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Old 12-09-2012, 09:46 PM   #61
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Someone needs to tweak these to run on diesel.

The first outboard engine ever available to the general public that's capable of running on multiple fuel types, including kerosene, JP-4, JP-5, JP-8, Jet A and Jet B as well as standard gasoline.

Multi-Fuel Engines Any Time. Any Place. Any Fuel. Engines | Evinrude Canada
I saw one of these at the New Orleans Workboat shore the Evinrude rep said they will run on diesel in an emergency but will foul up after about 30 min. this was a 30 HP on a military application.

This looks interesting:
http://www.cast-aways.com/d27.htm
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:01 PM   #62
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bffloyd45 said:
." Keep in mind DeFever designs use a 10 hp motor as a come home engine and the claim is 5kts in a 29,000lb vessel!"

This is utter nonsense. - how about some DF examples in real waves.
i dont believe it either but its what's stated in an article i have a copy of from 1980 when boats configured like this were sold. They were made in Santa Ana California and also i believe Costa Measa. Not sure about CM.
I can email you a copy of the article ifyour interested?
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:46 PM   #63
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Marketing fluff.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:45 PM   #64
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This has really gotten silly. It's obvious that a small outboard can be an effective get home engine. As the boat gets bigger and the conditions get worse it is less effective.

Marin, your story of the current being so strong that the boat couldn't be kept off the rocks with 50 hp is scary but I think very few of us ever see currents like that. In less chalenging conditions the 50 hp outboard would have been very effective.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:38 AM   #65
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Hop Car,
I couldn't say it better ...

"This has really gotten silly. It's obvious that a small outboard can be an effective get home engine. As the boat gets bigger and the conditions get worse it is less effective."

That's all there is to it Marin. If both your engines quit and you had a 4hp on your swimstep I'll bet you'd be start'in it right up.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:14 AM   #66
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bffloyd45 said:
." Keep in mind DeFever designs use a 10 hp motor as a come home engine and the claim is 5kts in a 29,000lb vessel!"

This is utter nonsense. - how about some DF examples in real waves.

Be careful here, bffloyd45. Tom probably knows more about deFever boats than everyone else here combined.

And while I know virtually nothing about deFevers other than I really like the looks of the deFever 46, my guess is that they, like Nordhavn, use a diesel engine for a wing engine regardless of what horsepwer it might be. Different torque and other performance figures than a little outboard. So it'a an apples to oranges comparison I think.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:49 AM   #67
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Marin has with his last post, put the perspective of how to return home on, in the smaller single engine craft (0-35 foot?) with an auxaillery OB engine of compatiable size to serve the need as the owner sees it. On single engine craft beyond 35 feet, a fixed installed auxiliary method such as a small inboard with it's own shaft/prop, a hydraulic coupling from the vessel gen set, or a separate chain driven dedicated small engine.
The point is to increase safety as well off set the lack of a second twin screw engine application.
Each owner has his particular reason to live with a single or twin screw vessel. Safety is the paramount goal. It serves to have a reasonable discussion laying out the pros and cons of the different applications. Perhaps out of such a discussion, other forum members not as vocal as we have been, will be moved to explore the applications of the discussion to increasing the safety momentum he or she may have been contemplating and procrastinating on regarding mounting or installing a method of motivation out of a future dire straits situation or memory of the last one!
Been a good discussion.
As it continues additional comments, theory, specifics, and general good mood will be enjoyed.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:05 AM   #68
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"Each owner has his particular reason to live with a single or twin screw vessel. Safety is the paramount goal."

Its a lot easier to crunch the exposed shaft on a twin than have a catastropic engine or drive line failure on a single.

I ran a yard in Sag Harbor a summer or 3 and was delighted with the ability of twins to chew on a particular rock formation, and keep the crew busy all summer !

Running aground is part of cruising , the boat should be able to survive .

If there is a "next boat" it will be able to live in what the Brits call a "mud berth" where the boat is aground every low tide.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:15 AM   #69
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:35 AM   #70
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Ok guys, I'm back. What did i miss? I just had to run down to the marina and tell all the guys with the 9.9 and 15hp kickers on their boats that they wont work.
Sure you did. (I'm betting you did no such thing.)

Guys who fish in center console boats use "kicker" motors so they can move the boat slowly in calm water.

Again, how well is a 10 or 15 hp outboard motor going to move a 10,000 lb trawler in rough seas against the current? And my trawler is small and light compared to many.

Look at 100 trawlers and notice how many have kicker motors mounted on their sterns. How many did you see? My guess is zero. Why? Because it's not going to work.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:38 AM   #71
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This is an example of most boaters' "get home motor."............
That's my "get home motor" as well. The color is the same but the name on the side is different.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:43 AM   #72
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I think the concept of using a small (5HP) to push a heavy trawler in anything but calm conditions is unrealistic. Also, as stated previously, unless you routinely carry adequate gasoline or 2T, the OB is not going to get you very far. In the types of difficult wind/tide situations being discussed, trying to jury rig a small OB should take second place to getting anchor(s) down. It would be good to hear from anyone who has actually used a small OB to save their boat or who has tested this approach as an emergency procedure. While I do believe that my 40HP Honda / RIB combo would have a chance of steering my 65000lb boat in reasonable conditions, it would be good for only 10-12 miles before running out of gas (10 gallons). In a real emergency it would need to be already tied on alongside to be of any help. Otherwise time spent launching and attaching it could be a problem. I know that yards rountinely use OB work-boats to move boats around, but that is usually in calm, protected conditions. I also know that sailboats are often powered with much smaller engines than trawlers, but they also handle completely differently to beamy, heavy power boats.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:49 AM   #73
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Look at 100 trawlers and notice how many have kicker motors mounted on their sterns. How many did you see? My guess is zero. Why? Because it's not going to work.
Well, around here (north coast BC) you see quite a few with kickers, or with the brackets for kickers on their arse end. There is no 'vessel assist' or 'tow service' in these parts, and the marina's are at least 50 miles apart, so you have to be self reliant.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:59 AM   #74
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In the types of difficult wind/tide situations being discussed, trying to jury rig a small OB should take second place to getting anchor(s) down.
Anchorages up here can be over 10 miles apart, separated by near vertical rock walls that continue down another 800 feet or so to the ocean floor.

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While I do believe that my 40HP Honda / RIB combo would have a chance of steering my 65000lb boat in reasonable conditions, it would be good for only 10-12 miles before running out of gas (10 gallons).
Ours is 15000 lbs, or there about's, so it's an option.

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Old 12-10-2012, 09:07 AM   #75
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Well, around here (north coast BC) you see quite a few with kickers, or with the brackets for kickers on their arse end. There is no 'vessel assist' or 'tow service' in these parts, and the marina's are at least 50 miles apart, so you have to be self reliant.
Murray - I think you'll find that most of the kickers are for fishing. Many of the boats won't travel slow enough to troll for salmon thus the little kickers are added. It's a PNW thing because of the fishery.
I'm sure some realize additional benefits with their little outboards.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:14 AM   #76
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Murray - I think you'll find that most of the kickers are for fishing. Many of the boats won't travel slow enough to troll for salmon thus the little kickers are added. It's a PNW thing because of the fishery.I'm sure some realize additional benefits with their little outboards.
You're right, but there's many a tale where the line "...and we got home on the kicker" is part of the story

Nice boat, by the way
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:32 AM   #77
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I think that if your boating is such that you feel the need for a backup engine, you should consider that when you purchase the boat. Either buy one with twin engines (and seperate fuel supplies) or buy a boat with a "get home engine" designed into the boat.

Adding an outboard, custom bracket, fuel supply, steering system, etc. just doesn't seem very practical.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:36 AM   #78
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I think that if your boating is such that you feel the need for a backup engine, you should consider that when you purchase the boat. Either buy one with twin engines (and seperate fuel supplies) or buy a boat with a "get home engine" designed into the boat.

Adding an outboard, custom bracket, fuel supply, steering system, etc. just doesn't seem very practical.
There is no perfect boat for each of us, just one with the least number of compromises. I've never seen flybridges as very practical...
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:39 AM   #79
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Again, how well is a 10 or 15 hp outboard motor going to move a 10,000 lb trawler in rough seas against the current?
FWIW, our 26' diesel cruiser weighs 11,000 lb on the water, loaded for a summer's cruise.

Our 9.9 hp hi-thrust kicker moves her at ~4 knots in calmish water, ~3 knots in 20 knots and a 3 foot closely spaced chop. The larger diameter, lower pitch, lower-geared prop makes it work. The motor bracket puts the prop entirely below the hull (over to one side) when in use. The prop protector, like that in one of the photos above, offers a bit of a kort nozzle effect that makes it work even a bit better, although its primary mission is to keep fishing line and downrigger cable out of the prop in the swirling Alaskan currents we often fish in.

The kicker will not move us directly against a 4-knot current, but since our hull speed is only 4.5 knots or so, a considerably larger get-home engine wouldn't do much better.

A factory built-in 10-gallon section of one of the 60-gal fuel tanks is dedicated to gas and plumbed to the kicker. It also provides additional supply for our 2hp dinghy motor.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:09 AM   #80
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Rather than an out board, I been thinking about using the 12 ft Livingston 25 hp and/or 19 ft run, 140 hp as a get home to tow and/or push. The neatest set up I have seen was a Krogan had a set up on the stern that the dink fit into to so it was sort of part of the boat. We have towed the 19 ft run about many times, and it can go 35+ MPH so its great to zip around in and use the Eagle as the mother boat. Most bigger boats have a smaller faster tender.

As the boats get bigger, so does the need for kicker/get home motor.
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