engine block heater (FL135)

[paulga]

for preparing the engine room for liveaboards the winter (temp generally is lowest for 2 weeks in Feb), is it sufficient to leave the water heater on? or should it be completed with a bilge heater e.g. twin hornet 700w or a oil filled heater?

I saw people frequently mention an engine block heater, but couldn't find an exact model in my search. could you recommend such a block heater?

 

[boomerang]

Why don't you pickle the engine with antifreeze and not worry about it? It's doubtful you'll be doing much boating in NYC in the middle of the winter. I'm hoping you've got a good plan to stay warm if you're a liveaboard. Fiberglass is an excellent conductor of temperature.

 

[gonesailing13]

Lived aboard in the NYC area for three years. Had the boat shrink wrapped. Warmed up like a greenhouse during the day and just a small oil heater when the reverse cycle didn’t work anymore.Never had any problems.

 

[paulga]

it was postphoned by all other things in consideration. still planning to do some boating/training before January. I also thought, with all the heaters running continuously, is it still necessary to winterize the engine.

 

[paulga]

i just learned shrink wrap costs $1k when the boat is on land, $2k+ when in water. it's not a good deal to me. I don't plan to run AC continuously or even at all.
the plan is to use 5 electric heaters:

1 infrared in the forward cabin,
1 oil filled in the aft
1 oil filled in the ER
1 radiant heater under sundeck sink
1 engine block heater

the heaters at ER and sundeck will be set at minimum setting.
A diesel heater is more efficient and would free out the space required by these heaters, but i have not figured out the installation. so the above is most likely what will look like.

 

[C lectric]

You get freezing weather of more than a day or two at a time???
Winterize your engine and other gear.
In cold temps all it would take is a power failure for a couple of days to freeze your engine and damage it and or the coolers.
The block may survive but what about the coolers, heat exchangers

Don't fool around.

JMO

 

[Nomad Willy]

Get a thermostatically controlled electric heater (or heaters) of the best quality you can find.
Use golden rods for smaller spaces like at the ends of your boat. Run them all the time when freezing temperatures are expected.

Heat thusly the whole boat to about 40 degrees f.
Leave the boat in the water.
If you have the need .. haul out but pickle everything.

 

[OldDan1943]

Go to a truck stop and buy an in-line circulating water heater.

 

[paulga]

I didn't quite get the point. bilge already has a water heater, with all the plumbing and valves connected in a working way I have yet to understand even a bit. what is the advantage of an in line water heater?

 

[Benthic2]

https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Pad...66&sprefix=oil+pan+heater,aps,106&sr=8-3&th=1

 

[Shrew]

I didn't quite get the point. bilge already has a water heater, with all the plumbing and valves connected in a working way I have yet to understand even a bit. what is the advantage of an in line water heater?

What are you proposing? Turning the onboard water heater into a block warmer?

Are you planning on using the boat in the middle of winter? Otherwise, I would:

1) Close the engine seacock.

2) OPen the seastrainer.

3) Get a bunch of propylene glycol open (I use 6 gallons).

4) Start the engine and pour gallons of propylene glycol into the seastrainer until the engine is discharging propylene glycol out the exhaust ports.

5) Stop engine.

Otherwise an inline heater would make more sense:

https://www.raneystruckparts.com/we...0qRuF6_aLPcnt5GhH-50VjhbN5I4kAqhoCiEEQAvD_BwE

We repeat the winterization process on the AC/Heat system and generator.

I'm not clear how you're going to keep the water tanks and water lines from freezing. We empty our tanks, pour in more propylene glycol and run all the taps until the AF (pink) comes out.

 

[TJM]

I have been in the water in CT for 10 yrs and have added to my system every year as I learn. You must plan on the power going out. Are you being metered for electricity? What dock power do you have? 30 amps or 50 amps? Most oil filled radiators are 1500 watts and will draw 12 amps on high. Your entire 30 amp system can only feed about 3600 watts. Anywhere close to this power draw and your system will show you its weak points.
Change out your yellow shore power cable plugs at the boat to the orange "smart plugs". These are much safer and will not burn up. A burnt plug will shut down and then you have NO power. Do you have a genny?

I have a diesel fireplace, propane fireplace, 3 oil filled radiators, many CO and propane sensors / alarms and a lot of insulation. As the boat stays warmish inside you will accumulate much condensation on the inside walls and windows. Water will drip.
I keep my engine room about 45° F and vented, to reduce condensation - rust etc......
I have a few remote temperature sensors around the boat in ER that connect to my Iphone. I can see and track the temperature and humidity at any point in time remotely.

 

[paulga]

Thanks for the winterization process.
is the inline heater in your link a so called engine block heater?

since I will be onboard daily, I'll not winterize the plumbing system. I'll avoid extended travel during the winter. If I do, I'll winterize the engine, AC and generator, but not the plumbing.
I'll place a heater in the bilge. is that enough to keep the water tanks and lines from freezing?

 

[Bmarler]

Thanks for the winterization process.
is the inline heater in your link a so called engine block heater?

since I will be onboard daily, I'll not winterize the plumbing system. I'll avoid extended travel during the winter. If I do, I'll winterize the engine, AC and generator, but not the plumbing.
I'll place a heater in the bilge. is that enough to keep the water tanks and lines from freezing?

Look again at the silicone pad heaters posted earlier. They go on the oil pan of the engine(s). That turns the whole engine into an engine room heater. It takes a while for them to bring the engine up to temperature, but the engine will hold its heat for quite some time (handy in a short power outage) and radiate heat to the engine spaces.
They come in many different sizes and wattages so you can pick the one that works best for you.
The added bonus is the engine will start easier and smoke less on startup.

 

[paulga]

i saw this post mentioned
...The hassle is the heat is concentrated at a single spot , which can get hot enough to coke the oil.Some of the coked oil chunks will be in the circulating oil on engine start...
so I was looking for block heater.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Block heaters can be found that goin a freeze plug hole. Many trucks use them, a brand I remember is JJEB.

 

[Ken E.]

"....so I was looking for block heater."

A variation on the engine oil pan 'pad' heater mentioned above is an immersion block heater which is a heating element in the engine's block coolant. I have these, called Hot Starts, formerly known as Kim Hot Starts. Mine are 750 watts and I run them on timers, 2 hours on, 2 off when the weather is below freezing. The engines radiate heat and the engine room and everything in it stays around 40 degrees. I've used this method for over 20 years with both Cummins and Detroit engines and it's been a good solution for me. My boat stays in the water over the winter.

 

[Gdavid]

I suspect running your water heater will keep the engine block above freezing because I have found that the domestic water in my water heater reaches 150-160 F when my 750W Hotstart block heater is on and the water heater is off. My water heater is in my lazarette, approximately a 9' run of 5/8" heater hose from the engine and there is no circulation pump.

That said, I would just run some antifreeze through the raw water system of your engine and generator if you have one. The cost a hassle of winterizing the engine is miniscule compared to the cost of a ruined engine. In my area, sailboats with inboards, that participate in the frostbite racing series winterize their engine after ever outing and you get really efficient at it, it becomes second nature.

If you plan to keep the potable water system commissioned and ready for use, I also recommend that you isolate and drain any potable water lines on the boat to remote areas of the boat that a heated bilge won't protect from freezing. You would need to add isolation valves to do this if you don't already have them.

 

[paulga]

is this device the hot start?



I didn't see a timer in the description. is this scheduled using an amazon wifi plug?

 

[Ken E.]

is this device the hot start?

View attachment 143431

I didn't see a timer in the description. is this scheduled using an amazon wifi plug?

That's not the Hot Start I'm using, which is a heating element that screws into a port with pipe threads in the engine block. On B Cummins, a suitable port is on the stbd side of the engine. The heating element looks similar to one you'd use for a hot water heater.

 

[Gdavid]

is this device the hot start?

View attachment 143431

I didn't see a timer in the description. is this scheduled using an amazon wifi plug?

I have the in-block style that Ken E. described. The type you posted works as well, I went the in-block style to reduce engine room clutter. I find the water circulates plenty without any pump, even to my domestic water heater which is pretty far from my engine.

I don't have a wifi plug to control it yet but plan to add one, another option is a line voltage thermostat. The purpose of mine is to reduce smoking on startup in the early spring and fall and being able to turn in on remotely would be really. It should about 6-7 amps so a higher quality wifi switch should handle it just fine. I would not rely on my marina's wifi to keep my block from freezing but for the convenience of a less smokey start, it would do just fine.

 

[OldDan1943]

The circulating water heater I used on my Bronco, in northern Alberta… cut the coolant hose, install the thermostatically controlled heater unit, hose clamp securely, plug it it and you should hear a click when it is operating. I saw temps of minus -46F.

 

[dannc]

My diesel truck has a built in block heater that I used to use.

If the block heater used a 1.5 KW per hour, and it needed three hours, to warm the block, that was 4.5 KWhs a day, lets just say 20 days a month. Power back then was 10 cents a KWh, so .45 cents a day or $9 a month.

I took that $9 a month and used it to buy a decent 0w40 or 5w40 oil so I would not have to use the engine block heater. The cost to do this today, would be $12-13 a month. And remember, that is only heating the engine block for three hours out of 24.

I used a timer to turn on the block heater three hours before I would have to drive the truck. Twas really nice because the truck engine, and thus me, would be warm really quickly after startup.

If you are going to use the engine block heater, and other heaters to keep the boat warm, do the math on the cost of power, and as others have said, make sure the shore power can support the heaters.

Later,
Dan

 

[Lepke]

Plan on losing power sometime, water, too.

The best way to stay warm in a boat in cold climate is with a diesel heater or stove. One that runs w/o power or on 12v. With electric heat you need to change the inside air. Otherwise everything is wet. All the steam from cooking and showers and moisture from your breath stays inside unless the air is changed. That why a diesel heater is better. It constantly draws inside air for combustion so your excess moisture goes out the exhaust.
Electric heaters just heat the wet air. Moisture will form on the ports and windows, running down and staining paneling. Bedding and clothes will feel wet.

 

[paulga]

I suspect running your water heater will keep the engine block above freezing because I have found that the domestic water in my water heater reaches 150-160 F when my 750W Hotstart block heater is on and the water heater is off. My water heater is in my lazarette, approximately a 9' run of 5/8" heater hose from the engine and there is no circulation pump.

That said, I would just run some antifreeze through the raw water system of your engine and generator if you have one. The cost a hassle of winterizing the engine is miniscule compared to the cost of a ruined engine. In my area, sailboats with inboards, that participate in the frostbite racing series winterize their engine after ever outing and you get really efficient at it, it becomes second nature.

If you plan to keep the potable water system commissioned and ready for use, I also recommend that you isolate and drain any potable water lines on the boat to remote areas of the boat that a heated bilge won't protect from freezing. You would need to add isolation valves to do this if you don't already have them.

Remote areas = behind the bulkheads? There are water tanks, head tank, sump pumps, etc. I don't know if there are isolation valves. Bilge heater cannot cover those areas?

I saw some water lines around the hot water heater in the bilge. There are lines behind the aft bulkhead connecting to the water tanks under the aft cabin.

 

[paulga]

the installation guideline is to replace any core plug on the port side of engine.

here is the port side of FL 2725 (sp135), where is the core plug, and how to remove it?

 

[Action]

the installation guideline is to replace any core plug on the port side of engine.

here is the port side of FL 2725 (sp135), where is the core plug, and how to remove it?

It appears the core plug is in the center.
Circled.
To the left or that it looks like there is a tap for oil pressure

To remove -
drain coolant.
Either punch it out with a chisel. Not preferred.
Or drill ever larger holes in it while using a vacuum to take up metal.
Then use a small pry bar to pull it out.
The goal is to remove not push it into the cooling system jacket.
Install the heater.
Refill cooling system
The heater HAS to be immersed in coolant or it will be damaged.

 

[paulga]

I have a black decker cordless drill and some bits. Is that sufficient? The hole should be just large for a small pry bar to insert?

Is it important to use a shop vac to suck the metal while drilling?

It appears the core plug is in the center.
Circled.
To the left or that it looks like there is a tap for oil pressure

To remove -
drain coolant.
Either punch it out with a chisel. Not preferred.
Or drill ever larger holes in it while using a vacuum to take up metal.
Then use a small pry bar to pull it out.
The goal is to remove not push it into the cooling system jacket.
Install the heater.
Refill cooling system
The heater HAS to be immersed in coolant or it will be damaged.

 

[Action]

I would not want bits of metal anywhere. In the engine or in the bilge.
Or if you have a different method of containment (grease) it does not matter.

The plug is usually soft metal. The hole size is not critical as long as some tool will fit in there and pop it out.

 

[paulga]

is the grease method to apply generous amount of silicone grease to the drill bit and to the plug, to avoid metal shavings?

I would not want bits of metal anywhere. In the engine or in the bilge.
Or if you have a different method of containment (grease) it does not matter.

The plug is usually soft metal. The hole size is not critical as long as some tool will fit in there and pop it out.