Cruising realities

[rgano]

I have two belts running in parallel on my Yanmar round the alternator, coolant pump and crank. If the alternator bearing seizes up, the engine is OOC. Keeping a smaller belt aboard to run between coolant pump and crank is a good idea except for the fact that there is no adjustment between to two to enable slipping the belt on them. For that reason, I am contemplating one of those adjustable length belts.

 

[ksanders]

Well I stopped the engine as the sail was up and I checked everything. But in the end I found nothing. I was a Navy nuclear guy and we were always trained to believe our indications till they were proven to be wrong. It this is case I still not really proven the reading is wrong really.

And you assuming that anchorage was going to be safe.

My point is lots of people can not leave a dock till everything is OK. But just because things aren't "OK" doesn't mean you shouldn't go. I would not ever get to go anywhere.

I'm sorry but the fastest way to get yourself in a real pickle is to leave somewhere like an anchorage (yes assumed to be safe), or a dock with things not working right on your propulsion system.

 

[Don L]

I'm sorry but the fastest way to get yourself in a real pickle is to leave somewhere like an anchorage (yes assumed to be safe), or a dock with things not working right on your propulsion system.

well that was 800 miles and 8 months ago, guess I will make it

But I am not interested in continuing this battle

 

[ksanders]

well that was 800 miles and 8 months ago, guess I will make it

But I am not interested in continuing this battle

My friend, no battle, and no offense intended.

 

[twistedtree]

I have two belts running in parallel on my Yanmar round the alternator, coolant pump and crank. If the alternator bearing seizes up, the engine is OOC. Keeping a smaller belt aboard to run between coolant pump and crank is a good idea except for the fact that there is no adjustment between to two to enable slipping the belt on them. For that reason, I am contemplating one of those adjustable length belts.

Probably a case where a replacement alternator is the best option.

 

[psneeld]

Having been on the rescue side of things for quite a few years...it doesn't seem like having everything right or many things wrong before a voyage....what matters is if you extract yourself from that pickle.

My experience shows that sometimes those in a pickle are often very experienced boaters all the way to the very inexperienced. What causes one to be in their pickle, I have no idea why much of the time.

I do know one thing....out of thousands of reviewing circumstances of people in boating pickles....one thing I know for certain (and confirmed with my experience in aviation safety also).... there are a lot of people that say one thing....but the reality shows they are lying through their teeth or they truly believe something that just ain't so (like they are aground but are claiming to be in the channel)

 

[Don L]

(like they are aground but are claiming to be in the channel)

as read on ICW posts "I was in the channel in 8' of water and just went aground" :lol:

 

[SteveK]

Very good questions!!!

We carry a spare alternator, and a spare tensioner, and of course a spare engine

Best reason yet to have two engines, many parts to keep one going.
For a few months I had one engine down waiting for me to fix it. I never worried about a problem with the second one as I had a spare part for all but one item.

 

[Blissboat]

This thread reminds me of a big German-built passenger ferry that (many years ago) was operating casino cruises to nowhere under a loophole in Florida statutes. When I boarded her one evening for a ride-along, the USCG-licensed skipper, who happened to be from Texas and was a gnarly veteran of offshore oil patch workboats, oriented me thus:

"This here's the sorriest piece of $#!^ you ever flopped your a$$ in the driver's seat of. Every manual, every equipment label and every data plate is in German. Anytime something breaks, you've gotta figure out what you need and order it from some (expletive) place in Germany, and by the time it gets here, you got used to doing without for so long you can hardly remember why you ordered it in the first place."

Okay, so no doubt he was exaggerating his McGiver act the tiniest bit - he was from Texas, after all. But a year or so later that vessel wound up on the bottom of the Gulf Stream, after putting to sea trying to dodge an approaching hurricane (the crew all survived). Sometimes that story about making do with what you've got makes me chuckle and shake my head. Stands out in contrast to the many, many other boaters I've known who wouldn't dream of leaving the dock unless every system and piece of gear was 100%.

To be clear, for U.S. inspected vessels, Subchapter T states that "Gauges to indicate engine revolutions per minute (RPM), jacket water discharge temperature, and lubricating oil pressure must be provided for all propulsion engines installed in the vessel. The gauges must be readily visible at the operating station." And in my experience, the Coast Guard inspector will want to see everything start up and operate. In other words, if it's aboard the boat, it needs to work. I've always let that guide my personal boating practice, as well.

 

[guy with a boat]

…For a few months I had one engine down waiting for me to fix it. I never worried about a problem with the second one as I had a spare part for all but one item.

For a few months? Doesn’t that conflict with “I only need one engine so I have 2”? Sounds like you joined the single-engine crowd for a few months.

 

[SteveK]

For a few months? Doesn’t that conflict with “I only need one engine so I have 2”? Sounds like you joined the single-engine crowd for a few months.

Not at all, it shows you that having two, one is always available. No downtime cruising.

 

[diver dave]

-Right at the very end of last season the Raymarine auto pilot started throwing a “Current Limit” error that throws the AP into standby. I understand what that means but it’s popping up while it’s already in standby.

My Rocna Vulcan anchor was stolen! Great where do you find a #55 anchor laying around? .

My Raymarine was doing that same fault on the way back from the boatyard 14 months ago. It self-resolved a day or two later, and has since worked flawlessly for a few thousand miles of heavy use. Weird....

Sorry to hear of your anchor loss. You previous one is working very fine for us in our travels.

 

[High Wire]

My Raymarine was doing that same fault on the way back from the boatyard 14 months ago. It self-resolved a day or two later, and has since worked flawlessly for a few thousand miles of heavy use. Weird....

Sorry to hear of your anchor loss. You previous one is working very fine for us in our travels.

Funny, last year the CL error would go away after being powered up for an hour or so. This year no dice.


I still can't believe someone stole the anchor about 12 feet off the ground. The weird thing was they would have needed pliers to remove the mousing wire and to unscrew the shackle pin. After removing the anchor, they PUT THE SHACKLE PIN BACK IN THE SHACKLE tight on the chain!!! BTW they took the wire too. Not your avg junkie thief. Obviously a knowledgeable cruiser with a serious case of anchor envy. BOLO 25Kg Rocna Vulcan on a boat that wouldn't normally have a $1000 anchor.

 

[Hippocampus]

As usual peter in post 34 got it right. When cruising and passagemakiing it’s the disabling single point failures that are key. One side is spares, tools and expertise to address them. It’s not one spare but multiples. At least a dozen racors. Try to have only one type of pump and three of them. Have an extra AP drive. But on the other is preventive maintenance and replacement. On sail voyaging people replace the 1x19 standing rigging at 8 years. It’s big expense but losing a mast is show over mid ocean. Yes at least two of each ancillary device if there’s no work around. Even with a watermaker and two water tanks we carried enough flats of water for each crew for each day of passage plus an extra of 1/3 the total days of expected passage. You can go a month without food but only a week without water. You can’t work the boat once significantly dehydrated.
Four things
End up with as many as you started with alive and reasonably healthy.
Keep the water out.
Keep moving forward.
Keep them sufficiently content they will work the boat.

Before passage you try to do every “what if…” you can think of and do the prep to deal with each one. Before passage you make sure it will happen even if you’re injured , disabled or sick. You can’t buy safety nor enough redundancy. You need to add in planning, training, attitude and expertise garnered from experience. Yes, if you didn’t bring it with you you don’t have it. But emotional decomposition kills as well.

 

[psneeld]

Part of cruising is deciding just what you "want" in the way of security and comforts.

Some think like backpackers on the trail and others think like the $1M motorhome owner.

Some people can take apart their clock radio and repair their chartplotter with salvaged parts...not me.... but having that knowledge is handy.

Some people love cruising despite their existence one step above survival scenarios.... not so much for others. Survival instincts involve thinking of things outside the box much of the time.

Depending on so many things and personalities makes this just another wide open discussion with the full spectrum of views.

Specifics always helps narrow down the valid points.

 

[Turtle Blues]

High Wire & Diver Dave'
I clipped this from the RM website it was dated '18 so somewhat obsolete but hopefully relevant.

I would add that verification of sufficient power delivery/system battery condition is required. Have seen low temperatures increase amp draw until system warms up.



"Current limit reported by autopilot control head or MFD

The current limit error reported by the autopilot's control head or MFD (supporting Autopilot Controls) may be indicative of one of the following:
- a failing drive unit: As the components of a drive unit wear, the drive unit will typically draw more current.
- a failing course computer / actuator control.

Fault isolation is typically performed by performing testing the current draw of the unloaded drive unit. To do so, the drive unit will need to be disconnected from the vessel's steering system. The drive unit's motor leads will be disconnected from the course computer / ACU and a current measuring instrument will be installed on the power lead. One of the drive unit's motor leads will be connected to ground and the other to a 12V or 24V circuit (circuit based on whether the drive unit was designed for a 12V or 24V power). The leads will then be reversed, permitting the drive to be tested in the opposite direction. Should the unloaded drive unit draw more than 6A when driven in either direction, then the drive unit should be replaced or sent to Raymarine’s Product Repair Center to be bench checked / serviced. However, should the drive unit not draw more than 6A in either direction when so powered, then the autopilot course computer / ACU should be replaced or sent to Raymarine’s Product Repair Center to be bench checked / serviced."


You may be well past this but thought i would add my 2c worth.

 

[Hippocampus]

Depending upon the AP good things to carry are a rudder angle indicator and a drive unit. Been told with old style APs the common failure points. Having no AP is a major loss.
Some RTW boats carry two complete units. Spare is fully installed with the pin connecting to the arm removed and put aside. Some will use as a spare a simple AP which operates independently from the rest of the electronics. Will just follow an heading. Another single point failure spot that will make you miserable so truly a redundant set up.
On the outbound started to hear a clunk when sailing in light air to breeze with a swell running. It was the delrin bearing just at cockpit deck level. Had a spare so 15m repair. Without the spare as the interior hole was becoming ovoid and wear would have accelerated and stressed the other two bearings and shaft. Could lead to a sh-tshow.

 

[diver dave]

High Wire & Diver Dave'
I clipped this from the RM website it was dated '18 so somewhat obsolete but hopefully relevant.

I would add that verification of sufficient power delivery/system battery condition is required. Have seen low temperatures increase amp draw until system warms up.



"Current limit reported by autopilot control head or MFD

The current limit error reported by the autopilot's control head or MFD (supporting Autopilot Controls) may be indicative of one of the following:
- a failing drive unit: As the components of a drive unit wear, the drive unit will typically draw more current.
- a failing course computer / actuator control.

Fault isolation is typically performed by performing testing the current draw of the unloaded drive unit. To do so, the drive unit will need to be disconnected from the vessel's steering system. The drive unit's motor leads will be disconnected from the course computer / ACU and a current measuring instrument will be installed on the power lead. One of the drive unit's motor leads will be connected to ground and the other to a 12V or 24V circuit (circuit based on whether the drive unit was designed for a 12V or 24V power). The leads will then be reversed, permitting the drive to be tested in the opposite direction. Should the unloaded drive unit draw more than 6A when driven in either direction, then the drive unit should be replaced or sent to Raymarine’s Product Repair Center to be bench checked / serviced. However, should the drive unit not draw more than 6A in either direction when so powered, then the autopilot course computer / ACU should be replaced or sent to Raymarine’s Product Repair Center to be bench checked / serviced."


You may be well past this but thought i would add my 2c worth.

thanks for sharing this note. I did measure actuator current and its less than 10% of the fault value. Its been faultless for the last year.

 

[ksanders]

Here is the problem with boat owners and wannabe cruisers.

We intentionally ignore things we see on our boats and then act supprised when they fail.

For example we will ignore that cycling water pump or vaccuflush toilet knowing that it's not working right or that we have a water leak instead of chasing down the problem.

Even to the point that we will turn off the offending system when not in use.

Why... because digging in to a problem, is not so much fun.

But... We will spend tons of hours replacing the perfectly good 15 year old nav system on the boat with a new system because that is fun, and OMG we REALLY need to control our autopilot using our Iphone.

Then we start cruising, and are upset when that pump or toilet fails when we need it the most.

 

[Don L]

Then we start cruising, and are upset when that pump or toilet fails when we need it the most.

easiest way to never have a problem with one of those systems is



to have the spare on the boat, it never breaks after that!

 

[slowgoesit]

easiest way to never have a problem with one of those systems is

to have the spare on the boat, it never breaks after that!

Amen to that! Nothing that has broken on the boat in the last 90 days and 2400 miles was something I had a spare for . . . . . and I have a LOT of spares!
But I now have a small list of spares I need to get so I will never, ever have that same problem again!

 

[ksanders]

Amen to that! Nothing that has broken on the boat in the last 90 days and 2400 miles was something I had a spare for . . . . . and I have a LOT of spares!
But I now have a small list of spares I need to get so I will never, ever have that same problem again!

Yes, and then there is the also unwritten rule of boats.

whatever little job you start, will take every tool in your toolbox to finish

 

[Crusty Chief]

Interesting thread, to say the least.

This might require starting a new thread, but it would be interesting to find out how many of the members here on the site are actually out cruising or have cruised extensively in the past? Might have to actually define cruising to get that information. For us, it was moving the boat for most of the year and going to different areas. For some, it’s taking the boat out for a weekend every now and then. And others live on the boat, tied to the dock and only take the dink over to the other marina.

I say this not to be negative to some, but fixing a broke boat down in El Salvador is completely different than sitting at the Marina in Ft. Lauderdale.

I cant tell you how many times a simple “bad ground” or slow leak caused me to rethink how I could fix the problem. And as many spare parts we carried with us, those parts ended up helping us fix another problem, one way or another. Mostly they helped other cruisers who weren’t as prepared as us.

But now I get to sit here in my little world in the desert and reminisce about the Cruising days and where we might have gone if we were still out there.

Cheers

 

[ksanders]

Interesting thread, to say the least.

This might require starting a new thread, but it would be interesting to find out how many of the members here on the site are actually out cruising or have cruised extensively in the past? Might have to actually define cruising to get that information. For us, it was moving the boat for most of the year and going to different areas. For some, it’s taking the boat out for a weekend every now and then. And others live on the boat, tied to the dock and only take the dink over to the other marina.

I say this not to be negative to some, but fixing a broke boat down in El Salvador is completely different than sitting at the Marina in Ft. Lauderdale.

I cant tell you how many times a simple “bad ground” or slow leak caused me to rethink how I could fix the problem. And as many spare parts we carried with us, those parts ended up helping us fix another problem, one way or another. Mostly they helped other cruisers who weren’t as prepared as us.

But now I get to sit here in my little world in the desert and reminisce about the Cruising days and where we might have gone if we were still out there.

Cheers

Good question...

right now I know of four TF members boats that just completed the Baja South and are now in La Paz.

Another two TF members boats that I am sure of are here.

So... Some of us are cruising

In reality it's pretty humbling to be in the company of these accomplished cruisers. We are a strange lot I suppose, but we are all here and are all stronger for the experience!

 

[Retriever]

This is a great thread. I’d add that long-distance adventure cruising isn’t particularly relaxing. I find it mostly fun, challenging, intellectually stimulating, and very rewarding, but it’s rarely relaxing or “vacation-like”. There are always things on the boat to fix or improve, weather decisions to make, logistical/bureacratic issues to deal with, and so forth. Everything you take for granted at home, like grocery shopping or doctor visits, are harder when cruising.

I’ve done 13,000nm since February and am currently “closing the loop” on the way back to Hawaii. We’re currently about nine days and 1850nm out of Honolulu. Weather forecast looks good, boat is running well, the crew is well fed and rested. We hope for no excitement, remain vigilant, and constantly brainstorm ways we’d deal with various problems.

Lastly…I think the risk of entanglement in lines/nets is under-appreciated. We’ve wrapped stuff around the wheel or rudders twice, once completely disabling us 800nm offshore until we could dive and clear it. Having equipment and ability to get under the boat offshore is mandatory for serious cruising. This reality has made me more conservative about weather routing, since it’s impossible to safely dive the boat in big seas.

 

[Barking Sands]

What a great topic of discussion. Halfway through reading this I got out my notepad, added a few spares for my list and noted a few scenarios to reflect on.

It is fantastic that we have such experienced cruisers to share perspectives. Much appreciated.

Fortunately I have a background that maps well on this new to me area of cruising boats. Aviation. And in the beginning it was Marine Corp aviation. Some may not know but Marine Corp Aviation has several special properties in how it operates since the Marines need to operate in the field from forward areas. I recall in my early years observing how we had really basic tooling to use day to day when compared to our Air Force and Navy counterparts. As an example, all sheetmetal and riveting was done using an old hand cranked drill, bucking bar, rivet set and hand hammer to squeeze solid rivets. At times, during large jobs, some of the guys would get angry because we had all the needed air operated tools locked up in the tool cabinet. They were decades old and still shiny.

It wasnt until my first deployment that I understood why. We landed right on top of a narrow stump sticking up in a grassy field puncturing a 2 inch hole in the bottom of the fuselage. It was repaired that same day using those very basic handtools.

So dont forget to go over your tool list to ensure the tools you have will allow for the R&R of the extensive spares and parts you will bring. Otherwise you are as stuck as not having any parts at all.

Pullers, prybars, scotchbrite, razor blades, mechanical fingers, long magnets, wiring/crimping tools, booger hookers (hose removal tool), hose clamp off tool, various hammers, maybe a small vise if you have room, etc etc.

I am actually in the process of removing tools from my boat and trying to whittle down the list to the minimum. And then rearrange in order of most common use and priority. It ,ay also help to go over your spares list and make a tool list for each major item, especially if it may require special tools like pullers.

One other thing I like to do is have "tool kits". On occasion if a particular component has particular set of tools I will keep those tools with the spare. Especially if that item is critical.

Thanks for all the fantastic tips and discussion.

 

[Fletcher500]

It’s a very small percentage of people on this forum that are doing the extensive long range cruising that Crusty Chief and a few others are describing. I am not one of them and am always within 50 miles of the coast and stay in the U.S.

I spent considerable time traveling up and down the entire length of Baja in a pick up truck on surf trips and sleeping in a tent and had some great adventures with my mates through my mid 30’s. But I don't have a desire to run a boat down there at this stage in my life for various reasons.

I maintain our engine and dont cut corners on PM’s and carry a full set of spares for key things. I also have misc plumbing and electrical spares, but my parts list is probably smaller than true cruisers who are gone for months on end and out of the country.

Climbing into tight spaces to work on things gets more difficult each year (and I am only 61), but I am still hanging in there and will continue to do our form of coastal cruising as long as possible. Then it's time to change gears and likely get an RV and do my best to avoid the crowds.

Happy T-Giving.

 

[PierreR]

Not cruising a the moment. We are negotiating our way through the golden years medical issues and trying to get ahead of the no go curve. I am 7 weeks into rotator cuff surgery and my wife has a new list of orthopedic issues as well.
For my wife, extended off shore remote cruising is probably in the rear view mirror and coastal cruising is the goal.
At least she does not have a clamp on me that I cannot do things if she cannot. That is why we have been married for 45 years.

Two things worry me for extended off shore cruising anyway. I am prone to sea sickness, my wife is not and I have a sinus issue that prevents me from diving more than about 5-6 feet down.

 

[guy with a boat]

Lastly…I think the risk of entanglement in lines/nets is under-appreciated. We’ve wrapped stuff around the wheel or rudders twice, once completely disabling us 800nm offshore until we could dive and clear it. Having equipment and ability to get under the boat offshore is mandatory for serious cruising. This reality has made me more conservative about weather routing, since it’s impossible to safely dive the boat in big seas.

Agreed. Very important and rarely discussed. Also not a small challenge, and more so in cold water.

 

[guy with a boat]

This might require starting a new thread, but it would be interesting to find out how many of the members here on the site are actually out cruising or have cruised extensively in the past? Might have to actually define cruising to get that information. For us, it was moving the boat for most of the year and going to different areas. For some, it’s taking the boat out for a weekend every now and then. And others live on the boat, tied to the dock and only take the dink over to the other marina.

The group here at TF tend to be pretty active boaters, or they wouldn’t find these discussions interesting. There are so many ways to use a boat that trying to categorize is difficult. Trawlers (loosely defined) are much more likely to be chosen by those doing passages than by day boaters, so some sort of cruising is over-represented here.

Not sure we need another debate about definitions of offshore and blue water and real cruisers vs posers. Anyone bothering to read a thread like this does, or is interested in, some form of legit cruising. Some do extreme miles and locations but almost everyone can benefit from the discussion. Future cruisers will benefit just as much as currently active cruisers.