Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-18-2013, 08:50 AM   #61
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
Sorry, If what I said was interpreted as "aggressive" it was intended to be ....playful

I firmly believe thrusters are more then luxuries in many circumstances and would encourage new boaters who will be operating in crowded harbors, locks, anchorages, etc. to have one if using a single.

We need to be realistic and encourage easy and fun boat ownership or we will see the industry as a whole suffer and shrink. I am in general aviation as a pilot and former aircraft owner I have watched the industry shrink as the old-timers left and were not replaced with a new generation, ask any small FBO how business is these days. Without "new blood" the G.A. industry will be very limited and more small airports will close, repair costs will go up and repair facilitates will shrink, affordable aircraft (used) will rot away on ramps across the country. Sound familiar?

Bottom line, many/most things on our boats are not "necessary" but my hope is that when new folks ask the "old-timers" for advice you guys (you know who you are) be realistic and temper your response to the experience level of the one asking the question.

I have a problem with the "cock of the dock" attitude anywhere when I see it, it fosters a "your not tough enough if you cant do it my way" attitude that discourages new or move up boat owners.

I'm done now and will put my soap box away, sorry if I hit a nerve with anyone, just trying to sooth my nerve.


__________________
Advertisement

SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 09:02 AM   #62
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Maybe if I could be allowed a final footnote here, I would have to say in all honesty, (and I suspect if pressed virtually all non-bow thruster owners would also admit), while I would not now spend the money to have one installed on Lotus, if I was buying another boat, and there were two nearly identical vessels for sale, similar price, one with thruster, one without, then yes, I'd buy the one with.
Every couple of years, some situation has arisen where we managed...but the thought went through my mind at the time... "if we had had a bow thruster then, that would have been a little less exciting..."
__________________

__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 12:26 PM   #63
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTTEDAVIS View Post
Sorry, If what I said was interpreted as "aggressive" it was intended to be ....playful

I firmly believe thrusters are more then luxuries in many circumstances and would encourage new boaters who will be operating in crowded harbors, locks, anchorages, etc. to have one if using a single.

We need to be realistic and encourage easy and fun boat ownership or we will see the industry as a whole suffer and shrink. I am in general aviation as a pilot and former aircraft owner I have watched the industry shrink as the old-timers left and were not replaced with a new generation, ask any small FBO how business is these days. Without "new blood" the G.A. industry will be very limited and more small airports will close, repair costs will go up and repair facilitates will shrink, affordable aircraft (used) will rot away on ramps across the country. Sound familiar?

Bottom line, many/most things on our boats are not "necessary" but my hope is that when new folks ask the "old-timers" for advice you guys (you know who you are) be realistic and temper your response to the experience level of the one asking the question.

I have a problem with the "cock of the dock" attitude anywhere when I see it, it fosters a "your not tough enough if you cant do it my way" attitude that discourages new or move up boat owners.

I'm done now and will put my soap box away, sorry if I hit a nerve with anyone, just trying to sooth my nerve.

I too am a private and professional pilot since 1978. The reason general aviation died is because of the cost...start adding things like thrusters to the average boat at $5000 a pop and convince people without them they can't enjoy boating and that creates a huge dilemma....maybe to the point of people thinking they can't afford boating either.

I'm usually one who doesn't make a fuss abut thrusters because I love'em when I have'em. Especially on a twin that loses an engine and becomes almost unmanageable on one.

But the more people try to justify having one instead of just saying they make things easier and nothing more...then I gotta chime in...

Plus the "cock of the dock" is BS in most cases...there's always seems to be one or two loudmouths around.... but many times there really is someone at the dock that all inspire to get to that level of boating expertise...and it's not a bad idea...just never gonna happen for the part timers. So yes..buy with or install a thruster...and use it...and enjoy boating...but to say it's a necessity even for a beginner just ain't so...
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 01:11 PM   #64
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
I could of used one last week when I couldn't get next to the dock because of the high winds during a heavy squall kept blowing us away.
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 01:14 PM   #65
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
I too am a private and professional pilot since 1978. The reason general aviation died is because of the cost...start adding things like thrusters to the average boat at $5000 a pop and convince people without them they can't enjoy boating and that creates a huge dilemma....maybe to the point of people thinking they can't afford boating either.

The OP asked " Are they an item that someone with little experience should consider getting when they purchase a boat"

I say yes definitely period, thats my opinion sorry if you disagree.

Generally a single with a thruster is much cheaper to both buy and maintain then a twin so that dilutes the argument quite a bit as I agree they are not needed on a twin. and buying a single without a thruster and adding one is still most likely going to be cheaper then buying a twin. The widespread use of thrusters standard in boats today show this to be the case as folks make their choices with their wallet.

General aviation is dieing from a lack of interest in fun flying (100/200 dollar hamburger) Most of the new students are on a commercial aviation track and are not going to be involved in general aviation ( I live in Vero and next to one of the largest flight schools in the country) I have many friends in the industry that see this everyday. The costs in today's dollars is no greater then it was 30 years ago and a good used single as you know can be had for 30-40k with annual costs and hanger fees less then what I spend for my 40 footer. I know this to be a fact as I have done both for years. My wife and I joke about how much less the airplane cost us a year then the boat. It was sold due to no longer getting much use as I am no longer in the land development and commercial construction industry.

BTW the "cock of the dock" is very true in most cases, perhaps you are to close to the dock to see it.

SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 01:16 PM   #66
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,421
It seems to me that we're getting all tangled up in our underwear over the use of one word. "Necessity"! I know, I know, that's the word the OP used when asking his question but had we considered the experience level of the poster we wouldn't have got all hung up on semantics. No, a thruster is not a "necessity." Nice to have? You betcha!
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 01:49 PM   #67
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by coke View Post
Can someone comment on bow thrusters or stern thrusters as to the necessity of them. Are they an item that someone with little experience should consider getting when they purchase a boat.
For the SECOND time I have had to repost the original because of him being misquoted...the OP asked about the necessity of them...plain and simple...then people wanna drag having ice aboard, swimming to shore without the dink, general aviation...so who's to know what people really think about thrusters....

Yes aviation can be as inexpensive as boating...but only to a point... and I'll leave it for another thread.

Sure a thruster is as cheap or cheaper than a second engine....but still not a necessity like a second engine...only for someone's pleasure.

And being to close to the "whatever of the dock"...yeah "whatever"...most people I know like to be proficient at what they do....and if a thruster keeps'em boatng and having fun...buy 2...bow AND stern thrusters...

Plus.... this is all just a goof as the OP has already made his mind up to go with one...hope he enjoys it as much as others do.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 01:59 PM   #68
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
So you are saying this thread should be closed?
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 05:05 PM   #69
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachbum29 View Post
So you are saying this thread should be closed?
No...why would you say that? Just because the OP made up his mind doesn't mean we can't go on forever....
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 05:23 PM   #70
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
Go on forever?

Yeah how about hydraulic vs electric thrusters.

Galley up. Galley down.

Single vs twin.

SD
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 05:39 PM   #71
Guru
 
City: somewhere
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post

No...why would you say that? Just because the OP made up his mind doesn't mean we can't go on forever....
Just wondering is all...
__________________
Life is a Beach
beachbum29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 05:46 PM   #72
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperdude View Post

Yeah how about hydraulic vs electric thrusters.


SD
Great follow up SD


I would rather not have hydraulic thrusters than to not have electric thrusters
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 06:36 PM   #73
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,371
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperdude View Post

Yeah how about hydraulic vs electric thrusters.
SD
In boats up to 75 tons electric is common. Look no further than what Nordhavn recommends.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 06:38 PM   #74
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Well, perhaps we almost all think we're better than most everyone else. ... Perhaps the most experienced helmsman of multi-engine boats are multi-engine-airplane pilots.
I think I could disprove that theory. My current boat is my first twin engine boat. And I ain't that good at handling it. I am learning and getting better every time out......BUT.......

I personally believe the best set up on any boat is a single with a bow thruster. It just makes things so simple. I wanted bigger. And I wanted speed. So I am stuck with two engines.

And yes, I have already backed my boat in on one engine...and I did a pretty damn good job!!!! Maybe I need to install a thruster and shut an engine down when I dock?????.....
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 08:28 PM   #75
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Congratulations, Baker. You're a better helmsman than I.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 08:45 PM   #76
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Congratulations, Baker. You're a better helmsman than I.
Mark: It's a piece of cake to run a slalom course "backwards" with a single & a bow thruster!
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 08:56 PM   #77
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Walt, I haven't yet attempted to back in a berth as I prefer to go bow-in to my berth as that's pointing upwind. Besides, the berths here are semi-V-shaped.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 09:33 PM   #78
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Walt, I haven't yet attempted to back in a berth as I prefer to go bow-in to my berth as that's pointing upwind. Besides, the berths here are semi-V-shaped.

Mark: I was just pulling your chain.

The last time I had the boat hauled, I had to run a tight slalom couse just to get to the Travel Lift. When the yard was through with the bottom job, they splashed me with the bow pointing toward the yard and absolutely no room to turn the boat 180 degrees. My only option was to back all the way out to the channel (about 150 yards) through a maze of big boats. Using the joy stick on the thruster turned it in to a piece of cake. As a matter of fact, I've found that backing into a parallel parking situation and using the thruster for my final turn (swinging the bow to the dock) makes a potential "sphincter puckering" happening into a "no big deal."
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4783.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	170.5 KB
ID:	21406  
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 11:58 PM   #79
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaHorse II View Post
... My only option was to back all the way out to the channel (about 150 yards) through a maze of big boats. Using the joy stick on the thruster turned it in to a piece of cake. ...
I can visualize that. Doesn't seem that difficult. Backing up long distance with a single propeller and no bow thruster would be something else, however.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 12:07 AM   #80
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post

I can visualize that. Doesn't seem that difficult. Backing up long distance with a single propeller and no bow thruster would be something else, however.
I agree. However through trial and error(mostly error) have found backing up in a reasonably straight line possible by slipping in and out of gear. Small bursts of reverse thrust have worked pretty well so far.

My small rudder is pretty useless at low speed maneuvering unless helped with short bursts either forward or reverse as needed. Have also noticed if my trim tabs are still in the down position it will have an affect on my low speed backing.
__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012