Boat Prices: Has the world changed????

[socalrider]

Also shows benefit of professional photography. When I sold my house last year I had it professionally staged and photographed. Honestly, I barely recognized it from the listing - man, it looked beautiful. I had a half-dozen all-cash offers (above asking) within 3-days. Did I need to spend the money on staging and photography in that market? I have no idea, but I surely was not going to take any chances. Obviously, house didn't sell via pictures, but it definitely brought people to the open two open houses - over 125 people each day.

Peter

I think the top-notch photos give out-of-town buyers the (false?) courage to put in an offer sight unseen, which ultimately drives up the selling price even if the eventual buyers get a chance to see it in person before closing the deal.

Not surprised to see that Grand Alaskan go quickly - seems like a very desirable boat in good shape at a reasonable price.

 

[bowball]

It’s not a binding offer though. Gives them the right - and time - to inspect it.

I did the same thing and actually never saw it until I closed. But I knew the yard that maintained it since new.

What does an in person inspection really tell you if you are fine with the cosmetics and trust the mechanical evaluations?

 

[kthoennes]

I've always loved those Grand Alaskans. Just something about them. But then I'm a highly traditional guy. We get Boat magazine and my wife and I talk about winning the Powerball and buying a superyacht. We've always said we'd buy something like the superyacht Nero instead of some hideous, modernistic thing that looks like a littoral combat ship.

 

[socalrider]

It’s not a binding offer though. Gives them the right - and time - to inspect it.

I did the same thing and actually never saw it until I closed. But I knew the yard that maintained it since new.

What does an in person inspection really tell you if you are fine with the cosmetics and trust the mechanical evaluations?

It's hard to get a feel for a boat (or house) from the pictures. I looked at a lot of catamarans in person & found that my head would knock into things frequently - never would have picked it up from the pics but a total dealbreaker.

Another thing I found - sometimes a berth will look great in a picture but be unusable (for me). I found a few v-berth staterooms to be unworkable.

Smells are another one... and sometimes good strategic pics can mask a general shabbiness.

 

[bowball]

I've always loved those Grand Alaskans. Just something about them. But then I'm a highly traditional guy. We get Boat magazine and my wife and I talk about winning the Powerball and buying a superyacht. We've always said we'd buy something like the superyacht Nero instead of some hideous, modernistic thing that looks like a littoral combat ship.

They are a beautiful profile. Very similar to Fleming but higher.

 

[bowball]

It's hard to get a feel for a boat (or house) from the pictures. I looked at a lot of catamarans in person & found that my head would knock into things frequently - never would have picked it up from the pics but a total dealbreaker.

Another thing I found - sometimes a berth will look great in a picture but be unusable (for me). I found a few v-berth staterooms to be unworkable.

Smells are another one... and sometimes good strategic pics can mask a general shabbiness.

True. But when locked in to a certain model, and after a face time tour…. I was fortunate as it worked out for me when Covid precluded me from entering Canada.

 

[socalrider]

True. But when locked in to a certain model, and after a face time tour…. I was fortunate as it worked out for me when Covid precluded me from entering Canada.

You gotta do what you gotta do! COVID made boat buying a challenge.

I bought a daysailer (Alerion 28) for my parents sight unseen during COVID - we found a local guy with the same model who'd show it to us to make sure it was the right vessel, then I hired a surveyor local to the boat for sale to inspect. It worked out for us, but both of those two steps were crucial. That's a small simple boat too. Not sure if I'd do it with a $1m vessel or something I was going to use as a liveaboard.

 

[bowball]

You gotta do what you gotta do! COVID made boat buying a challenge.

I bought a daysailer (Alerion 28) for my parents sight unseen during COVID - we found a local guy with the same model who'd show it to us to make sure it was the right vessel, then I hired a surveyor local to the boat for sale to inspect. It worked out for us, but both of those two steps were crucial. That's a small simple boat too. Not sure if I'd do it with a $1m vessel or something I was going to use as a liveaboard.

Exactly. I wouldn’t do it either without a qualified inspection. And even more so, the yard had maintained it since new, was the most qualified yard for the brand, and I had great confidence in them. That just left the cosmetics to me. Further I had spent many many days on the manufacturer’s bigger models so I knew generally what to expect.

 

[ProMaritime]

The CPI (Consumer Price Index) has been bastardized by the politicians and bureaucrats such that it is now a completely phony number. The actual rate of inflation today is more like double the 8% or so being reporting for April by the US Government.

First the current CPI calculation ignores the cost of food and energy. For "housing" it uses a bureaucratically calculated "average rent" figure which is several years old and doesn't not reflect the actually rent or the sales prices in the current housing market.

Another feature of the CPI calculation allows the inclusion as a credit against inflation for price declines of certain consumer purchases such as a flat-screen TV set. A few years ago an average size one could cost up to $5,000. Today a similar one maybe as little as $500. "Yippee" say the CPI bureaucrats ever mindful of their duty to lie to the people, "We can this $4,500 drop in price as a reduction of inflation. Yeah, right. Ever try eating a flat-screen TV or use it to heat your house in winter. I kid you not, they actually do this.

 

[rslifkin]

No single number will give a true picture of the effect of inflation regardless of how you come up with the number. Inflation doesn't impact everything evenly, so some stuff will go up more than others, and therefore, some people will feel it worse than others (depending on how much of their money is spent on the things that get hit the hardest).

 

[backinblue]

I agree that photography helps, but eventually there is an in-person inspection. I'm sure it gets people to come look, not sure it helps make them buy.

 

[kthoennes]

ProMaritime might be off in the weeds on boat registration but he's right on the CPI. It's nonsense. I live in the heart of ag country. Milk has doubled. Gas has doubled. Beef has more than doubled -- 85% ground beef is $7, used to be $2.99. Hot dogs -- turned out by the ton every day in one of the biggest processing plants in the country about a mile away, has doubled. I mention all this because *real* inflation rates have got to start impacting recreational spending like boats very quickly, although I still don't see it yet, at least here. I was a little kid in the 1970's and I didn't pay very close attention to Mom's grocery shopping, and I do remember the gas lines, but I don't remember anything like this.

 

[socalrider]

I agree that photography helps, but eventually there is an in-person inspection. I'm sure it gets people to come look, not sure it helps make them buy.

In a seller's market I think it can - going to an open house that's packed with people & being told by the listing agent that there are 10 buyers who have already submitted cash purchases changes your bidding strategy for sure. FOMO kicks in big time - that's where a good seller's broker can earn their keep.

 

[bowball]

ProMaritime might be off in the weeds on boat registration but he's right on the CPI. It's nonsense. I live in the heart of ag country. Milk has doubled. Gas has doubled. Beef has more than doubled -- 85% ground beef is $7, used to be $2.99. Hot dogs -- turned out by the ton every day in one of the biggest processing plants in the country about a mile away, has doubled. I mention all this because *real* inflation rates have got to start impacting recreational spending like boats very quickly, although I still don't see it yet, at least here. I was a little kid in the 1970's and I didn't pay very close attention to Mom's grocery shopping, and I do remember the gas lines, but I don't remember anything like this.

Upper income households have far more cash now than they did several years ago, and luxury suspending is actually increasing now. Trace us up substantially, gambling in Vegas is at record, etc etc. so perhaps two different economies.

 

[FWT]

The CPI (Consumer Price Index) has been bastardized by the politicians and bureaucrats such that it is now a completely phony number. The actual rate of inflation today is more like double the 8% or so being reporting for April by the US Government.

First the current CPI calculation ignores the cost of food and energy. For "housing" it uses a bureaucratically calculated "average rent" figure which is several years old and doesn't not reflect the actually rent or the sales prices in the current housing market.

Another feature of the CPI calculation allows the inclusion as a credit against inflation for price declines of certain consumer purchases such as a flat-screen TV set. A few years ago an average size one could cost up to $5,000. Today a similar one maybe as little as $500. "Yippee" say the CPI bureaucrats ever mindful of their duty to lie to the people, "We can this $4,500 drop in price as a reduction of inflation. Yeah, right. Ever try eating a flat-screen TV or use it to heat your house in winter. I kid you not, they actually do this.

Nailed it.

And the inability to trust econ stats goes way past CPI

 

[CharlieO.]

Its just big punch to the middle class. Welfare will get expanded to low income families, upper income has a nice cushion built in. Those with little savings and living paycheck to paycheck will have the biggest struggle. My gas bill for my truck has doubled just to drive to work and pick up my son from school. He has no bussing available. If I didn't have to drive straight to pick him up after work (15 Miles) I'd be riding my bicycle to work.

 

[Beverley Ferguson]

Lot of headwinds in the boat market these days. Interest rates, fuel prices, white-hot travel sector is fading, and of course the gorilla in the room: highest inflation rate in two generations. If this CNBC article (Acorn survey data) is accurate, buying habits have already been influenced. In the last 6-months, 22% of respondants said they have delayed purchasing a car due to inflation. 77% say they are somewhat or very concerned inflation will force them to rethink their financial choices. This morning, CNBC investment wonk Jim Cramer proclaimed "The Great Resignation ended yesterday!"

Consumer sentiment has changed, but what about the boat market? Has the roaring sellers' market hit an inflection point? Is the party over?

Peter

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I agree the market is under supplier and over priced. Buyers who pay premium now will never get it back when they sell

 

[backinblue]

I agree the market is under supplier and over priced. Buyers who pay premium now will never get it back when they sell

I didn't think anyone buying a boat ever expected to break even when they sell.

 

[FWT]

Retail giants are uniformly coming in with weak results. It appears consumer spending is beginning to show impact. Beginning.

 

[backinblue]

Retail giants are uniformly coming in with weak results. It appears consumer spending is beginning to show impact. Beginning.

There is only so much discretionary money available, so as necessities go up in price (food, fuel, electricity, clothing, etc) spending on other items has to decrease unless people want to take on more debt which is not likely when everyone is scared of worse times ahead.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Disclaimer: I have VERY little faith in the majority of statistical reports. As I've stated many times, you can prove anything with statistics.

Mr. MV. Re: You're post #1. Interesting graphs BUT as with ALL polls, it depends a lot on the demographics of the data base and the type and tone of questions asked. The sample size is about .012% of the population. How significant is this?

For example: 22% responded that they delayed buying a car. Was the shortage of cars (new) factored into the result? Were these the type of people who purchased new every 3 to 5 years? Were a significant percentage of those polled now working from home or retired and didn't need another/new car for their daily commute?

Perhaps we need a statistical analysis of the various statistical analyses.

A great many interesting and concise comments so far. Thanks.

 

[backinblue]

RTF you are exactly right. Either side of any argument can always find facts and figures to support their side.

 

[mvweebles]

In the future, feel free to click though the source URLs to see if they make sense. There were 9 URL source links in the CNBC article. One of which was a comprehensive survey with a lot of supporting data is provided.

https://www.momentive.ai/en/blog/cnbc-financial-literacy-2022/

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

RTF you are exactly right. Either side of any argument can always find facts and figures to support their side.

I'm struggling to find any data that says economy is looking rosy and the glory days will continue on the housing and rv/boat market. There is data that says demand is currently strong but that's because reaction will lag the underlying cause

Can you provide credible information that high inflation and interest rates are detached from purchases of houses, boats, and RVs?

 

[FWT]

I'm struggling to find any data that says economy is looking rosy and the glory days will continue on the housing and rv/boat market. There is data that says demand is currently strong but that's because reaction will lag the underlying cause

Can you provide credible information that high inflation and interest rates are detached from purchases of houses, boats, and RVs?

No, to that specific question.

But yes to a related thing.

The stock market crashed in 2000. But vacation condos in Ocean City MD exploded UP beginning in that crash, after a couple of decades of dormancy in values.

 

[backinblue]

I'm struggling to find any data that says economy is looking rosy and the glory days will continue on the housing and rv/boat market. There is data that says demand is currently strong but that's because reaction will lag the underlying cause

Can you provide credible information that high inflation and interest rates are detached from purchases of houses, boats, and RVs?

I wasn't planning to offer any data or argument supporting any side of this particular argument, I was just making a general statement that you can't just accept data without looking a little deeper into it as RTF was pointing out. However, without doing any research, I could make the statement that inflation doesn't really affect the rich. So if someone has the means to buy a luxury item, I would argue that inflation is not a big factor.

 

[mvweebles]

Always amazes me how few people click through links. It's not that hard - sometimes an author is wildly off the mark and draws erroneous conclusions, presumably because he/she thinks no one will click through. But other times, the articles are well supported. When you accept or dismiss a premise based on cursory glance, it's typically a sign of an underlying bias or just being argumentative. Which is fine, just not particularly productive.

 

[backinblue]

Or you can click through as many links as you want and eventually find some "hard data" to support what you want to believe. Not very productive either IMO. If you want to believe the sky is falling, there's plenty of data and surveys to support it. What matters more is how it affects your personal situation or whether you will change your behavior.

 

[mvweebles]

So how do you figure out what to believe? Sounds like it's a catch 22.

 

[backinblue]

So how do you figure out what to believe? Sounds like it's a catch 22.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. How can there be polar opposite "news" channels? They can't both be right, but they each have their following that believes whatever they say.