Need opinions

[kpinnn]

I have a trawler 36 ft. In it is a 5kw westerbeke generator with about 300 hours. It is about 10 years old. The diesel runs fine but the generator has quit. Did some smoking but have not been able to accurately check windings or electronics. On board we also have electric stove microwave and hot water heater. Found out the people I hired to remove the generator are removing the engine and everything. If I let them do this it would be a perfect time to go with inverter and increase the battery bank. I am also installing 310 watts of solar. Any thoughts?
Ken

 

[long-cours.62]

Probabely need more than 380w in solar panel.
We have 1200 w only for service. In mid day it can run induction cooker. Water heater could be in sunny day but never tried. 800 w it is what give our solar pannel of 1200w. We start generator only for washing machine and when made bread

 

[twistedtree]

An inverter is great for power without running a generator, but it will draw down the batteries and then you need to recharge them, typically with a generator assuming you are anchoring out.

An inverter and batteries typically go and in hand with a generator, not as a replacement. It allows for periodic generator run time rather than continuous generator run time. But you still need the generator, with two exceptions:

1) you have lots of solar that can consistently and reliably meet all you power needs. And even then, there will still be times when they don’t meet your needs and you will need to have a backup. This could be running your main engine+alternator, but for often is a generator. It’s also rare (but not impossible) to be able to fit enough solar without shading issues to meet a boat’s full power needs

2) you rarely anchor out and always return to a dock with power every night.

And under any of these conditions if you want to run HVAC, you will still a generator.

So it should come as no surprise that my suggestion would be to repair/replace the generator, and augment with inverter and battery so gen time can be limited to select times of day a duration.

 

[kpinnn]

Tanks guys. I guess I already knew this just hoped I would hear something diffrtent.

 

[Lepke]

While I have generators, since installing an inverter years ago, use my generators only about 10% as much as before. I have dedicated inverter bank alternators on each main engine. So if I anchor for a night and run to the next anchorage, my inverter bank is full when I get there. And I run a reefer, 2 freezers and other 120/240 while running. Generator gets run when I anchor for more than 2-3 days, and do laundry, make water, etc. I could just about do without a generator.

 

[psneeld]

When my old genny went bad, used Broward Armature and Generator to rebuild the Gen 1/2. I was always worried about the diesel part but with little to no maintenance, that lasted 30 years and I think is still going (sold boat 2 years ago). Marine Repair Remanufactured Generators, Motors, Pumps, Thrusters

Unless you have a huge solar array and battery bank a genset is a good idea. Now I do say with my smaller solar array and battery bank I did use a small gas powered Honda 1000 genny to charge the batteries rather than the 8kW diesel genny..... but to run heaters or air conditioners, a large diesel genny is still usually the most practical power source.

 

[Hippocampus]

We had a northern lights on the last sailboat. Back upped by two D400s and two house sized solar panels. But every aspect of the boat was spec’d for efficiency down to a DC watermaker.

Current boat has two house sized panels and no wind generators. Have 6 AGM golf carts for hotel loads and 3 AGM Ds for engines and thrusters. Have high output alt. It’s not enough. Periodically still need the Onan even if we never run the SeaKeeper. Think most motorboats aren’t spec’d with the same compulsiveness to be energy efficient. At anchor we use more juice even though the sailboat was a bit bigger.

Think most of us (especially on the US east coast) are stuck needing a genset if we anchor out a bunch.

 

[folivier]

I agree a generator is the simplest solution. But for kicks spend some time reading about what some RV guys have done using solar and LiFePO4 batteries. From vans to large motorhomes and all in between these guys have done neat things to survive without a generator, or a small generator for supplemental charging. Some are even using inverter mini split air conditioners powered by solar and batteries. Not cheap but doable.

 

[rslifkin]

We had a northern lights on the last sailboat. Back upped by two D400s and two house sized solar panels. But every aspect of the boat was spec’d for efficiency down to a DC watermaker.

Current boat has two house sized panels and no wind generators. Have 6 AGM golf carts for hotel loads and 3 AGM Ds for engines and thrusters. Have high output alt. It’s not enough. Periodically still need the Onan even if we never run the SeaKeeper. Think most motorboats aren’t spec’d with the same compulsiveness to be energy efficient. At anchor we use more juice even though the sailboat was a bit bigger.

Think most of us (especially on the US east coast) are stuck needing a genset if we anchor out a bunch.

I think it's a combination of worrying less about energy efficiency on powerboats, but also boats with generators in general. And sometimes it's also a matter of what equipment you have space for as far as both power consumers and power sources. Lack of a good spot for a wind gen on most powerboats means you need more solar, but depending on the boat design, you're often limited in how much solar you can fit.

Currently my setup with 820w solar and a 415ah AGM house bank covers pretty much everything except cooking and hot water. For those we still need to run the generator for an hour or so in the evening. The next step will be a bigger house bank (and going to LiFePO4) and a bigger inverter setup. And then when I build a hard top to replace our current bimini, more solar (target is to get close to 2kw). At that point we'll only need the generator if we want HVAC or for occasional battery charging (mostly in bad weather), but we should be able to support everything on solar/battery most of the time. My best estimate for daily power use for all purposes on our boat is around 7 kwh. That's for hot water, cooking, ice maker, fridge, and other regular house loads.

 

[Hippocampus]

All good points r. But nowadays nearly all cruising boats (sail&power) have gensets and pretty much the same infill. Same comforts of home. Same AC, WM, HVAC, cooking, clothes washing, frig/freezer and such. But there’s a wide variance in efficiency between available brands. Think the first line in your post is spot on.

 

[DavidM]

Broward Armateur is a good outfit to repair your generator’s electrical end. Pull it off (should be lots easier than removing the whole thing), send it to them to repair, then put it back on.

David

 

[rslifkin]

All good points r. But nowadays nearly all cruising boats (sail&power) have gensets and pretty much the same infill. Same comforts of home. Same AC, WM, HVAC, cooking, clothes washing, frig/freezer and such. But there’s a wide variance in efficiency between available brands. Think the first line in your post is spot on.

Another thought is that higher end brands probably pick their equipment a bit more carefully. And I'd bet boats where the owners get to choose at least some of the equipment will tend to be more efficient than the "you get what you get" production boats.

 

[READY]

One alternative would be a high output alternator with a decent sized lithium bank. If you run your engine during hig use (like the stove) you may get by with solar and batteries most of the time. Probably will need a little more solar but you can always start the engine. My 48 foot boat needs about 200-400 watts just for basic use (LED lighting, house size refrigerator, TV, etc). The one item you likely could not run (at least for long) is AC.

 

[SteveK]

Over the past week started my generator twice and ran for approx two hours to top up the LFP bank @200A per hour. What I like best with the 800Ah LFP setup is you do not need to fully charge, just enough to meet the needs.
We cook on induction stovetop and regular electric oven through the inverter, the charge when needed. Currently the 2 main engines can charge at 100A per hour, again able to top up. If I run the GEN while travelling I have charged at 260A.
The system can run off batteries for two days before needing a charge.

 

[Gdavid]

I would cancel the work order to have the generator removed until you are sure about your plans. Replacing the generator end is much cheaper than the entire generator which can grow into a much bigger project as you may find yourself replacing the fuels supply lines, exhaust, controls, AC wiring, etc, it also may reduce resale on the boat. It will probably take longer to find someone to do this job as they are motivated by the markup of selling an entire generator.

How you use the boat as well as your climate and the seasons that you use the boat should drive this decision. In my area, the summer is primary boating season so having a generator to run air conditioning is a major consideration. However, many cruisers end up spending practically every night at the dock, either at the your home port or transient slips, so they really rarely use the genset and that is not good for them at all, running them regularly with a healthy load warms up the generator end helps them survive in an otherwise humid environment. This could be the case of your current situation.

I would consider a free standing inverter/battery bank with a lithium iron phosphate battery LiFePO4 chemistry. They are pretty affordable, require no installation.