License requirements to operate in the Med?

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davekram

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NeverLand
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Hi, newbie here, first post. I'm planning to purchase a motorboat (likely a 45-60' powercat or semi-displacement trawler) in the eastern Med (i.e. Turkey, Greece) and cruise for a year with my wife and son.

I'm struggling to figure out what type of license I'll need to purchase, get insured and operate in the various countries around the Med.

ICC? IPC? SLC? USCG?

I spoke to a boat broker in Europe today who said I don't need one at all, which I find hard to believe. But who knows!

Would appreciate any guidance anyone has on this subject.

Thanks so much!
 
There is a website named "Noonsight" that is supposedly a handy tool for all the legal and more stuff for every cruising destination.

I believe it's free but you do have to register like here.
 
Hi, in the EU it is regulated that the requirements of your home country apply. So you must have the license that would be required in your home country to sail in the respective area.

As for insurance, I think you need to insure the boat at home with mediterranean coverage.

For non EU countries i don't know.
 
No license is required to operate. We’ve boated in 47 countries/territories and a license has not been a requirement

Insurance will be most likely required to go into most European marinas but I think it would be inadvisable to cruise in Europe without insurance. An accident anywhere and you may be detained till it gets sorted out.

I’d start with an insurance agent before the purchase to make sure you can get insurance. Pantaenius writes policies for European boats as does Zurich.

Sounds like a great adventure. Keep us posted.
 
Hi,

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/us-citizens/

https://emozzy.com/buying-a-boat-in-europe-guide/

And you should find out the EU VAT / Tax rules with particular precision. Because your home country US.

NBs
 
Hi, newbie here, first post. I'm planning to purchase a motorboat (likely a 45-60' powercat or semi-displacement trawler) in the eastern Med (i.e. Turkey, Greece) and cruise for a year with my wife and son.

I'm struggling to figure out what type of license I'll need to purchase, get insured and operate in the various countries around the Med.

ICC? IPC? SLC? USCG?

I spoke to a boat broker in Europe today who said I don't need one at all, which I find hard to believe. But who knows!

Would appreciate any guidance anyone has on this subject.

Thanks so much!

When we cruised in the Mediterranean, 2007-2010 the Schengen rules were haphazardly enforced and we remained within Schengen Europe for over 3 years without issue. Now I understand that you are taking a real risk if you breach the "maximum three months in then minimum three months out" rules for Schengen countries*. In your situation I would worry more about this aspect than the items you mention which are not obstacles. I was only once asked for a license, that was in an Italian port, I showed my Yachtmaster Ocean credential which satisfied them even though they could not read it! Marinas generally wanted to see proof of insurance for longer term stays. Noonsite can provide you with contemporary ancedotal info on cruisers working their way within or around the Schengen rules.

*There are 26 Schengen countries: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France , Germany , Greece, Hungary , Iceland , Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland. You could bounce between Schengen Greece/Italy and non-Schengen Turkey/Croatia for example and stay legal but it is more of a problem in western Europe where your options for a non-Schengen country are less attractive (Morocco, Tunisia, Gibraltar for example).
~A
 
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I think there are a number of mostly independent considerations.

The OP asked about licensing to operate a boat.

Also brought up and to be considered are Schengen rules which are about YOU, not your boat.

Then there are VAT rules about how long the boat can remain in any given area before VAT is triggered, and possibly importation and registering rules. And that brings in CE requirements for the boat itself.

Anecdotally, I have heard of people being asked for operator permits, and I think if asked, you really want to have SOMETHING to give them. And the more “official” the better. I would think the minimum would be a state boater Ed certificate. Personally I wouldn’t want to be empty handed, and that’s one reason I maintain my USCG license.
 
Thanks y’all. My takeaway from this is it’s not necessary to operate, but probably a good idea to have something in hand, which i agree and it’s easy enough to get a state ID.

I reached out to Pantaenius insurance and they don’t insure anyone in the US.

For licensing, they said “The matter of license is only of relevance for Third Party Liability cover and reads as follows:

The following are excluded:
1. Liability claims arising from loss events which occur whilst the Vessel, its dinghies or water sport equipment:
a) is operated by a responsible person who does not possess the necessary official license for operating the Vessel.

To say which licenses are required in which countries is not possible for us, as those statutes can change from day to day.

For our Hull insurance the matter of license does not apply.”


I think they’re saying the same thing… as long as you’re licensed correctly to operate the vehicle you are covered. Which I think means from your country of origin or potentially where you’re flagged (?).
 
Flagged and country of the operator to my limited understanding.
For most I believe a certificate of competency is plenty unless on a large >20m vessel.
 
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Quick follow-up on this. I've decided to take an online IYT course for 24M Powerboat, which is free, and then plan to get a 1 day "check out" at one of their partner schools to issue me an ICC certification for 24M Power. I spoke to one of their partner schools (Victor at Tiller and Kites in Phoenix) and he can do the whole thing in a day for around $1k. I think it's worth my peace of mind to have an ICC certification should any of the authorities in the Med ask me for it. :)
 
I'm in Türkiye. I'm also a regular visitor to Greece. Turkish authorities will routinely ask to see the Captain's licence - I'm not sure what the reaction would be if you didn't have one. I've never been asked in Greece. Both countries require you to have 3rd party insurance and I'm pretty sure this is true in all EU countries. You will need to apply for temporary importation and get a transit log when entering either country - 5 years renewable annually in Türkiye and 18 months in Greece. Greece also charges a cruising tax payable by the calendar month.
PS - Croatia is a Shengen country since yesterday.
 
Croatia is Schengen as of last month.
 
I'm in Türkiye. I'm also a regular visitor to Greece. Turkish authorities will routinely ask to see the Captain's licence - I'm not sure what the reaction would be if you didn't have one. I've never been asked in Greece. Both countries require you to have 3rd party insurance and I'm pretty sure this is true in all EU countries. You will need to apply for temporary importation and get a transit log when entering either country - 5 years renewable annually in Türkiye and 18 months in Greece. Greece also charges a cruising tax payable by the calendar month.
PS - Croatia is a Shengen country since yesterday.
I had another look at the opening post and it seems you are planning to buy a boat locally. This raises the question of registration or flag. This would not be a problem if you bought a Turkish flagged boat in Türkiye and you would have no difficulty taking this boat to Greece under Temporary Admission. However, as far as I'm aware, you have to be an EU citizen or a permanent resident to register a boat in Greece or any other EU country. Another option would be to place the boat in the ownership of a company and get US state registration. There are many boats sailing in Türkiye and elsewhere in Europe with US flags and Delaware registration. This is probably not strictly legal as only USCG registration is valid internationally but the authorities just turn a blind eye.
 
USCG no problem

I had another look at the opening post and it seems you are planning to buy a boat locally. This raises the question of registration or flag. This would not be a problem if you bought a Turkish flagged boat in Türkiye and you would have no difficulty taking this boat to Greece under Temporary Admission. However, as far as I'm aware, you have to be an EU citizen or a permanent resident to register a boat in Greece or any other EU country. Another option would be to place the boat in the ownership of a company and get US state registration. There are many boats sailing in Türkiye and elsewhere in Europe with US flags and Delaware registration. This is probably not strictly legal as only USCG registration is valid internationally but the authorities just turn a blind eye.

I just bought a boat in Croatia, from a Hungarian owner, actually, the Hungarian's company, which was registered in Domenica. We registered the boat with the US coast guard and have it insured with an Italian insurance company, via a croatian agent. The VAT was not paid which means we have to take the boat or of the country every 18 months. And this is strictly legal.

Gordon
 
I wasn't aware you could get USCG registration for a boat outside the US but that's definitely the way to go. Being able to buy a VAT not paid boat is a great saving but there are catches you need to be on the look out for. For example the boat can stay for 18 continuous months but you're restricted to 90 days in every 180 in the Shengen area. By the way you need to take it out of the EU and not just Croatia every 18 months.
 
Laws vary by country, but in our case we only need take the boat to montenegro for a day to start the clock over. This is a one day cruise from Dubrovnik.
 
I don't want to over complicate the thread but Temporary Admission is part of EU law in relation to the import of goods into the Customs Union and it does not vary from country to country - the manner in which it is administered may vary but the law does not. Montenegro is very convenient, for now, but their application to join to EU is well advanced and there talk of it happening in 25 or 26.
 
I am Dutch, bought my boat in Greece, from a German owner through a Dutch broker. After I bought the boat I registered the boat in Poland, which is the easiest and cheapest way to register your boat. Poland is in the EU and in Schengen, so you won't have any problems there.
You do need insurance all over Europe, in fact marinas want to see a copy of the insurance whenever you check in. You may also have checks by the police while on the water and also they want to see an insurance. I know in the US the Coast Guard does most of the checks, but in Croatia and Greece you will mostly get visited by the police.

When it comes to licenses for the crew it is a bit of a complicated matter. Some countries demand specific local licenses if you don't have an ICC or RYA license. Croatia is one of those countries if you show up without a license. The local license is not difficult to get, used to be that you had to pass by the harbor master on Saturday morning, do a small exam and you would get your license, which is then only valid for Croatia. There is word that Croatia will now also go for a practical exam, but nothing final yet.

Other countries are more strict. E.g. the Netherlands don't require a license if the boat is less than 15 mtr or cannot go faster than 20 km/hr. But, you don't need to do a practical exam, it is just a theoretical exam, that is it. If your boat is longer than 15 mtr and / or can go faster than 20 km/hr you need a license. However, you will need to study for that exam, it is not an easy exam to pass. Most people take their courses in winter time and then do the exam in the spring. If they catch you on a boat that requires a license and you don't have one, that will be a fine.
As a foreigner you also need a license and for the larger boat that will be an ICC. I have both my Dutch license (which is equivalent to ICC) as the RYA Day Skipper license, plus radio operator license, so I can basically go wherever I want to go.

If you have an EPIRB on board you need a MARCOM B license as an operator. If you have a VHF on board you need both a license to have it on board plus a license to operate it. Both licenses will be checked by the police when they stop you.

As for insurance I have Pantaenius, which is an insurance that is widely used in Europe for boats. Of course there are others, you need to check them out. I don't know if you can have Pantaenius with a US registered boat.

Now the difficult part here is the Non EU citizenship. We do have Schengen and there are rules how long non EU citizens can stay in the Schengen area. Once you are in Schengen nobody will check whether you overstayed your allotted days. However, when you leave Schengen............that is the moment they will find out and that is the moment they can hand you a fine and tell you that you can't enter Schengen anymore for the next 5 or 10 years.
Some countries are more strict in that then others. Croatia is known to have no sense of humor, they have picked up foreigners from their houses, escorted them to the border and thrown them out. That has happened so don't expect to get away with simply overstaying. You may, but you may also not get away with it.
Croatia is also known for handing out fines if they see you going out of their territorial waters while you are tacking with a sailing yacht and then tacking back into the territorial waters. They will happily hand you fines for illegal exit and illegal entry of the country.

Greece even goes further. Lots of people come to Greece with their EU car, leave the car there during the summer and pick up the car when they go back home at the end of the summer. At that time there are a possible options. First one is that you get away without a problem, but it is also possible your car has been impounded by customs for being longer than 6 months in the country without importing it. Another option is that they catch you at the border and then you can get a fine of several thousand euros. So be careful with it.
 
I had Pantaenius for many years while traveling internationally. I’m a US citizen. Then after repeated hurricanes and increased claims P set up Pantaenius US which was so expensive we dropped them and went with a US based company. Also dropped P due to being told if you had a claim with P as a US citizen you had no “standing” in British court so would have to hire a lawyer to act as a intermediary. Further told this caused prolonged delays in settlements. My understanding is P US no longer exists and as a US citizen P isn’t a viable choice. We used Concepts Special Risk as an alternative. Prices were reasonable for that market. Never had a claim so can’t speak to that.
If I was going to cruise Europe as a US citizen on my own boat I would get owner operator insurance from a US vendor. I would get both a ICC and a RYA coastal yachtmaster. Would further get station and operator radio licenses. This would cover all European countries and all countries abutting the Mediterranean basin to my understanding. I’m assuming a vessel 20m or less not requiring commercial licenses.
As Mambo points out Schengen is a major PIA. As part of your plan need to leave the Schengen area periodically. So need to make sure you have appropriate licenses for the non Schengen country(ies) you use.
 
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It has been my experience that most countries do not require a license.

Many insurance companies and mortgage carriers do require one.

pete
 

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