danderer
Guru
Mostly but not exclusively -- there are those whose focus is representing buyers. See https://www.zimmermanmarine.com/yacht-purchase-support for example.
We went this route and were very pleased with the process and outcome.
Interesting Broker Discussion
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Mostly but not exclusively -- there are those whose focus is representing buyers. See https://www.zimmermanmarine.com/yacht-purchase-support for example.
We went this route and were very pleased with the process and outcome.
menzies
Guru
No the buyers brokers gets paid from the seller's commission. The buyer pays nothing (unless they agree on a nominal amount). I'm not talking about a Zimmerman type contract. The selling broker and the buyers broker split the commission.
Regarding your second point. It can be both but not usually. A buyer would have probably looked at the brokers own inventory and found nothing. Then engaging the broker to represent them they look for suitable boats together.
Also the broker has access to SoldBoats and can gather comps before making any offer. They then deal with the other broker through the negotiations, surveys, post survey offer etc. always with your agreement on what position to take.
danderer
Guru
Just to clarify: Zimmerman gets paid from the seller's commission. I paid them nothing directly.
mvweebles
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Basically, sounds like a buyer finds a broker he likes and can trust. And the broker accepts that not everyone who walks through the door has a 10% deposit with them for use that day.
I just think the term "Buyers Broker" is misleading. It's just a good broker. I've bumped into many. Jeff Merrill comes with good creeds. Someone on this forum recently gave Judy Waldman at JW Yachts high marks. They both list boats and sell other people's listing. Best I can tell based on recommendations, they are good brokers who are easy to work with and gain the trust of their customers, buyer and seller.
Like I say, I am very much supportive of brokers. Just cringe a little at the term buyers broker. But I'll get over it. Whatever makes people comfortable in a transaction is a good thing.
But.....returning to the OP that describes a conversation with a Broker who states there would be no sea-trial, but would close via escrow for a later sea-trial, the description sounds like the Broker was not very helpful, was mostly a bully in a seller's market. That doesn't make him a 'seller's broker,' it just makes him a person I wouldn't want to do business with.
Peter
I just think the term "Buyers Broker" is misleading. It's just a good broker. I've bumped into many. Jeff Merrill comes with good creeds. Someone on this forum recently gave Judy Waldman at JW Yachts high marks. They both list boats and sell other people's listing. Best I can tell based on recommendations, they are good brokers who are easy to work with and gain the trust of their customers, buyer and seller.
Like I say, I am very much supportive of brokers. Just cringe a little at the term buyers broker. But I'll get over it. Whatever makes people comfortable in a transaction is a good thing.
But.....returning to the OP that describes a conversation with a Broker who states there would be no sea-trial, but would close via escrow for a later sea-trial, the description sounds like the Broker was not very helpful, was mostly a bully in a seller's market. That doesn't make him a 'seller's broker,' it just makes him a person I wouldn't want to do business with.
Peter
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menzies
Guru
I was more referring to the service he offers on boat finding and surveying - the A to Z of the process.
https://www.zimmermanmarine.com/yacht-purchase-support
He mentions a fee - I assumed this was in addition to what he would get from the 10%, but it may not be based on your experience?
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mvweebles
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From a different page on their Site:
Zimmerman Marine now offers Yacht Purchase Support for used boat buyers. This innovative service provides buyer's representation before, during, and after the sale. Our program includes a One Year Post Purchase Warranty and one of of 24/7 Technical Support. Our Yacht Purchase Support program does not add any cost to the buyer or seller, and in fact will reduce the costs for the buyer. For more information please see Yacht Purchase Support.
They had listed both a brokerage and the buyer's support program described above. They no longer have any boats listed for sale, so perhaps they've gone all-in on the buyer's advocacy and collect as part of the seller's commission. As a hunch, Zimmerman has become active with PMM and TrawlerFest. Perhaps their business model leverages the pervasive contact with buyers on the hunt.
Interestingly, they provide a 1-year warranty against anything that they missed on the survey. Further, they will give a credit of 20% of the fee they receive at their boatyard. So there is definitely some advantage here.
Peter
Codger2
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Sounds to me like you already have an "adviser" that carries a lot of weight in the decision making department! Diesels are diesels and there aren't many that I would shy away from.
Listen to your chief advisor (wife) as to what kind of boat she really likes, then research the various models that coincide with her thinking. (If she's happy, you can't go wrong!) Then subscribe to Boat Diesel.Com and talk with the diesel pros. For $50 dollars/year you get one hell of a lot of info!
danderer
Guru
Yup, I can see how that wording is confusing. The "fee" is the 5% of the deal they collect -- half of the commission paid by the seller.
So I paid nothing and got part of the 5% they collected back as credit for labor done at their yards.
Hippocampus
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Clarified our thinking. the the Summer Kyle design is off.
List now is
N40
KK 39 or north sea
AT 41 or Nordic
Elling - an E3 ultimate or E4
Decent sized Monk or Willard
DD 41 or Coot 38
The admiral has spoken. She knows coastal can be every bit as nasty as ocean. She likes fast but not to any significant degree. Live ability and quality of construction much more important to her. She wants small. She’s definite about that. So Fleming, Selene (other than the 43 which she doesn’t like ?why I don’t know) and such are off the list.
List now is
N40
KK 39 or north sea
AT 41 or Nordic
Elling - an E3 ultimate or E4
Decent sized Monk or Willard
DD 41 or Coot 38
The admiral has spoken. She knows coastal can be every bit as nasty as ocean. She likes fast but not to any significant degree. Live ability and quality of construction much more important to her. She wants small. She’s definite about that. So Fleming, Selene (other than the 43 which she doesn’t like ?why I don’t know) and such are off the list.
Codger2
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Selenes are beautiful boats but are slow! Flemings are also very beautiful and have a good turn of speed when wanted. Having toured both models, my vote would go to Fleming and has always gone to Fleming! You can't beat a Fleming for resale either!
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rslifkin
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If long offshore passages aren't a requirement any more, I'd take a look at a few of the less "sturdy" coastal cruisers before writing them off in general. They may not be as capable in rough conditions as a passagemaker, but most will give better interior volume vs boat size, have shallower draft, have more speed, etc. And a good one will still survive far rougher conditions than you care to be out in.
menzies
Guru
Nick14
Guru
There is a cost to everything, especially relating to boats. Nothing is "free", including the services of a 'buyer's broker'.
My understanding is the same as others have said, that a buyer's broker would split the commission with the seller's/listing broker, thus generally 5% each. The pitch is that it 'doesn't cost the buyer anything', which may or may not be true.
There have been a few boats I've made offers on over the years where we couldn't agree on a price (big surprise), but weren't that far apart. In more than one case, the seller's broker offered to reduce their commission to 5% to try and make the deal happen. Their thinking was that since I was not working with a buyer's broker there was no one they had to split the commission with, and they were willing to take 5% rather than nothing to get the deal done, a very enlightened and respectable attitude. If I had been working with a buyer's broker it's unlikely they would have made that kind of offer.
However, there have also been other times when I've suggested to a seller's broker that they reduce their commission to try and make the deal happen and they weren't interested at all, and were looking forward to the 'windfall' of getting the entire 10% commission for themselves. I also imagine there might not be too many cases of this happening in the current white-hot seller's market where many buyers can't throw money at the seller fast enough to get the boat.
I'm open to the concept of a buyer's broker, in the interests of saving me time (which is the most precious and limited resource, especially at this point in my life). Pretty much every broker I've ever talked with has pushed hard to 'represent' me as a 'buyer's broker' with the same pitch 'it won't cost you anything'. I can understand the appeal from their perspective, to try and lock in a 5% commission on a deal. I've tried working with a few, but my experiences have been that all they seem to do is send me lists of yachtworld listings of boats I'm already aware of, to try and claim a commission if I end up buying any of them. I know how to use a computer and am very aware of what's listed on yachtworld and boattrader, and it's of no value to me to re-send to me listings I've already seen. When I've asked for help beyond just sending yachtworld listing, so far the responses have generally been the sound of chirping crickets. I'd love to hear of positive experiences and true value-added buyer's brokers, but I haven't experienced them myself yet.
Ultimately, the buyer pays, for everything. The money in a deal has to come from somewhere, and it comes from the buyer. There are all sorts of ways to cosmetically slice and dice it to make things look different (splitting commissions, price reductions, 'credits', etc.), but at the end of the day, the money is coming from the buyer's wallet to be divided up among those involved.
My understanding is the same as others have said, that a buyer's broker would split the commission with the seller's/listing broker, thus generally 5% each. The pitch is that it 'doesn't cost the buyer anything', which may or may not be true.
There have been a few boats I've made offers on over the years where we couldn't agree on a price (big surprise), but weren't that far apart. In more than one case, the seller's broker offered to reduce their commission to 5% to try and make the deal happen. Their thinking was that since I was not working with a buyer's broker there was no one they had to split the commission with, and they were willing to take 5% rather than nothing to get the deal done, a very enlightened and respectable attitude. If I had been working with a buyer's broker it's unlikely they would have made that kind of offer.
However, there have also been other times when I've suggested to a seller's broker that they reduce their commission to try and make the deal happen and they weren't interested at all, and were looking forward to the 'windfall' of getting the entire 10% commission for themselves. I also imagine there might not be too many cases of this happening in the current white-hot seller's market where many buyers can't throw money at the seller fast enough to get the boat.
I'm open to the concept of a buyer's broker, in the interests of saving me time (which is the most precious and limited resource, especially at this point in my life). Pretty much every broker I've ever talked with has pushed hard to 'represent' me as a 'buyer's broker' with the same pitch 'it won't cost you anything'. I can understand the appeal from their perspective, to try and lock in a 5% commission on a deal. I've tried working with a few, but my experiences have been that all they seem to do is send me lists of yachtworld listings of boats I'm already aware of, to try and claim a commission if I end up buying any of them. I know how to use a computer and am very aware of what's listed on yachtworld and boattrader, and it's of no value to me to re-send to me listings I've already seen. When I've asked for help beyond just sending yachtworld listing, so far the responses have generally been the sound of chirping crickets. I'd love to hear of positive experiences and true value-added buyer's brokers, but I haven't experienced them myself yet.
Ultimately, the buyer pays, for everything. The money in a deal has to come from somewhere, and it comes from the buyer. There are all sorts of ways to cosmetically slice and dice it to make things look different (splitting commissions, price reductions, 'credits', etc.), but at the end of the day, the money is coming from the buyer's wallet to be divided up among those involved.
Blissboat
Guru
Nick14 wrote, "Ultimately, the buyer pays, for everything. The money in a deal has to come from somewhere, and it comes from the buyer. There are all sorts of ways to cosmetically slice and dice it to make things look different (splitting commissions, price reductions, 'credits', etc.), but at the end of the day, the money is coming from the buyer's wallet to be divided up among those involved."
Exactly. No buyer, no money.
Exactly. No buyer, no money.
I live in the north east. I have negotiated/purchased all of my boats during Fall/Winter. Never rush to buy a boat. That is what someone told me and I have practiced ever since. November is not far away. I spent over a year looking for my current boat. What is a month?
I would consider doing some negotiating and putting a small deposit down that is in trusted escrow (preferably your own attorney) with all the contingencies. I'd do my own inspection before if possible to see how thing look. Maybe even survey while its out of the water. Then be first in-line to sea trial it. Its pretty normal in the north east for buyers to pay for launch, haul, and re-winterization when buying a boat in winter so it can be sea trialed. Usually the sellers ask the yard to keep the boat accessible and not buried.
I would consider doing some negotiating and putting a small deposit down that is in trusted escrow (preferably your own attorney) with all the contingencies. I'd do my own inspection before if possible to see how thing look. Maybe even survey while its out of the water. Then be first in-line to sea trial it. Its pretty normal in the north east for buyers to pay for launch, haul, and re-winterization when buying a boat in winter so it can be sea trialed. Usually the sellers ask the yard to keep the boat accessible and not buried.
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