biweekly, it's not clear what that means!