Bilge Pump in a Bucket

[psneeld]

Better idea again is multiple bilge pumps at different depths as permanent installs.

We gave 3 x 3700gph @ 24v with floats set at different levels
Second one has an alarm

Plus we have an additional 2 submersible 240v trash pumps ready to activate at the flick of a switch.

Also have 3 replacement 24v pumps and float switches in spares locker.

Not necessarily better... while your set ups might be fine...a lot of electric centrifugal bilge bumps are lucky to put out half of their rated capacity.


One really has to evaluate a system to even guess what performance it will have when the chips are down.


I have seen large electric bilge pumps dribble when an errant paper towel wraps around them....and gas trash pumps eat whole rags, wooden blocks, etc and spit them out.


Sure it's a different tool....and it's not usually an automatic and installed system....



But unless a boat owner is willing to really go through the boat and evaluate the run, the head, the frictional loss to hose, voltage drop, bilge cleanliness, possible progressive flooding, etc...etc... adding a pump here or there or putting one in a bucket with a long wire and hose run....may not really be adequate.

 

[jhall767]

Although I have multiple 2000 gph bilge pumps in each of my 3 bilges I'm thinking about picking up on of these battery powered bilge pumps. I use the tools and I always have about 4 charged up battery packs on the boat. Would certainly help with localized problems like when a limber hole or show sump gets stopped up. Also to pump out a bilge area more completely. Of course for serious leaks a gasoline powered trash pump is the only solution.

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Power-Tools/Plumbing-Installation/Transfer-Pumps/2771-20

 

[Simi 60]

Not necessarily better... while your set ups might be fine...a lot of electric centrifugal bilge bumps are lucky to put out half of their rated capacity.


One really has to evaluate a system to even guess what performance it will have when the chips are down.


I have seen large electric bilge pumps dribble when an errant paper towel wraps around them....and gas trash pumps eat whole rags, wooden blocks, etc and spit them out.


Sure it's a different tool....and it's not usually an automatic and installed system....



But unless a boat owner is willing to really go through the boat and evaluate the run, the head, the frictional loss to hose, voltage drop, bilge cleanliness, possible progressive flooding, etc...etc... adding a pump here or there or putting one in a bucket with a long wire and hose run....may not really be adequate.

True, but to get paper towels in "our" bilge we'd have to have the rubbish bin in the ER tip over and the paper towels would then need to find their way past the floor boards and that'd take a full blown knockdown and some good luck on the paper towels part.

I just worry about the petrol pumps, I have seen many over the years that due to lack of use and usually being stored in a hostile environment due to petrol fumes ( you dont want them inside the boat) I would have doubts to them actually working when/if needed.

I would be interested in a hydraulic pump as used here - 180 gallons per minute

https://mvdirona.com/2017/04/fighting-water-ingress/

 

[psneeld]

True, but to get paper towels in "our" bilge we'd have to have the rubbish bin in the ER tip over and the paper towels would then need to find their way past the floor boards and that'd take a full blown knockdown and some good luck on the paper towels part.

I just worry about the petrol pumps, I have seen many over the years that due to lack of use and usually being stored in a hostile environment due to petrol fumes ( you dont want them inside the boat) I would have doubts to them actually working when/if needed.

The paper towel thing was just an example of how little will stop them from working effectively. Rarely is a bilge pristine...good for you if yours is but stuff from G** knows when is lurking under and behind stuff.


Good Petrol pumps work just fine if exercised monthly for even just a few minutes. The also come in handy for fire fighting should the need arise and you can set one up for it. If run dry of fuel on last use (recommended anyhow), storing below is no big deal.


Again..maybe not suitable for you...but for many a good option.

 

[dhays]

This is what I would like to install in my boat.



https://www.fastflowpump.com/bilge-pump

 

[psneeld]

This is what I would like to install in my boat.



https://www.fastflowpump.com/bilge-pump

Great for underway, generally boats sink at the dock when no one is around.


That's why pumping capacity should clearly exceed hose/seacock failures.

 

[Simi 60]

This is what I would like to install in my boat.



https://www.fastflowpump.com/bilge-pump

Does your shaft spin that fast?

I can almost count ours going around at. 4.52:1 reduction

 

[FF]

Folks that like to experiment can tie their dink alongside , flood their bilge a bit , then operate their bilge pump, on battery alone .

The rate of filling a pail can easily be timed.

Most pumps are rated to move water , not lift it .

3000GPH ?, not likely.

 

[Chrisjs]

Apart from all other observations here, it is not clear to me what the function is for the bucket. It definitely takes up space that could be put to better use. Perhaps it is the ultimate bilge pump (manual)??

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

With storage space at a premium on most boats a 5-gallon bucket could become an issue.

 

[Benthic2]

Although I have multiple 2000 gph bilge pumps in each of my 3 bilges I'm thinking about picking up on of these battery powered bilge pumps. I use the tools and I always have about 4 charged up battery packs on the boat. Would certainly help with localized problems like when a limber hole or show sump gets stopped up. Also to pump out a bilge area more completely. Of course for serious leaks a gasoline powered trash pump is the only solution.

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Power-Tools/Plumbing-Installation/Transfer-Pumps/2771-20

If you always have cordless drills handy, you can get a pump that is powered by the drill. It will be a fraction of the cost of the milwaukee pump and almost double the capacity.

https://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-1314-DrillPump750-Priming-Transfer/dp/B00F1ZJG5E

 

[rgano]

The emergency bilge pump needs no electric and will pump trash , paper, can labels , a gallon a stroke (Edson 2 inch) and should be portable so you can help out others.



My opinion only,

I agree in principle with your opinion. However, in practice, a gasoline driven trash pump is too bulky for me and requires regular maintenance to ensure it will not fail when needed. And I do not want gasoline on my boat. An electric trash pump in 240-volt is not an option here, and if there is such a thing as a 120-volt TP, I am still left with where to put it.

I carried almost exactly the 12-volt emergency pump this video showed for many years on my trawler, just without the nice bucket. It was handy right next to the batteries in the ER.

Having moved to a vessel with considerably less stowage, I did not opt to bring that emergency pump with me. However, the pumping capacity labels on the installed pumps on this 30-foot boat total 7,300 GPH, well over twice the 1,000 GPH per ten feet the video recommends. That and it's hard to sink a boat in a lift.

 

[dhays]

Great for underway, generally boats sink at the dock when no one is around.


That's why pumping capacity should clearly exceed hose/seacock failures.

Good point. OTOH, I’m less concerned about my boat sinking at the dock than I am it sinking with me and my family aboard.

However, I agree that I need to increase the capacity of my bilge pumps. I took out my transducer while the boat was in the water. I was impressed by the amount of water that enters the boat through a 1 1/4” hole in the bottom.

 

[Brooksie]

Title reminds me of a truism:
"The best bilge pump is a scared man with a bucket"

 

[Iggy]

Sorry, I have not read every word in every post. So if I am repeating a past post, oh well.

But I agree that stock pumps are not enough. I have 2 stock ones, a 500 and 800gph. I installed two 1000 gph pumps.

The pump in the bucket is all well and good. But what happens if you hit a rock or a large hose let's go. You need that pump working ASAP!! Not 2 minutes from when it happend by the time you set it up.

That installed pumps could give you minutes to get stuff together before she sinks. Or give you the time to get back to port.

 

[ORIF]

Does anyone know what Coast Guard uses?
I’ve heard of their helicopters lowering dewateeing pumps to sinking vessels.

 

[Don Souza]

When asked by a Coast Guard Ax. safety inspection. About a second dewatering device. I remembered an old timer saying. The most efficient bilge pump in the world is a scared man with 5 gal.bucket in his hands. Of course I didn't tell him about 1.5in manual diagram pump installed in the pit. kiss

 

[rslifkin]

When asked by a Coast Guard Ax. safety inspection. About a second dewatering device. I remembered an old timer saying. The most efficient bilge pump in the world is a scared man with 5 gal.bucket in his hands. Of course I didn't tell him about 1.5in manual diagram pump installed in the pit. kiss

Problem with manual methods is that unless you have enough crew, the person bailing or pumping isn't helping to find or fix the source of the water.

 

[High Wire]

Buckets. Try this drill. Take an empty 5G bucket down to the ER, pretend to scoop it full of water (if that is even possible), then pass it up to someone to toss overboard at 8 pounds per gallon, and then repeat for a minute. Those 1500 and 2000 gph pumps will seem like super-pumps!
Make sure the installed pumps actually work.
Have at least two of them.
If anxious about the need, hardwire install an additional pump of 50% more capacity than the biggest installed.
Think about the importance of getting off a correct mayday and reducing in-leakage to within the capabilities of the installed pumps.

 

[stubones99]

Why not install one of these on the prop shaft?
https://www.fastflowpump.com/bilge-pump

as long as the engine is running, it's pumping, air, water, sludge, trash at 800 rpm, that's 4800 gallons per hour with an 8 foot lift head. No other pump is available at anywhere near the price. I think they start at $700 and go up. All you have to do is make a bracket to hold the outer shell of the pump. Everything splits in half so you don't have to drop the prop shaft to install it. Assemble the vane on the shaft and bolt the two halves of the outer pump shell around the pump vane. Make a bracket to hold the shell so nothing moves and the vane can't hit the pump housing. Plumb up the drain line and you're good to go. As long as the engine(s) are running, you can probably save the boat.

For boats with hydraulic systems, they have hydraulic slush/mud pumps as well

I'm not affiliated with these folks at all, but am a believer...

 

[psneeld]

Scared man with a bucket?...... good until exhaustion or heart attack take over....have medevaced a few scared men with a bucket....don't think it's viable except on open skiffs.


The USCG Has had several gas powered trash pumps the could deliver by aircraft or vessels. Not sure of the the onse carriesd on vessels now, I think this is the one delivered from aircraft...


The CG-P1 portable salvage pump has a rated output of 120 gallons per minute at a 10-foot suction lift, and will operate for approximately4 to 5 hours on the gasoline supplied with the kit. The kit consists of a three-horsepower, four-cycle gasoline engine attached to a straight centrifugalpump that requires priming. A priming hand pump assembly is located ontop of the centrifugal pump. The engine-pump assembly is bolted to a metal frame. The nonrigid discharge hose is 3 inches in diameter and is permanentlyattached to the pump assembly. The discharge check valve is attached at theend of the nonrigid discharge hose. The discharge check valve is a snug-fitting flexible rubber sleeve over a rigid, vented end cap providing back pressure tothe pump, allowing the pump to maintain prime once it is operating. The intakehose is a clear, reinforced rigid hose with a debris strainer attached on one end. The intake hose is 2 inches in diameter, and must be connected to the pump for the dewatering operation. A debris strainer on the end of the intakehose prevents ingestion of large debris that may disable the pump.



https://media.defense.gov/2017/Mar/29/2001723709/-1/-1/0/CIM_13520_1C.PDF

 

[Arc]

Carried this for 10,years . Luckily never needed it

 

[learjett2]

Best pump...

Best bilge pump is a scared man with a bucket!
This is a great article get's everyone thinking, what IF

 

[Parro]

Pump in a bucket?,Great thought starter

I have been wondering for a long time about emergency bilge pumps.
I thought that I had settled on a small powered pump either petrol or diesel until yesterday that is.

A friend anchored not far from me went on holidays, I looked across whenever coming on deck, never anything amiss.

Until.... The bow was very low in the water.

Long story short,:
Arrived at boat - locked of course but I had come prepared with cordless grinder and crow bar.
Entered boat water was lapping at pilot house sole, waist deep in forward cabin.
It went down hill from there.

Frantic phone calls to supposed help, coast guard, water police, harbour master boat yard etc, none would help! The water police said they would come on Monday to check the situation. The coast guard said they would be hours away (5/6?)

If only I had my emergency pump!

10 or 12 other boats nearby but no one came to help, one crew actually Dinghy’ed past but did not stop as they had dinner plans.

Ended up with 2 pumps at a supposedly 66,000 lph each (yes, 25,000 gph)

Pumps managed to get water levels down after about an hour.

So, why am I telling you all of this?
The lesson for me is that in spite of my own extensive equipment on board they all depend on some of my systems functionality being available and I had nothing to save a disabled boat.

I could not start their engine or generator quickly, as not familiar, trying to get the owner to give instructions was difficult.
Bailing with a bucket was not practical.

Now that I’m sitting here looking at the empty spot I am pondering what sort of emergency should I be contemplating for my own boat and what assistance can be realistically offered to others.

My conclusion for today is an electric pump and small generator and smooth bore hose twice as long as my worst case scenario.
The pump and hose will be in is own sealed and marked container and the generator will be placed and used periodically to supplement the main genny, maybe to run a small air con overnight.

This gives me a useful emergency system independent of my boat systems, can quickly be explained to someone, on the phone for instance, and is low cost to put together.

I have never been inside an actually sinking boat before, but clear thinking is critical for safety.
First: stop and think for a minute or two.
Evaluate the situation, if it’s too late it’s too late.
Put life jackets on, this tells your head that it’s a serious situation.
Use a quick release bend to tie your dinghy on, you might need to get off quickly.
If you have others with you communicate constantly until things get under control.

Bottom line- It might be ok for the captain to go down with the ship but no point others.

No doubt others will have other views on what’s best, this is just my ramblings.
Oh, I did manage to save their boat by the way, and it was towed and lifted out in the middle of the night.

 

[psneeld]

Great job!....you certainly were a driving force but the 25,000 gph pums saved the boat....maybe a 3000 gph pump in a bucket might have but would have taken much linger...and if there already was progressive flooding or about to start...no way the pump in a bucket would have saved the day.

 

[boathealer]

One thing to alleviate the stress of thinking about all of these high volume pumps is to:

1. Know intimately every hole in the hull your boat - where it is, how to get to it as fast as possible
2. How clean and "stable" the through hull metal and/or valve is - replace NOW if questionable
3. How clean and "stable" the hose is - replace NOW if questionable
4. How clean and "stable" the hose clamps (you have two, right?) are - replace NOW if questionable
5. Same for engine raw water pumping system and hoses

Being able to answer each of these, positively, for every through-hull on your boat, and revisiting the list regularly, greatly reduces the likelihood that you'll need any sort of emergency pumping.

 

[Capt Ray]

Cool idea. I will be be making one this winter.

Thanks for sharing this video. I have always carried a smaller 1" version aboard. However, I think he makes the case for having a larger capacity one aboard now that we traverse in 39 footer.

I remember visiting a boat years ago whose intake to the engine cooling system had a plumbed in Y-valve above the through hull fitting. From the Y-valve, a pipe went down to 1-2" above the bottom of bilge. In an emergency 'taking on water' situation, one's own engine/seawater pump could save the day for the cost of some plumbing and some forethought. I have not bothered to do this to our new-to-us Mainship 390.

But, I'd be interested if anyone else on the forum has ever seen or heard of this.

 

[rgano]

And be careful stepping aboard a boat which has a serious amount of water in it. There is a thing called free surface effect which essentially means the added weight of your body on an outboard edge of the deck can start the water moving to one side in a slow and continuous motion which could put the deck edge under. I board sinking boats (yes I do) directly over the center at the stern and get a feel for the stability from there. If a step or two left or right results in things starting to get wonky, it is too late.

 

[Capt Ray]

4700 GPM Submersible Pump $99

Cool idea. I will be be making one this winter.

Seaflo 4700 GPH submersible bilge pump $99 on Amazon. Takes a 2" hose vs. 1.5"
Seaflo is a great brand, and good customer service. I've used them for my fresh water Pump and Accumulator Tank.

 

[rslifkin]

Seaflo 4700 GPH submersible bilge pump $99 on Amazon. Takes a 2" hose vs. 1.5"
Seaflo is a great brand, and good customer service. I've used them for my fresh water Pump and Accumulator Tank.

Interesting. Looking at the specs, etc. it looks like a slightly higher flow knock-off of a Rule 4000. Actually, most of their bilge pumps look (both appearance and dimensions) like Rule knock-offs. But if they work well, they're cheap enough to buy 2 (1 to use, 1 spare) for just over the cost of the equivalent Rule.