Listen to your Wife

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Met two Canadian families in the USA: on the San Juan River and in San Francisco. Both said they went out of their way to obtain medical treatment in USA because Canadian service was untimely.

Recently had open-heart surgery which cost $250 out-of-pocket. Of course, I pay monthly to USA government and a private organization for health-care coverage.

Wifey B: There is a queue in Canada, but it's only the case with elective and non urgent treatment and surgeries.

If you're a typical person your age, your total medical care is about $20,000 per year. You pay probably $3,000-4,000 for premiums plus $3,000 out of pocket, plus the government pays the rest and collects 2.9% of all salaries up to certain limits. You are on a government funded plan, but one most people aren't eligible for. :)

I admit I would hate the queue's in many countries. Doesn't mean I'd be harmed by them though.:ermm:
 
What? If you have a health issue and you can’t even see a doctor for six months because of queues and you die waiting for health care, you would damned sure be harmed.
$20,000/ year? Where the hell do you come up with that figure?
Everyone is eligible for the plan I’m on. You just have to be willing to have SAMs the size of telephone poles shot at you over the skies of Baghdad.
 
What? Good lord.

Btw, the V A system is the worst healthcare available anywhere. That’s the poster child of why the government shouldn’t be involved in healthcare.

And yes, our healthcare is the best on earth. If you don’t think so, go to England when you get sick.


Bryant, The VA has had issues certainly. I have to tell you though, that I’ve been practicing near a large VA facility as well as a large DOD medical facility. The care they provide is generally excellent. Issues they have had with timeliness of service to vets have been a major focus and they are improving. I’ve also been involved with accrediting VA specialty residency programs and every one that I reviewed, was simply outstanding.

So your claim that the VA “is the worst healthcare available anywhere” is so blatantly off base that it calls into question your other blanket statements. FWIW, I have never practiced within the VA system.

However, I would be interested in hearing, from your perspective, what changes if any should be made? You have stated that US healthcare is excellent, and for very good reasons. You have also said that it is too expensive due to government interference. So what specifically, if anything, would you like changed?
 
Listen to spouse

So what we can learn is that communication is key.
 
Oh God, it's still going.....

Sigh.
 
just calling BS. Something I’ve never noticed you to be particularly shy about. :socool:

I know, it's a real bad habit I have that keeps getting me into trouble.

Too much that time?
 
I know, it's a real bad habit I have that keeps getting me into trouble.

Too much that time?

Nah. Just an issue I’m tired of seeing misrepresented. You were in the crossfire. :flowers:
 
...

If you're a typical person your age, your total medical care is about $20,000 per year. You pay probably $3,000-4,000 for premiums plus $3,000 out of pocket, plus the government pays the rest and collects 2.9% of all salaries up to certain limits. You are on a government funded plan, but one most people aren't eligible for. :) ...

You've made assumptions. I'm on Medicare but don't feel subsidized as I pay $504 a month for single coverage. Pay nearly the same on a private plan to fill holes in Medicare coverage. Out-of-pocket is minimal in relation to insurance cost. None of the coverage includes elective procedures. .... My employer paid for about half of my insurance cost, but that stopped when reaching 65 and Medicare stepped in. So, with Medicare, my health insurance costs doubled.
 
You've made assumptions. I'm on Medicare but don't feel subsidized as I pay $504 a month for single coverage. Pay nearly the same on a private plan to fill holes in Medicare coverage. Out-of-pocket is minimal in relation to insurance cost. None of the coverage includes elective procedures. .... My employer paid for about half of my insurance cost, but that stopped when reaching 65 and Medicare stepped in. So, with Medicare, my health insurance costs doubled.


Mark, I hate to break the news to you, but I and every other working person in the US is subsidizing your Medicare coverage.

Medicare Part A, your hospital coverage, is paid for by payroll taxes. Every employee pays 1.45% of their gross pay to cover Medicare. Every employer pays 1.45% of their employees gross pay to cover Medicare. As a self employed person, I pay the full 2.9% of my income to fund Medicare Part A.

Medicare Part B is paid for through your insurance premiums, as well as funds from the US general fund. The premiums that you and other Medicare recipients pay, only provide 1/3 of the income to cover Medicare Part B. Most of the rest comes from the General Fund, ie all of our taxes.

So, you are paying a very, very small amount of the real cost of your Medicare Part A and B. In other words, the lions share of the cost of your medical insurance coverage is being subsidized.

BTW, while you were working and had a very nice insurance plan through your employer, everyone else was also subsidizing it since you didn’t pay any income taxes on those employer provided insurance benefits.
 
Mark, I hate to break the news to you, but I and every other working person in the US is subsidizing your Medicare coverage.


Every person with insurance is subsidizing several other people with/without insurance. ObamaCare’s scheme is/was a shakedown to perpetuate subsidization for those with no desire to work.
 
Every person with insurance is subsidizing several other people with/without insurance.


To a point. There are two different issues. The first, and maybe what you are concentrating on, is that everyone that pays for medical services, either privately or via insurance, is subsidizing the care that is provided to those that don’t have any insurance or means to pay. This happens primarily in the amounts that are paid to hospitals who get stuck with unreimbursed care.

However, insurance isn’t really a subsidy. It is just shared risk pool. So if we have the same boat insurance carrier and you don’t have any claims but I do, your aren’t really subsidizing me insurance since we both were paying premiums based on risk.
 
You've made assumptions. I'm on Medicare but don't feel subsidized as I pay $504 a month for single coverage. Pay nearly the same on a private plan to fill holes in Medicare coverage. Out-of-pocket is minimal in relation to insurance cost. None of the coverage includes elective procedures. .... My employer paid for about half of my insurance cost, but that stopped when reaching 65 and Medicare stepped in. So, with Medicare, my health insurance costs doubled.

No, she also knows what the government spends (and they collected from employer and employee) for the average person on Medicare. You can't compare an employer's plan spends to what medicare spends. Employer's plans are based on their total population. A 65 year old on an employer plan benefits from the 22 year old employee. When you crossed the age of 65, the cost of covering you tripled. People 45-64 years old cost more than double those 18-44 and people over 65 cost almost double those 45-64 and 2.5 to 3 times what the average person insured by a group plan costs. Now, from 65 on, your costs continue to rise as you age with the peak around 92-93.

A couple of numbers. The current Medicare Capitation Rate is $940.81 per person per month for those not with End Stage Renal Disease. That's in addition to whatever you pay and does not include drug costs which are another $3000 or so a year. For those on dialysis it is $7,795 per month.

Now, I'd suggest listening to your wife and to my wife.
 
Limited

Bryant, The VA has had issues certainly. I have to tell you though, that I’ve been practicing near a large VA facility as well as a large DOD medical facility. The care they provide is generally excellent. Issues they have had with timeliness of service to vets have been a major focus and they are improving. I’ve also been involved with accrediting VA specialty residency programs and every one that I reviewed, was simply outstanding.

So your claim that the VA “is the worst healthcare available anywhere” is so blatantly off base that it calls into question your other blanket statements. FWIW, I have never practiced within the VA system.

However, I would be interested in hearing, from your perspective, what changes if any should be made? You have stated that US healthcare is excellent, and for very good reasons. You have also said that it is too expensive due to government interference. So what specifically, if anything, would you like changed?

Yes, there are individual locations within the VA system that do pretty well. However, the system as a whole is totally bogged down by govt incompetence and bureaucracy. I have a friend who waited a year for an appointment for eye surgery. The news has been rife with horror stories over the years about the overall level of care within the system. I don’t know how to fix that. My observation is that this is the reason the govt shouldn’t run our healthcare.
As to the costs of healthcare in general, the first thing that has to happen is that we have to remove the 20,000,000 people who are here illegally who are receiving free care that the rest of us are paying for. Medicare and Medicaid fraud costs billions per year and needs to be dealt with. Single payer healthcare would be a disaster and the only way to combat that is to elect a govt that doesn’t use free giveaways to buy votes. Programs such as Health savings accounts and tax incentives to people who purchase their own health care might help as well. Honestly, requiring a little personal responsibility for people who can afford healthcare but choose to buy TVs, trucks or other things instead might help as well. If you use the healthcare system, you should have to pay for services received. If hospitals didn’t have to eat the costs of providing care to so many people who don’t pay then maybe the cost to the rest of us wouldn’t be so high.
I’m no expert but I can see many problems with the cost. But the cost has nothing to do with the quality and my original point was that people from all over the world come to one place for serious health care and it ain’t Timbuktu.
 
Yes, there are individual locations within the VA system that do pretty well. However, the system as a whole is totally bogged down by govt incompetence and bureaucracy. I have a friend who waited a year for an appointment for eye surgery. The news has been rife with horror stories over the years about the overall level of care within the system. I don’t know how to fix that. My observation is that this is the reason the govt shouldn’t run our healthcare.
As to the costs of healthcare in general, the first thing that has to happen is that we have to remove the 20,000,000 people who are here illegally who are receiving free care that the rest of us are paying for. Medicare and Medicaid fraud costs billions per year and needs to be dealt with. Single payer healthcare would be a disaster and the only way to combat that is to elect a govt that doesn’t use free giveaways to buy votes. Programs such as Health savings accounts and tax incentives to people who purchase their own health care might help as well. Honestly, requiring a little personal responsibility for people who can afford healthcare but choose to buy TVs, trucks or other things instead might help as well. If you use the healthcare system, you should have to pay for services received. If hospitals didn’t have to eat the costs of providing care to so many people who don’t pay then maybe the cost to the rest of us wouldn’t be so high.
I’m no expert but I can see many problems with the cost. But the cost has nothing to do with the quality and my original point was that people from all over the world come to one place for serious health care and it ain’t Timbuktu.

You can repeat this crap as many times as you wish, but won't make it true. Wifey B and I are both out of this thread unless it returns to the initial topic.
 
Limiting

You can repeat this crap as many times as you wish, but won't make it true. Wifey B and I are both out of this thread unless it returns to the initial topic.

I’m simply replying to the thread as it progressed. If that upsets you and Wifey B, then buh bye.
And yes, what I’ve said is factual and true. Sorry if it hurts your feelings.
 
I’m feeling much better , follow up with doc in a few days...very grateful....
 
..... Wifey B and I are both out of this thread unless it returns to the initial topic.


Coming back to the original purpose of this thread, well almost back, it wasn't my wife I listened to but a crew mate and close personal friend. When somene who cares about you says to the ER, listen and go to the ER!

My story is I showed up at the boat day of departure with what I was calling a sore finger. I'd spend the previous days with a needle gun and grinder tending to steel workboat needs. It wasn't at all unusal for me to be uncomfortable after a few days of that kind of fun, but this was worse than normal. And my right index finger was swollen and an angry red.

My friend / crew mate tells me I need to go the ER, but I say no. We've got a trip, it's just a short one, 4 days. I'll have it checked out when we get back. Finally I relented and went to the nearest ER where the on call Doc took a look and called in a specialist. Specialist says "It looks like you'll be here a while." I'm thinking hours and ask if they can hurry it up, boat's loaded and ready to go, I haven't got time to waste. "No, you won't be here hours, it will be days!"

I had an infection in the tendon sheath caused by a small nick in the index finger. But the time I was prepped for surgery the angry red swelling was running up my arm. The surgeon said I was hours from loosing my hand and a day from loosing my life. I'm glad I gave in and went to the ER!
 
Coming back to the original purpose of this thread, well almost back, it wasn't my wife I listened to but a crew mate and close personal friend. When somene who cares about you says to the ER, listen and go to the ER!

My story is I showed up at the boat day of departure with what I was calling a sore finger. I'd spend the previous days with a needle gun and grinder tending to steel workboat needs. It wasn't at all unusal for me to be uncomfortable after a few days of that kind of fun, but this was worse than normal. And my right index finger was swollen and an angry red.

My friend / crew mate tells me I need to go the ER, but I say no. We've got a trip, it's just a short one, 4 days. I'll have it checked out when we get back. Finally I relented and went to the nearest ER where the on call Doc took a look and called in a specialist. Specialist says "It looks like you'll be here a while." I'm thinking hours and ask if they can hurry it up, boat's loaded and ready to go, I haven't got time to waste. "No, you won't be here hours, it will be days!"

I had an infection in the tendon sheath caused by a small nick in the index finger. But the time I was prepped for surgery the angry red swelling was running up my arm. The surgeon said I was hours from loosing my hand and a day from loosing my life. I'm glad I gave in and went to the ER!

Day-um!

I hope you bought your buddy a bottle of the best whatever-he-drank you could find.
 
As to the costs of healthcare in general, the first thing that has to happen is that we have to remove the 20,000,000 people who are here illegally who are receiving free care that the rest of us are paying for. Medicare and Medicaid fraud costs billions per year and needs to be dealt with. Single payer healthcare would be a disaster and the only way to combat that is to elect a govt that doesn’t use free giveaways to buy votes. Programs such as Health savings accounts and tax incentives to people who purchase their own health care might help as well.


Thanks for your ideas.

There are only about 10.5 million undocumented immigrants in the US. Children to the age of 18 are eligible for healthcare coverage through the CHIP program, although the participation level is extremely low. Maybe from a fear of deportation. A few states allow undocumented immigrants to participate in Medicaid. Some can get care in So of the remaining 4 million undocumented immigrants, some of those do get primary care through some of the federally funded health care centers which have sliding fees based on income. Also, emergency care is provided to anyone in hospitals with emergency rooms.

So, that leaves 5.5-6 million illegal immigrants who aren’t getting medical care in the US. So, that leaves about 5 million who are receiving unreimbursed healthcare in the US. Hate to say it, but those 5 million aren’t the reason healthcare costs are high.

Medicaid and Medicare billing errors are a real thing. Just not as significant as some would like you to believe. It is a big deal, I think improper billing of Medicare amounts to 10-12% of Medicare payments. However, over half of those are considered improper documentation. The general rule in medical billing is that if it isn’t documented, it wasn’t done.

Further more, if a Doc provides say a Level 5 service, but didn’t check all the right boxes in their record, then that visit may be downcoded to maybe a Level 3 service which would have 1/2 the reimbursement. The auditors don’t argue that the service wasn’t provided, only that every documentation data point wasn’t checked off. Kind of like not paying your mechanic for the oil change just because they didn’t enter it into your Maintenance Log. Never mind the empty oil containers and new filters on the engine.

Fraud does happen. I’ve actually participated in investigations against my peers as they were prosecuted for Medicaid Fraud. Fortunately, they no longer have a license. Even so, there is no more problems with fraud in the public programs than there is int he private programs. However, it isn’t the reason healthcare costs are increasing either.

I LOVE my health savings account. It doesn’t really lower healthcare costs, but it is the absolute best retirement vehicle available. No tax when the money is earned. No tax on the earnings. No tax when the money is spent on medical services or prescriptions.

A single payer system isn’t perfect and may have problems that aren’t anticipated, but right away it would save up to 25% of hospital and provider costs and likely save 10% on administrative overhead on the part of the payor. That would be real money.
 
Dave, I had a health savings account while working, but it is no longer offered after retirement. Are there private options as far as you know?
 
...
A single payer system isn’t perfect and may have problems that aren’t anticipated, but right away it would save up to 25% of hospital and provider costs and likely save 10% on administrative overhead on the part of the payor. That would be real money.

Don't believe if the only source of health care was the government could be as desirable if only McDonald's was the only source of hamburgers. (Quote for the day.)
 
Don't believe if the only source of health care was the government could be as desirable if only McDonald's was the only source of hamburgers.

You're comparing providing health care to providing hamburgers?

Houston, we have a problem.
 
You're comparing providing health care to providing hamburgers?

Houston, we have a problem.

You missed the point. I like to have choices.
 
You missed the point. I like to have choices.

You missed the point.

Listen to your wife - that was the point being made. :)

Wait - does she do great hamburgers?
 
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Dave, I had a health savings account while working, but it is no longer offered after retirement. Are there private options as far as you know?


HSA are only available in conjunction with a Qualified High Deductible Health Plan. When folks are Medicare eligible HSAs are no longer available. Unfortunately. So I have another 4 years to contribute as much as possible. Since there are two of us, that is is $8,000 a year.
 
Don't believe if the only source of health care was the government could be as desirable if only McDonald's was the only source of hamburgers. (Quote for the day.)


Don’t confuse single payer with single provider.
 
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