Cruising realities

[PierreR]

Once in a while someone posts something that hits you in the face and you can put everything into perspective. Barking Sands has such a post here.

I recall in my early years observing how we had really basic tooling to use day to day when compared to our Air Force and Navy counterparts. As an example, all sheetmetal and riveting was done using an old hand cranked drill, bucking bar, rivet set and hand hammer to squeeze solid rivets. At times, during large jobs, some of the guys would get angry because we had all the needed air operated tools locked up in the tool cabinet. They were decades old and still shiny.
It wasnt until my first deployment that I understood why. We landed right on top of a narrow stump sticking up in a grassy field puncturing a 2 inch hole in the bottom of the fuselage. It was repaired that same day using those very basic handtools.

This says it all to me and puts everything into perspective. I have been reading these posts on here and feeling somewhat callous and reckless with what I will tolerate before leaving the dock and going away from parts availability. Barking Sands post puts things into perspective for me.

A bit of background. My father, a native American was raised by a drunken father with no mother. He left home at 14 and ran a trap line on snowshoes in Northern Michigan until 16 when (no birth certificate) lied about his age to get into the army for WWII. He spent the war in Europe, finished the war in the South Pacific and then Korea. The first 26 years of his life he witnessed the very worst that humans were capable of. He vowed his children would be tough and not be victims of a total collapse of civilization.

His solution was that we would be able to survive off grid and be able to fix anything without written instructions and with simple had tool with whatever was available to us. I hated it, other kids could play, we could not. By the time I was 7, I could fix any small engine piece of machinery out there. At 10, I could drive and got a 1916 International Harvester truck running after sitting in a field for 40 years. By the time I was 13, I had built my first complex boat. By 18, I had built a 1967 mid-engine Mustang four-wheel drive that did not look out of the ordinary. When I left home, I truly was MacGyver.

Barking Sands post just puts the mirror up. I am comfortable with normally high uncertainty. Subconscious for me is the reality “If it ain’t sunk, I ain't stuck”. I will take off with my boat with very little pre planning and expect a great outcome. Such as, I have headed up the coast for 6-7 hours and we will shop for an anchorage along the way. My tools are very simple, and my parts list has a lot of odds and ends for raw materials instead of great new parts.
Case in point, brought my boat home from Louisiana last spring. I knew the hoses were all junk on engines. Changed the coolant and took off. In Cape May, ready to head north I noticed a sheen in the engine room and thought the coolant may be lower. With a good weather window, I went but noted to keep track of temps and the bilge. Temps started to climb and I pulled back the starboard engine to idle. Went below and discovered a pin hole in a 2” coolant elbow. Shut the engine down, cut a patch of rubber, cleaned the hose and patch. Used JB Weld 5-minute marine epoxy (5200 on steroids), zip tied the patch to the hose, waited 5 minutes and topped off the coolant with 50-50 mix I had on board. That was in May, the patch was so good it’s still there. I will change the hoses in heated storage this winter. It only makes sense and I now have the time. To me the whole 3,400 mile trip seemed normal and rather uneventful.
My wife came from money and is not comfortable with things I will accept. Barking Sands post screams “Dude, you have alien powers with a dose of stupid, give your wife a break and be a bit more conventional.”
I need to adopt the thinking that civilization is intact, I an not off the grid, I have $, I have a yacht and can certainly adopt ways my wife would be much more comfortable with.

 

[Barking Sands]

I need to adopt the thinking that civilization is intact, I an not off the grid, I have $, I have a yacht and can certainly adopt ways my wife would be much more comfortable with.

LOL..its a struggle. I look at many things through the lens of what the Marines taught me. One of those thing was this.

Prior to deployment..the machines are maintained in top shape. Once they are deployed they will degrade. Tooling, spares, logistics and training slow the degradation. Its a good idea to start at a high level of readiness to hedge the inevitable decline.

This also applies to boats that cruise extensively. Of course that is easier said than done. But that is typically my goal for a start point.

I balance the above with the axiom- "Perfection is the enemy of good enough" as well as the 80/20 rule.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[PierreR]

I balance the above with the axiom- "Perfection is the enemy of good enough" as well as the 80/20 rule.

Thanks for the discussion.

After years if struggle, I learned it's a lot less stressful to know the difference between perfection and excellence. Perfection does not exist and is paralyzing. Excellence is getting the job done.

My commute to the boat for working on it was 2,300 miles. Now it's 120 miles. I will be putting the boat in shape for the next two years. Getting the boat home with minimal fuss was excellent.

This torn rotator cuff was a definite problem in the engine room. Its fixed and I am on the mend.

My wife does not want to retire and here medical issues are more severe. I hope we have not waited too long but if we have, So be it, life goes on.

 

[Don L]

After years if struggle, I learned it's a lot less stressful to know the difference between perfection and excellence. Perfection does not exist and is paralyzing. Excellence is getting the job done.

Far as I care good enough is good enough and excellence is that it works and you don't need to redo it later just because it isn't "right".

I was lead nuclear mechanical guy on a nuclear submarine for a while. They like d that definition because the boat either gets to leave on patrol or it doesn't.

 

[Bmarler]

Pierre, I feel you regarding the rotator cuff. I’m on week 6 now. I’m supposed to be wearing that bulky sling for another week, but I just can’t stand how much pain it causes on the other side of my neck. I’m pain free though on my left side now, doc says right one is too messed up and shoulder replacement is the fix. Gonna put that off as long as possible. I’m supposed to have 12 weeks of PT but I think I can speed that up with hard work.

DonL, is lead nuclear mechanical guy what they really call you? You’d think the nukes would have a more technical sounding term.
I asked my wife about it, she worked the nukes in the Bremerton shipyard, she goes, yeah, that sounds about right. Amazing.

 

[PierreR]

Pierre, I feel you regarding the rotator cuff. I’m on week 6 now.

It's amazing how much arm chair cruising you accomplish on TF when you can't do anything else.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

My wife and I did +2,500 nm last year. That should qualify us as cruisers. We barely got north of Klemtu, which is only about 450 miles away from home port as the crow flies. We could do the same area in British Columbia for the next 5 years and not see it all. First thing people always ask is "did you get to Alaska?" Nope. Why bother when all the best stuff is on the way there?

I got some resistance from my wife when I put my spares and tools in the easily accessed cupboards/drawers while the food/clothing went down under berths, etc. But after a few "quick fixes" along the way, she agreed that 10 minutes to get a can of beans is always better than 10 minutes to find a hose clamp.

My general solution for spare parts doesn't work for everybody. I no longer carry any spare parts for my generator. That's because I was able to get rid of the generator. Which allowed me to also get rid of the freezer. My spare parts for the head consists of a bucket. Simplify, simplify. I don't have all the comforts of a "dirt home" aboard (I would then have a "dirt boat"), but that's just part of cruising for us. And it's actually the part we enjoy.

It is possible to be really comfortable, eat well, be safe, and have a great time without Starlink. In fact, some think it's better.

 

[Don L]

DonL, is lead nuclear mechanical guy what they really call you? You’d think the nukes would have a more technical sounding term.

well I was called lots of things but used something people would understand

I was a master of PFM

 

[Hippocampus]

Personally have done several distinct types of cruising.
International where both buying spares, tools or hiring experts is problematic. Not only while on passage but also after reaching a new cruising ground you are basically on your own other than advice from Satphone or email or if you have access to a friendly fellow cruiser.
Coastal is where you have such availability most of the time. Still have had times (Washington county Maine, NS etc.) where it is not available.
Another generalization. Cruisers have an us and them attitude. Think nothing of helping out each other even upon first meeting. Doesn’t matter where you’re from or boat you’re on.
For me the working definition of cruising is you sleep on the boat 100% of the time or nearly 100% of the time. It is your home. You may have a dirt dwelling in the background but the boat is home. It also means you have NO home port. There may be a towns name on your transom but you’re rarely (if ever) there. All cruisers maybe live aboards. But not all live aboards are cruisers .
Of interest got friendly with multiple Caribbeans. They universally said they could identify cruisers, charterers, tourists and locals with a glance. Not only from clothes but even style of speech and movement. A different state of mind.

 

[Fletcher500]

Rotator cuff surgery is a tough one. I did all of my PT but probably rushed the recovery process. It still acts up. Take your time, and be patient. Easy to say
I know. My other shoulder was a rebuild after numerous dislocations and other damage. It was a piece of cake compared to the rotator cuff.

 

[Bmarler]

Rotator cuff surgery is a tough one. I did all of my PT but probably rushed the recovery process. It still acts up. Take your time, and be patient. Easy to say
I know. My other shoulder was a rebuild after numerous dislocations and other damage. It was a piece of cake compared to the rotator cuff.

Yeah, sounds exactly like my situation. I’m putting off the other shoulder as long as I can. Glad to hear is wasn’t difficult for you.
Recovery time on a rotator is ridiculous. I’m trying to be patient but it’s tough. I’m very careful not to lift anything yet, (besides a good scotch) but I’ve ditched the sling as it’s killing my neck on the other side.
I’m w do you think you rushed it, and how is it acting up?

 

[Fletcher500]

Yeah, sounds exactly like my situation. I’m putting off the other shoulder as long as I can. Glad to hear is wasn’t difficult for you.
Recovery time on a rotator is ridiculous. I’m trying to be patient but it’s tough. I’m very careful not to lift anything yet, (besides a good scotch) but I’ve ditched the sling as it’s killing my neck on the other side.
I’m w do you think you rushed it, and how is it acting up?

My rotator surgery was 20 years ago so you are benefitting from more advance techniques with your surgery. I think the main offense was pulling on a wrench too hard to open up a fire hydrant, too soon after surgery. I swim or paddle 6 days a week and can do most things, but some stuff still sets it off and I am out of commission for a while.

Continue with your PT and resist the urge to do too much during your recovery phase and I bet you will be fine in the long run.

 

[Retriever]

Just to drive home the hazard of nets, we picked up another one today. We’re 1000nm from anywhere. This net didn’t stop us dead, but it slowed us down, increased fuel burn, and put added strain on the running and steering gear.

We stopped for 15 minutes, dove, and cleared the net. The hookah rig was invaluable. It would have taken much, much longer with just a snorkel.

 

[Fletcher500]

It’s common on forums to over think which radar, anchor, single or twin engine. This thread, which was the result of Peters candid sharing of his experiences is a good one.

Some key things: Trips and falls dont get mentioned enough. My wife and I have each taken some bad ones on boats as I am sure most others on here have as well. When I am out solo, I blue tape a reminder “Move slow/situational awareness” to remind myself to watch every step and be mindful where my feet are.

Secondly, going in the water is sometimes required as posted by Retriever. I am not in the long distance crowd but have had to clear my Prop in the open ocean and several times to clear some big kelp balls while anchored in the Channel Islands. When an intact root ball the size of large pumpkin and 30 ft plus kelp stringer wraps around the running gear, it’s not coming off by backing up.

In addition to a breathing device, I would recommend having a wetsuit on board. Even a cheaper 3 mil full suit can provide a lot of protection in cooler water. And a neoprene cap since we loose a large amount of heat through our head. Lastly, acclimating to working in the water by going in periodically for 15 to 20 mins. Even low to mid 60’s water will take your breath away if you are not used to it. I know some people on here will dismiss this in the water part because they have boated for X thousand years and never had to.

 

[Don L]

Over the years I have tried to find out what a "simple" boat for cruising is. While the idea has merrit, there really aren't "simple" boats out cruising away from home port anymore really. I ran a thread once asking what a "simple" boat didn't have compared to a complex boat. The most memtioned systems were that a simple boat doesn't have refrigeration or a watermaker. This was followed by boat size adders to the question about "going small".

So on a 30' cruiser does a watermaker make sense? Yes it even makes more sense than a big boat due tankage. I know of small boats with 30 gallons of water. I have 150 gallons and can go 3 weeks, but on 30 gals most aren't going to like that.

How about refrigeration? How long do you want to eat out of a can and have no fresh food. I bet my freezer and refrigerator on my sailboat are smaller than trawlers probably, but I can put 2+ months of meat in the freezer.

I know of 1 couple who fully brought in to the "go simple and small" idea. They refitted a 30' sailboat and took off. They made it a year before getting a small refrigerator. They made it almost 2 before the constant hunt to get water water resulted in a watermaker (way before I finally got one). I am impressed they are still at it 5 years later.

It isn't really how complex a boat is as much as how creative the people are on work arounds to them.

 

[Don L]

Trips and falls I feel are VERY dangerous thing to cruisers. No doubt in my mind the MOST dangerous thing we do is getting on and off the boat. We get in and out of our dinghy all the time, in bad conditions, and after drinking! But even on the dock it is dangerous. My wife put herself in a position of 1 foot on and dock and 1 on the boat once and let the boat push away. I tried to to help by grabbing her hand, but it was too late and the only choice was to fall into the water between the dock and dock (think about how dangerous that can be). She ended up with a broken shoulder that kept her off the boat for 4 months.

 

[PierreR]

Some key things: Trips and falls dont get mentioned enough. My wife and I have each taken some bad ones on boats as I am sure most others on here have as well. When I am out solo, I blue tape a reminder “Move slow/situational awareness” to remind myself to watch every step and be mindful where my feet are.

This is the big elephant in the room for anyone who is aging. In fact, it is the limiting factor for many people on the cruising dreams. In our case, that question has not been fully answered yet with a big question mark.
The choice of our boat and the modifications we are making are 100% about the safety/fall issues staring us right in the face. My wife is balanced and strength compromised.
I have solved most of the easy motion cruising and docking situations but still lack a way to use the dinghy or mobility during rougher water situations. Our boat is way more capable than my wife and needs more thought to mitigate these problems.

 

[SteveK]

Trips and falls?
I took a tumble (in a rush) after helpful people took our lines in hand only and the boat started to drift from the dock as no one tied off. Now we have a grappling hook/line tossed over the bull rail, tied off midship.
Never let anyone take the bow line! that way the stern will still be at the dock when you try to step off the swimgrid.
That was the last time I shut the engines off before being tied to the dock.

 

[psneeld]

Simple boats can be also equated to the kind of cruising one does in addition to the luxuries they wish to carry along.

 

[dannc]

...
Some key things: Trips and falls dont get mentioned enough. My wife and I have each taken some bad ones on boats as I am sure most others on here have as well. ...

Steve Dashew fell while taking a photo, I think he was on the dock, which messed up his knee. It seemed the fall was one of the reasons they swallowed the anchor.

Wayne's falling, caused by a health issue, is what caused him and Christine to sell Mobious.

Years ago, I went to take a photo of a sunset, step off the boat onto the dock and slipped. I did not fall down but I remember saying that could have been bad. Can't remember WHY I slipped, there was nothing wrong with the dock but slip I did.

Many marina's we have been in have long ramps from shore to the dock. The ramps can be quite steep depending on the state of the tide and slippery especially when wet. Even though the AL ramp is grooved for traction it can still be slick.

One boat we sail on has a rounded area where one has to step to get on/off the boat. That spot is treacherous...

Later,
Dan

 

[Bmarler]

It’s common on forums to over think which radar, anchor, single or twin engine. This thread, which was the result of Peters candid sharing of his experiences is a good one.

Some key things: Trips and falls dont get mentioned enough. My wife and I have each taken some bad ones on boats as I am sure most others on here have as well. When I am out solo, I blue tape a reminder “Move slow/situational awareness” to remind myself to watch every step and be mindful where my feet are.

Secondly, going in the water is sometimes required as posted by Retriever. I am not in the long distance crowd but have had to clear my Prop in the open ocean and several times to clear some big kelp balls while anchored in the Channel Islands. When an intact root ball the size of large pumpkin and 30 ft plus kelp stringer wraps around the running gear, it’s not coming off by backing up.

In addition to a breathing device, I would recommend having a wetsuit on board. Even a cheaper 3 mil full suit can provide a lot of protection in cooler water. And a neoprene cap since we loose a large amount of heat through our head. Lastly, acclimating to working in the water by going in periodically for 15 to 20 mins. Even low to mid 60’s water will take your breath away if you are not used to it. I know some people on here will dismiss this in the water part because they have boated for X thousand years and never had to.

Good subject. I find the older I get, the less I want to get in the water.
You mention keeping a wetsuit onhand. I used to do that, but find a dry suit is easier to handle. I keep a less expensive waterski type dry suit onboard. It’s easier to get in and out of compared to my old wetsuit. I have a weight belt too. It’s nice to be slightly negative when going in to cut stuff off the prop.
I hope it’s not going to happen so much with this boats keel and rudder design, but it still could. Best to be prepared.

 

[captmikem]

A few thoughts here:
I have done a bit of crusing, including a circumnavigation with a sailboat, and later a circumnavigation with a motoryacht.

I have found the most failures were autopilots and pumps. I used to carry spare autopilot heads and spare pumps, but never seemed to have enough. I found when putting in a pump I made it easy to install/remove and had a spare, that way I could install my spare easily and then rebuild the old pump as the spare. (End up with a lot of different pumps though...)

I carried a lot of spares that I never used, but found o-ring kits, electrical wire, splices, terminals with a GOOD crimper to always be in use. I carried spare injectors, spare alternator, and if the water pump was mounted, a spare pump and rebuild kit. Lots of the usual; filters, hoses, impellers, zincs, hose clamps, head parts etc.

I am lucky that I can fix just about anything but I met many folks out cruising that really did not have much of a clue about fixing things, but they managed.
I think the important thing is just getting out there and doing it, but at least get a few books on basic plumbing, electrical, boat systems, and engine repair, and reading threads like this.

M

 

[DavidU]

I'm not sure if I'm getting ahead of the game or behind the game after reading so many of these posts. I think joining TF is a step towards trying to get ahead. Reading TF proves to me how far behind I am. And that's good. The knowledge/skill base here is overwhelming to me but I come from a different place. Retired Apr. 23, boated all my life but not like this, this has been a goal. Previous life it made more sense to work and make the money to pay someone to fix everything, mow the grass, everything....and it was still a win. Now, I see, thanks to threads like this, you can't do/fix things with money. Some things, some places, some of the time you can, but, be aware, only sometimes. As I contemplate my future cruising life, realizing the challenging and demanding nature of venturing far outside the acceptance of my Amex is a great early education. Beneficially for me, threads like these help me understand my immediate cruising grounds, which then lends itself most importantly to define what you are going to/CAN do with your new boat as you pursue your purchase. I can learn, but experience is the greatest teacher. Currently, I can't MacGyver very much. I can YouTube though, and I'll listen to y'all with the know how, and now that I've got the time and willingness to get there, hopefully I'll become competent at some of the basics. My cruising ground is shrinking, but the hope is that's only temporary.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yeah, me too. Fixed a lot of stuff, replaced a lot of stuff and still got the batteries to do.

But the boat is hauled and painted and still waiting for the fab shop to fix the swim platform bracket. Yes, it's bronze. A lot of bronze on old boats...

But the badly leaking and over due for replacement shaft packing is done and not something I could do by myself. Nuts locked. At least they didn't have to remove the water heater. Still a grand to replace the packing. I think it was twenty bucks for materials.

Yeah, the more you can do yourself the better, but as Clint would say;

"A man's got to know his limitations"

 

[Blissboat]

Previous life it made more sense to work and make the money to pay someone to fix everything, mow the grass, everything....and it was still a win. Now, I see, thanks to threads like this, you can't do/fix things with money. Some things, some places, some of the time you can, but, be aware, only sometimes. As I contemplate my future cruising life, realizing the challenging and demanding nature of venturing far outside the acceptance of my Amex is a great early education.

I salute your insightful recognition of the boundaries of boating. In most coastal cruising venues, a credit card can enable you to recover (eventually) from a grounding or an equipment casualty, and get your boat underway again. The further offshore you choose to go, the less true that becomes. At a certain point, you look around yourself and somewhere deep inside your soul, you realize that the sea is utterly indifferent to who you are, what you've done with your life, the extent of your credit line or how much cash you happen to be carrying. Some find that realization unsettling, others find it liberating.

 

[ksanders]

I'm not sure if I'm getting ahead of the game or behind the game after reading so many of these posts. I think joining TF is a step towards trying to get ahead. Reading TF proves to me how far behind I am. And that's good. The knowledge/skill base here is overwhelming to me but I come from a different place. Retired Apr. 23, boated all my life but not like this, this has been a goal. Previous life it made more sense to work and make the money to pay someone to fix everything, mow the grass, everything....and it was still a win. Now, I see, thanks to threads like this, you can't do/fix things with money. Some things, some places, some of the time you can, but, be aware, only sometimes. As I contemplate my future cruising life, realizing the challenging and demanding nature of venturing far outside the acceptance of my Amex is a great early education. Beneficially for me, threads like these help me understand my immediate cruising grounds, which then lends itself most importantly to define what you are going to/CAN do with your new boat as you pursue your purchase. I can learn, but experience is the greatest teacher. Currently, I can't MacGyver very much. I can YouTube though, and I'll listen to y'all with the know how, and now that I've got the time and willingness to get there, hopefully I'll become competent at some of the basics. My cruising ground is shrinking, but the hope is that's only temporary.

You are on the right track!

With the realization that you need to learn, I'm sure you will do what it takes to be a successful cruiser!!!

 

[twistedtree]

I'm not sure if I'm getting ahead of the game or behind the game after reading so many of these posts. I think joining TF is a step towards trying to get ahead. Reading TF proves to me how far behind I am. And that's good. The knowledge/skill base here is overwhelming to me but I come from a different place. Retired Apr. 23, boated all my life but not like this, this has been a goal. Previous life it made more sense to work and make the money to pay someone to fix everything, mow the grass, everything....and it was still a win. Now, I see, thanks to threads like this, you can't do/fix things with money. Some things, some places, some of the time you can, but, be aware, only sometimes. As I contemplate my future cruising life, realizing the challenging and demanding nature of venturing far outside the acceptance of my Amex is a great early education. Beneficially for me, threads like these help me understand my immediate cruising grounds, which then lends itself most importantly to define what you are going to/CAN do with your new boat as you pursue your purchase. I can learn, but experience is the greatest teacher. Currently, I can't MacGyver very much. I can YouTube though, and I'll listen to y'all with the know how, and now that I've got the time and willingness to get there, hopefully I'll become competent at some of the basics. My cruising ground is shrinking, but the hope is that's only temporary.

When you are working a job making money, and paying people to do other work like lawn maintenance, it's about saving time. The AMEX let's you do two things at once.



But once retired and cruising, it's just the opposite. You can use the AMEX to get things fixed, even to fly people in to fix problems in remote areas. I know people who do just that. But the irony is that it usually consumes MORE time (and money) vs being prepared to fix it yourself. And nobody wants their cruise put on hold any longer than necessary.


So when working a job, the AMEX can get stuff done faster, but when cruising, doing it yourself usually gets it done faster. So there is a lot more value is learning those skills. What better retirement project could there be?

 

[FWT]

"I can learn, but experience is the greatest teacher. Currently, I can't MacGyver very much. I can YouTube though, and I'll listen to y'all with the know how, and now that I've got the time and willingness to get there, hopefully I'll become competent at some of the basics."

Yep. YouTube and forums are a great resource. They help make climbing an impossible mountain possible.

Just remember to factor something in.

A video showing how to deal with some pump or impeller in a demo where its sitting on a workbench is a clean description.

But you will be dealing with it by crawling into the space, laying on your side and doing it one-handed with your left hand. Or its behind something else and facing away, and you are doing it by feeling it without a direct view.

Its like the old quote about Ginger Rogers. Fred Astaire got all the raves, but she did everything Fred did, only backward and in high heels. The genius on YouTube working it on a bench is Fred, but practice your Ginger moves.

Age and physical condition begin to factor in.

 

[rslifkin]

When you are working a job making money, and paying people to do other work like lawn maintenance, it's about saving time. The AMEX let's you do two things at once.



But once retired and cruising, it's just the opposite. You can use the AMEX to get things fixed, even to fly people in to fix problems in remote areas. I know people who do just that. But the irony is that it usually consumes MORE time (and money) vs being prepared to fix it yourself. And nobody wants their cruise put on hold any longer than necessary.


So when working a job, the AMEX can get stuff done faster, but when cruising, doing it yourself usually gets it done faster. So there is a lot more value is learning those skills. What better retirement project could there be?

Even now (working full time) I end up doing most of the work on the boat (and cars) myself. It's cheaper, which leaves more money to actually use the boat and such. And as you pointed out, sometimes getting someone to come do something is enough of a pain and takes long enough that it's faster for me to just do it.

 

[Bmarler]

My problem with hiring things out is that I’m never satisfied with the quality of the work performed. No you will give your boat the same attention you will, and doing it yourself gives you the knowledge and ability to diagnose and fix in the field.