Ditch bag recommendations?

[gilbertpark]

I support no flares. This year they killed a sailor, they have seriously injured a friend of mine and they have sunk a RNLI lifeboat. They have been out of date since the Titanic!

People also argue that your radio doesn't work once you leave the coast - nonsense. A VHF radio with DSC will send a message 25 miles to a big ship. This happens to be the same distance that a parachute flare send its light. But flares only have a short burn, don't work in rain or fog and usually aren't seen by big boats.

LED distress signals work for up to 10 hours (plus you can carry spare batteries) and you can strap them to the outside of the life raft so every one can stay inside - protected from the weather.

No pyrotechnic flares please

 

[CarlF]

I support no flares. This year they killed a sailor, they have seriously injured a friend of mine and they have sunk a RNLI lifeboat. They have been out of date since the Titanic!

People also argue that your radio doesn't work once you leave the coast - nonsense. A VHF radio with DSC will send a message 25 miles to a big ship. This happens to be the same distance that a parachute flare send its light. But flares only have a short burn, don't work in rain or fog and usually aren't seen by big boats.

LED distress signals work for up to 10 hours (plus you can carry spare batteries) and you can strap them to the outside of the life raft so every one can stay inside - protected from the weather.

No pyrotechnic flares please

There’s a long history of flares not being understood as distress. The officers of the California discussed the rockets from the near by Titanic but decided it wasn’t important enough to wake the captain.

 

[thataway]

I have had basically the same ditch bag since 1979, (We carried two EPIRBs in the 1979 Transpacific) The bag is a SeaLand EE5, it goes with me on the dinghy on up to 62 foot motor sailor I took Calif to Europe and back. The life raft had the extra water, concentrated calories, a Kabar Marine corp Knife from WWII in a heavy leather sheath. a second EPRiB (first was at the cabin door inside,) along with the laminated "orders" I posted for any possible emergency. When people came aboard as crew or guests they were asked to familiarize them with these "orders". Along side this was a pouch with a Leatherman tool, a Mini Mag AA batter flashlight and a Swiss army knife with magnifier, saw and sharp blades etc. That I often wore when on watch.

The "Ditch bag is about i2" high and about 15" in circumference weight is about 7 lbs, so easy to carry. The bag is clear plastic with a scrim. it is over 40 years old, no cuts etc, but the roll up seal has been reworked to keep it air tight.

I have small rocket flares, A Leather man or Gerber multi tool, a multiple blade screwdriver, a pair of small vise grips a medium sized Crescent wrench. Inflatable repair kit Now we have an PLB and Standard Horison 890 HX.
There is a alkiline battery tray for the 890 HX and a dozen batteries for it (AAA) Alkaline batteries (rotated regularly). I have a strobe and flashlight with also work on AA batteries. I have a vermilion colored Orange rescue signal. I have at least 3 space blankets and light vinyl ponchos. There is a second Swiss Army knife with magnifier and saw, as well other common blades. I have waterproof matches--container full. A new BIC lighter. I have a hockey puck hand bearing compass (quality item--not the cheapest). A small first aide kit, several 30" on a side dish towels--makes a dressing, sling, wrap etc. Even could be a head cover. Fishing kit--hand line made up lures with fluorocarbon leader, The "fishing kit" also has some SS flexible leader material, which could be used for a snare. As well as a few extra hooks. 100 feet of premium paracord. Some form of water maker/and or life straw.
I also had a loud whistle, and a small canister air horn.

Controversial is my North American Arms .22 Magnum 5 shot Single action revolver 1 1/8" barrel, with 50 solid bullets, and 12 rat/snake shot. (Signal, on the land or sea survival birds, fish, small mammals.). I don't carry the mini revolver in Canada, Mexico and other countries which ban firearms. (A lot of countries)

I had the port captain in Livingston Guatemala ask me to carry openly when out of towns along the Rio Dulce and tributaries to Lake Izabal. (1996 era) His comment was "I know that many of you yachtsman are better armed than our army or marines."



For each member of the crew if going off shore, we have a PLB, a VHF radio, and a strobe light for their life vest--becomes obligatory in rough weather. The life vest will also have a combined double tether, with spinnaker pelican hook at the attachment to the harness.

If I were voyaging now, I probably would fit the personal AIS beacon to the each life jacket. (These are all inflatable life jacket using a pouch for "extra items".

 

[OldDan1943]

LOL. You guys discouraging. I have a ditch bag in a store room. It’s a bit large for 34ft to store onboard but, onboard prior to travel. Not much of a ditch bag, along the food on the raft, I will be fine

 

[Jeff F]

I carry my small booster pack next to the ditch bag. With a couple of usb ports it'll run my portable devices for a long time.

 

[Hippocampus]

I carry my small booster pack next to the ditch bag. With a couple of usb ports it'll run my portable devices for a long time.

As long as it doesn’t get wet. Like simple batteries stored in several different watertight containers. Have rechargeable batteries in just about everything but still like old school fresh, in date batteries. Have a small folding solar unit to recharge the rechargeables. But the inside of a raft can get quite wet. The sun may not shine. And I want redundancy.

Have added the non incendiary flares to the kit. But don’t think any replaces the parachutes or smoke yet.

 

[wkearney99]

As we age, an extra pair of reading glasses. Does no good to have a VHF with GPS in it if you can't rattle off those numbers because you CAN'T SEE THEM.

 

[PPandE]

This thread inspired me to review our ditch bag….

We also included a couple of toothbrushes, toothpaste and a bar of soap.

Another forgotten item which I found and charged was an aviation band handheld vhf. All of the local traffic in the Bahamas uses 122.8, all commercial aircraft are supposed to monitor 121.5 and the en route and local frequencies are readily available for North America. If you can see, or hear, and airplane, you should be able to talk to it. Also, since EPIRB’s use 121.5 for their homing frequency the handheld serves to verify it's working and as a backup for a homing signal.

 

[Fish53]

Ultimately you're talking about survival, whether it's a short wait a mile from shore or something more serious far offshore. Start from the top and work down. At the top is a life raft, next survival suits and an EPIRB, without those you'll need rescue pretty quickly before the stuff in ditch bag can do much good. I'll leave others to recommend the contents of that.

 

[Shrew]

I think of a ditch bag in two ways...

1) what will I need when I'm floating out there?

2) What will I need once I'm brought back to some random port.

FOR THE WATER:

-> Flares
-> VHF radio
-> signaling mirror
-> Dinghy/raft patch kit
-> some basic food (long-term, shelf stable food bars)
-> Water or a small portable water desalinate/purifier
-> emergency blanket
-> some means to keep warm and (hopefully) dry-ish.
-> basic first aid kit (must include sea-sickness meds)
-> paracord


FOR THE RESCUE

-> credit cards
-> ID
-> Cash
-> Contact Phone Numbers
-> Prescriptions
-> eye glasses

I coastal cruise and don't expect to be in the water that long.

 

[OldDan1943]

Don’t forget the deck chairs

 

[Fish53]

Thinking you won’t be in the water for long enough to have serious problems or that your cell phone or credit cards are important is completely unrealistic. People die from hypothermia and drowning within easy sight of land, if you’re not in top shape or somewhere beyond young water survival is a serious business. I’m not saying you shouldn’t attempt to take as much as possible to facilitate survival but there exists some basics that many shrug off as too expensive, inconvenient or unnecessary.

 

[ScottC]

This is an excellent, excellent thread. So much to be learned from it!
Since the thread often touches on the related subject of life rafts, I will share one experience that increased my level of confidence about this piece equipment. That is simply to "try it out" sometime just before you send it off for its scheduled service. Yes, you will be charged a bit more for the service after this, but it's worth it. It gives great peace-of-mind experiencing first-hand how it works, how to flip it, how to board it, etc. Much better to experience all this the first time in a calm, no-stress environment.

 

[Shrew]

Thinking you won’t be in the water for long enough to have serious problems or that your cell phone or credit cards are important is completely unrealistic. People die from hypothermia and drowning within easy sight of land, if you’re not in top shape or somewhere beyond young water survival is a serious business. I’m not saying you shouldn’t attempt to take as much as possible to facilitate survival but there exists some basics that many shrug off as too expensive, inconvenient or unnecessary.

Dude, Coastal Cruising New England is not exactly the Bearing Sea. Let's pump the brakes on the drama and consider what reasonable coastal cruising in the summer months of the US is really like.

Yes, when you get dragged up to some town 250 miles from your home or vehicle, you're going to want to check into a hotel, have a meal and get back home.

Most incidents are not "Castaway". I can't recall the last time I was out of sight of another boat.

 

[wkearney99]

Most incidents are not "Castaway". I can't recall the last time I was out of sight of another boat.

Agreed. Though I think it's worth knowing about the risks in more isolated situations. That informs decisions on what else should be considered. Because I'd venture many wouldn't really include much beyond the most basic set of items unless they'd read/heard about what would help when things REALLY go wrong.

As a side note, if you have never tested different knives I was surprised how much more readily a Gill serrated knife cut through some 5/8" double-braided than did a Leatherman. Both 'got the job done' but the Gill separated the line faster. Not as neatly as the sharper blade on the Leatherman, so I wouldn't favor it for routine uses or where you want a clean cut. My test was certainly not precise or authoritative but it surprised me how much difference there was between the two.

This also touches on the issue of maintenance. Whatever you put in the kit, make sure it remains in usable condition. Sure, a multi-tool with a whole slew of features is nice... but not when your cold, wet fingers can't get it open, or worse because it's rusted shut.

 

[OldDan1943]

wkearney, no pointed knives onboard the inflatable life raft. It saves you from saying “oops, where’s the patching kit?”

 

[Fish53]

Dude, Coastal Cruising New England is not exactly the Bearing Sea. Let's pump the brakes on the drama and consider what reasonable coastal cruising in the summer months of the US is really like.

Yes, when you get dragged up to some town 250 miles from your home or vehicle, you're going to want to check into a hotel, have a meal and get back home.

Most incidents are not "Castaway". I can't recall the last time I was out of sight of another boat.

Thank you for clarifying my point. Here in Rockport the surface water temperature is about 70F so after spending one hour soaking in it you have most likely already become hypothermic. Most of the year it’s much less than that. To someone old or health compromised death could occur in as little as 15 minutes, if the shock of cold water didn’t precipitate a coronary event immediately. It’s attitudes toward safety like yours that help the USCG fill their fatality records, Dude.

 

[wkearney99]

no pointed knives onboard the inflatable life raft. It saves you from saying “oops, where’s the patching kit?”

Heh, that was precisely the reason I bought the Gill. I've put a toolkit in the dinghy with the Gill after my son ran over the painter and snagged the prop. Granted, it was on me for not shorting it so that couldn't happen. I figured a Leatherman would be a good choice for me to use on the boat, what with various things that could be unscrewed and such. But when we went through how to actually use the knife... the puncture risk lead me to find an alternative.

That and they both have a springy tether on them to help avoid losing them overboard.

 

[Hippocampus]

Dude, Coastal Cruising New England is not exactly the Bearing Sea. Let's pump the brakes on the drama and consider what reasonable coastal cruising in the summer months of the US is really like.

Yes, when you get dragged up to some town 250 miles from your home or vehicle, you're going to want to check into a hotel, have a meal and get back home.

Most incidents are not "Castaway". I can't recall the last time I was out of sight of another boat.

Did a simple transit from southwest harbor Maine (Hinckley yard) aiming for Duxbury MA. Early spring and NOAA failed to report upcoming weather. (Several bouts out. Got caught in weather. Engine intake through hull sheared at the flange. Was called overdue. Then lost at sea. Blew out all sails and destroyed roller furler. Boat lost all electrical service as water above batteries. Fresh water tank contaminated. Jury rigged a sail with Bimini. Ended up in Situate MA. 9 days.
Yes this was before current epirb and personal locator systems. . So very unlikely now. Boat was a Hinckley pilot that was normally day sailed by owner and might even not have an epirb now a days.
So let’s say there’s a strong offshore breeze or you’re on the side of a cyclonic event heading you out to sea.. For one reason or another you end up in the raft going out to sea. Yes the CG does truly heroic things but even they can’t fly at times. Yes epirbs and PLBs are wonderful but everything made by man can malfunction, burn, not be deployed correctly, left behind etc.
Admittedly this is a fairly unlikely hypothetical. So much so we decided to go with a coastal raft rather than ocean but I continue to think some prep and practice is justified. Recall reading somewhere deaths per travelled mile and deaths per time spent is higher for coastal than ocean. I’m unaware of any statistics concerning successful/unsuccessful rescues in the two settings. One would think time to rescue would be shorter coastal and do believe 24 rarely 48 hours is the outside limit.
Again where you are and what you’re doing matters. Even in August New England coastal waters are cold. Not so in the tropics and sub tropics. Gumby suits are very difficult to put on in a hurry and limit your ability to work and self rescue. Think for most of us an exposure suit you can work in maybe a better choice. Also getting into a raft from the water is hard work. Depending upon the person, setting, time pressure, weather and other variables might vary the order of doing things. Pfd, get in raft then immersion suit. Immersion suit first. On a large vessel with a lifeboat when time allows and boat deployment permits perhaps a Gumby makes good sense.
I still believe self rescue is the best choice if at all possible. We self rescued in the only time I ever experienced a truly serious event. This thread is about abandoning ship. Equally important to my thinking is having an organized easily available set of self rescue kit. We currently have one locker dedicated to that. But depending upon the boat could see a self rescue bag as a better choice.
My favorite suit was a Imhoff made for the North Sea oil workers. Can’t find one now so it’s basically Mustang or nothing. Can anyone offer experience and recommendations for suits other than Mustang? Kent? First Watch? Others?

 

[psneeld]

It is important you are prepared for the conditions you might encounter. Often dictated simply by climate (including current water temps) and distance from civilization.

As I posted awhile back, the vast majority of boaters in the US (at least East Coast) boat in relatively benign conditions in the "seasonal" months and close to civilization.

While true some wind up in "survival" situations...not many of the thousands and thousands of rescues (flown, surface asset, directed, debriefed, coordinated) I have been associated with, ended up in a survival situation.

When in Alaska, sure.... a big percentage were survival when they hit the water, the many off the Jersey Coast were not, only a few.

The definition of ditch bag can be anything from a bag of valuables, ID, and money instruments to a combo of that and a few things to help if not rescued quickly to a flat out outfitters store.

The list of equipment won't probably fit in one bag anyway if you are really conscientious and ready for anything that is less than benign conditions. So unless everyone is on the same sheet of music, all one can do is compile a humongous list and then make up bags (plus what's in liferaft kits) and grab "lists" for things not in bags that are appropriate for the cruise.

 

[Hippocampus]

We have four gumbies that came with the boat. The are big, bulky and pain to put on. They are stored under the master stateroom berth.
We have two exposure suits that are easily accessible being in a hanging locker. We are snowbirds now so coastal/near coastal with moderate water temperatures.
As said before you are much safer on the mothership than in a raft. That continues to be true even if outside rescue is required. You can always enter a raft if required for helicopter rescue. So the main emphasis should be on saving the mothership. My intention is to be actively pursuing that goal until the moment I step off the boat and into a raft. Our practicing to date is to have the wife prep for abandon ship. Even to the point of deploying the raft ready to inflate while I continue to try to deal with the emergency. As said by many what you choose as safety equipment and what you practice in your drills all depends upon the nature of your cruising. I’m not on a commercial fish boat with multiple crew. 95% of the time it’s mom and pop. I’m not in frigid waters except when in northern New England and Canadian maritimes. I’m in no hurry and rarely if ever limited by schedules and coastal. So my potential exposure to sustained severe weather is much less than when voyaging.
I’d probably take out two gumbies to do Washington County Maine and Luc D’or. But will decide Gumby or exposure at the time of need. Think there’s a place for Gumbies and they offer the best protection by far.
Think Mambo’s post #22 has a lot of wisdom. Think anyone worrying about hypothermia in New England or even mid Atlantic states should go take a dip outside protected shallow waters. It’s d-mn cold even in the summer. So some form of protection is worthwhile.

 

[rslifkin]

I've been thinking I should really go shopping for survival suits to carry on board (and possibly a life raft). For most of our cruising they're overkill, but early and late in the season even our local waters on Lake Ontario can be rather cold. If anything happens that puts us in the water rather than the dinghy, 45 - 50* early season water would be a really bad situation.

 

[psneeld]

In the USCG we wore wet suits under the early survival suits when flying over cold water before the USCG issued dry suits came.

The survival suits were tested and proved to be of minimal help. The shorty or long suit under helped immensely, I believe more than doubled and possibly increased survival rates to last over night.

So my personal method was if in a dangerous situation, the wet suit went on before anything bad happened. It allowed pretty good mobility for working on problems. Then when the big problem came and abandon ship could happen any minute, on came the survival suit.

If I was going to be in relatively untraveled or remote cold waters, gumby suits would have come aboard as even a survival suit with a wet suit are only good for relatively mild temps and quick rescues.

I attended a session with a smallish Alaskan Fisherman who survived several day in the water and several on land in below freezing conditions in a gumby. That session got me very interested in realistic testing of all this kind of gear in addition to the research I had done years before in Polar Operations.

 

[Hippocampus]

Yes worthwhile to actually put thing on and try them out. Personally find
I can last about 30-45 m in a dry suit before some starts to bother me from the seals. Hands, feet, neck something. Interesting in that in the water it bothers me less.
I can last much longer with wet. Especially a father John but depending upon circumstances start to over heat if not in the water.
Same with a Gumby and have more trouble moving around.
But like the idea of a wet suit. Also dual purpose. Just don’t get black. Don’t want to be mistaken for a seal.

 

[Davil1]

Epirb

Posting on this thread although is more specific to EPIRB

I carry the regular big boat unit for the boat plus the PLB attached to my life vest.

The “boat bigger unit” is inside the ditch bag, as I prefer the rescuer find me (hopefully) and not the boat drifting away from me.

As I understand, the major difference between the two units is regarding battery/transmission time, roughly 48 hrs for the “boat” unit, vs 24 HS for the PLB (24 HS).
Transmission power considered same?

Start to think when the time comes to renew the bigger unit, instead of same type replace with 2 even 3 portable ones, expense wise comes to be the same, roughly $900 vs. $250-300 each.
After the first 24 HS would activate a second unit that will equal the 48 HS of the “boat unit” leaving an extra 24 HS!!!for the third unit?

Opinions?

thanks

 

[Portage_Bay]

One thing to consider is you can purchase an EPIRB with built in AIS. The advantage to this is nearby vessels can quickly, accurately navigate to yours. The AIS transmission is constant and near real time. Rescuers or good samaritans will be able to more quickly reach you. Another is EPIRBs can be rigged float free and auto activate should the disaster unfold faster than you can react to.

 

[psneeld]

I believe those are "minimum times" based on a water/air temp.

Hart to extrapolate solely on water temp but I have never searched for research that has.

I would guess with some research may turn up actual responses to distress that mention actual duration of the two types.

I saw that McMurdo's PLB should last at least 35hrs if the temps are >10deg C.

 

[Davil1]

thank you
reminded me to also when time comes to replace my current 2 PLB (AIS and EPIRB)with an integrated unit.good call

 

[gilbertpark]

There seems to be a misunderstanding of the differences between PLBs and EPIRBs. Yes the battery life is different. A PLB (the small one) is registered to a person - so I carry a PLB in the boat and use it in the mountains. An EPIRB (the bigger one) is registered to a boat. There are other differences but this is the most important.

 

[Hippocampus]

Like the McMurdo smart find over the ACR. It’s on my Xmas list.