Bilge pump float switch

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I have used both ultra switches and water witch switches. The ultra switches will stop working if you get bilge grud inside that blocks the float. It is easy to disassemble and clean out. The water witch switches will not work properly unless the two electrodes are kept clean. YMMV.

It is the inductance of the pump motor that causes the voltage spike across the switch terminals when the pump is turned off. If you remember your high school science the voltage is L di/dt where L is the inductance and di/dt is the rate of change of current. When a mechanical switch opens the rate of change of current is huge. That is how the old ignition systems with “points” developed over 10kV across the spark plug.
 
Solid state switches. I have one installed on each of two pumps. 1 failure in 20+ years.
 
Johnson Pump Switch

Cigatoo said:
The Johnson pumps / switches look like a good alternative to Rule. Anyone have experience with the Johnson products?
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I have a Johnson Pump switch, the one that senses the level of the water through the side of the casing. It is very reliable and has worked five years flawlessly. Again, I have it and the Rule mounted up fairly high and use the built-in, manual sump pump to get water out every few days -- packing gland, rudder, etc. on the GB 32. If the automatic Rule pump even so much as comes on, I know I have a real problem. Spraying the bilge with garden hose and lots of Dawn Ultra poured in here and there makes a lot of difference.
 
I apologize in advance if this offends anyone. I am part of a commercial fishing family and have installed over 50 switches in my 40+ years of working and owning boats.

I wanted to really like the Johnson Ultima switches. I saw some bad reviews about failures, but figured it was due to amateur installs. 6 years ago, I bought 2 switches for the two pumps in my boat. I rigged a third one as a high water alarm. Over the 18 month period they were installed, I had 4 failures. (Three that failed and were replaced by the company).

I eventually pulled them out and replaced with the old rule float switches which i have to replace every 4 years. I can not say enough negative things about the switches

Just FWIW. Could be awesome units nowadays and they will last the life of the boat.
 
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Less than 5 years ago, I replaced all 3 of my old and questionable bilge pumps with Johnson 2200. To my knowledge they’ve never had to run, aside from my testing them at the beginning and end of each season. Two of them are now popping breakers, due to seizure of the mechanism. Just a data point for those contemplating Johnson.
I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to manufacture a reliable piece of equipment for such an important application, but it seems like everyone has complaints about just about every BP manufacturer.
 
I boat in fresh water and the Water Witch switch works fine. If they don't work in rain water, I would suggest a boat that is filling up with rain water has much bigger problems.
 
"These things must be built to withstand that backflash. The other option is to install another device, capacitor, to absorb that backflash and dissipate it over time as heat."

Auto capacitors are cheap and very reliable.

They are matched to the back voltage of an ignition coil.

The running bilge pimp will create voltage as it is switched off.

How does one figure the size of the capacitor for this situation?

Or would "close" (an auto unit ) be good enough?
 
I have epoxied a piece of zinc the size of a hockey puck under my Rule float switch, then just set it into place, because there was no option to screw it to the fiberglass hull or environs. It has worked reliably for years, with an active bilge. The packing must drip because the shaft does heat up underway (400 degrees on a sister ship, which convinced me).
 
Just an update - had an issue with my ultra smart float switch. I found the float from the float switch floating around my bilge yesterday. It seems the version I have is held onto the float shaft by a small plastic retaining clip and somehow it came undone allowing the float to simply fall off. I use this float as my backup pump and suspect it happened when I was cleaning out my bilge and spraying the hose down there. I guess the force of water knocked it lose. Just something else to add to my safety check - verify the float is still attached to the float switch. I guess there is no perfect answer to a float switch!
 
WaterWitch is secured by a metal tab. It is most unlikely it would come loose unless the screw securing it was not installed correctly
 
Per a previous post by Semi 60 I Installed a Whale Gulper with a Water Witch switch secured to a piece of pvc pipe. The pump draws up through the 3/4 inch pipe. Put a cap on the lower pipe and drilled holes to create a screened inlet. Makes for easy removal, inspection, and cleaning of the switch when and if necessary. Seems like a great setup. Ck back with me in a few years. Lol.
 
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I went to the boat the other day and heard the Rule 2000 bilge pump warning light beeping. Turned it off and inspected. Pump was hot and apparently seized up as soon as I turned it off. Bought a replacement Seaflo brand (less expensive) that I have used before. Turns out it was the Rule Super Switch that was bad and stuck on. Prior owner had a newer spare and I thought that it would be a simple replace. Turns out the screw mounts had changed on the Rule over the years and it took 1/2 hour to replace. Had I known that I would have gone with something better.

My bilge pump system is 1 small "nuisance" pump (the 2000 gph), and a larger mounted 1" higher. Both have the Rule Super Switches. Kind of like having a parachute operated by a rubber band.
 
Just wanted. To add an observation about these switches. Some folks have made them already. But just to validate.

I mentioned i went through these every few months in a 26 down-east diesel. They simply sucked. I felt like punching the designer in the face if i ever ran into him.

I had. One laying around and we threw it into a 21 Carolina skiff. Its worked well. (We did have. It get knocked off the pump and I subsequently hard mounted it since it was knocked loose during a noreaster and the boat filled with 1.5 foot of water and almost turtled in the waves - (so maybe i would punched. Who engineered the mount, lol)

I am fairly sure that any debris/oil etc….. effects the ability of these switches.

That being said, i would never put one in any boat i owned. (I gave it, new in wrapper, to a friend that was installing a new pump. I also warned him about it to keep karma good)

2 cents FWIW
 
BlindHog. Really? Anyone who relies on an actual float switch, either integral with the pump or wired separately, is asking for trouble. As you found out with the combination pump/float unit now your get to replace the entire device not just the float or the pump.

30 years ago I got tired of the Rule float switches which regularly shorted out duet to internal leaks and/or got fouled by material in the bilge. I changed to the solid-state level detectors to actuate each of the two standard switchless bilge pumps. In that time I've had one failure of a level detector.

As an aside my slip mate's boat nearly sank at its mooring due to those "dripless" shaft seal devices. Fortunately, I noticed his boat going down by the bow and reported it to the Club office. I mentioned that they are "dripless" not "sinkless."
 
ProMaritime, what brand switches? Im not a huge fan of rule lever floats, but i have tried alot of solid state switches and not found a solid state that can withstand an oily bilge (and dont bust on me about oily bilges) The old dino diesels sweat some oil, not a huge amount, but my bilge always has. A “sheen”
 
First, I advise to clean up the bilge of oil and its source as much as possible and keep it that way. Second, I advise that the sensors on the solid-state level detectors be wiped down periodically with a soft damp cloth. If the sensors seem oily, I recommend that the cloth be dampened with a few drops of mineral spirits before wiping.
 
Alisske said:
ProMaritime, what brand switches? Im not a huge fan of rule lever floats, but i have tried alot of solid state switches and not found a solid state that can withstand an oily bilge (and dont bust on me about oily bilges) The old dino diesels sweat some oil, not a huge amount, but my bilge always has. A “sheen”
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I always watch my bilge pump-outs to see if there's a 'sheen' on the water. If not, I likely don't have any oil or fuel leaks. To degrease my bilge, after years of trying detergents, I sprayed the whole area and environs with Super Clean degreaser, then added some to the bilgewater as well, let it work for a few hours (It's corrosive like CLR, I believe). I flushed it with about ten gallons of hot water, then sprayed the whole area with copious fresh water. It was the first time in 6 years that my bilge looked and ran clear.

For my Rule float switch, there were no real options for mounting the switch as low as possible, with no clearance and only the bare hull to screw into. So I used a scrap piece of half-inch zinc I bought and epoxied it to the switch, then just laid it in place. It's never moved and actually fused somewhat with the hull. If I replace it, it will be with the same components.
 
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ProMaritime said:
BlindHog. Really? Anyone who relies on an actual float switch, either integral with the pump or wired separately, is asking for trouble. As you found out with the combination pump/float unit now your get to replace the entire device not just the float or the pump.
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ProMaritime - not really sure what your point is in your response. I have two totally separate bilge pump systems, wired to two different batteries plus a high water alarm so I really don't get what you are inferring with your above statement. My statement was with the float on the float switch basically falling off - are you familiar with the design of the Ultra float switches? Did you perhaps get your posts mixed up with someone else as I do not need to replace any device.
 
djones44 said:
For my Rule float switch, there were no real options for mounting the switch as low as possible, with no clearance and only the bare hull to screw into. So I used a scrap piece of half-inch zinc I bought and epoxied it to the switch, then just laid it in place. It's never moved and actually fused somewhat with the hull. If I replace it, it will be with the same components.
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Thats not a bad idea to weight it down. I had a a 3/4 solid glass bottom and hated drilling it. I wound up epoxying a 1/4 g10 plate down and expoxing the rule mount to that. (I use the flipper switch so the base can be reused and you drop in a new flipper)

Yeah. For the last few years I kept my boat on a lift backyard and would power wash that thing 3xs a season. It looked good, but always a sheen. Ran the old lehman from NY to Bermuda 5 days straight just stopping once a day to check oil. Burned 2-3 quarts. The pic below was when i got to Bermuda, lmao. They said nothing. (See stained bilge outlet)
 

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I guess if we are updating this thread I will add my observations. When I got this current boat the long bilge always had fresh water in it. I worked to find the main leaks and fixed those. But of course water still gets in during rains. As many state I had issues with floats and pumps regularly. And of course the bilge pumps always left 3/4 of an inch of water anyways, which in my long, wide flat bilge was probably several gallons. I made a home made dry bilge system and put it on a timer to pump out 4 times a day for 15 minutes each time. It pumps into my rather large shower sump that is probably 20 gallons. When I go to the boat the first thing I do is turn on the fresh water breaker which will then activate the shower sump pump and I observe how long it takes to pump out. How much comes out of course is dependent on how many times it has rained and how long and how long since I have been to the boat. That gives me a good idea of how the boat is as far as leak rates into the boat since I can observe all the water that was collected in the previous period being pumped out.

As for water in the bilge...it stays dry generally and the bilge pumps never get a chance to activate. The bilge stays clear of debris and most of the time is dusty. You can clean it with a vacuum or a broom. So of course now the main and emergency bilge get tested every so often. They have not failed to work in 2 years and the wiring stays in better shape since it never sees water. I have somewhat changed the way I look at bilges and water control components. The dry bilge set up is to control the day to day water seepage. And both bilge pumps are for emergency only and to be tested regularly. It seems, in my mind anyways, this adds some reliability and safety and redundancy.

The dry bilge can also be cycled on manually.
 
Alisske said:
Not a bad set up. “Dust in the bilge”. Lmao. I have heard myths about those.
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Lol...not always. For instance it's rained hard every day here in Tarpon Springs. Usually for an hour or two at a time. The boat will have some water make its way into the bilge of course where it will remain until the dry bilge cycles. It sucks it down to just moisture on the bilge floor surface where it evaporates fairly quick. But I would say 80% of the time it is actually dusty dry.
 
Hey. No criticism. Just admiration and jealousy. Lmao.

Im in the Northeast and wanted to start a hydroponic pot operation in my bilge when pot was legalized (if it is legal, just kidding. Not my thing).
 
Fresh water in the bilge encourages growth of some undesirables. Sea water in the bilge if left to stagnate will produce gas that will attack stainless steel.
 
Greetings,
Might it be possible to mount a second float switch, wired in parallel, above the usual water level to act as a back up in case the immersed float switch fails?
 
Another vote for Ultra Float Switch. My 1985 Endeavour Sloop came with a Rule switch containing mercury. It lasted for 29 years and died. That is when I got an education on mercury no longer being allowed and the ball and wire being unreliable. I read many articles and reviews and purchased the Ultra Senior Float Switch. It never missed a beat and was working perfectly when I sold my boat 6 1/2 years later.
I am in the process of buying a new trawler with 3 Rule float switches. I will watch them closely and be ready to replace them with another Ultra Senior if the need arises.
 
I agree, non mercury float switches suck. Every single one I've had has failed.

Ultra is expensive (cost more then the pump), but worth it. I also use the "diving bell air pressure" type. Less expensive, not as rugged, but no moving parts. Just air pressure increasing as the water level comes up.

Mercury worked so good. As long as the hinge was free, it would fire. But not so good for the planet eh?
 
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