Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-07-2016, 01:08 AM   #1
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,187
Security or te, Pan Pan, Mayday

Securite came up in another thread and it was used in a circumstance I would not have used it. In fact, in thousands of days of boating on the lake and well over 50,000 nm coastal and ocean, I haven't a single time even thought of using either of those warnings or distress signals. Other than by the CG, I've only heard them used three or four times by recreational boaters and all those occasions the usage out of anger, not anything to actually warn someone. Also, neither used the proper format or formality.

So, curious to times as recreational boaters any of you have had cause to use. I know commercial boaters have more cause and those who have been in the CG have used them.

I see a lot of what I call yelling at someone who made me mad type behavior in cars and on boats. Someone didn't like the wake, although were never in danger because of it and they go on the radio to tell the boater off. Probably doesn't work as boater doesn't have their radio on. I've seen a lot of posts over time here of the nature of the "somebody done somebody wrong song."

I may mumble under my breath, my wife may curse loudly but not that can be heard outside our boat, but unless it's very serious, it happens, I note in my mind they weren't behaving properly, and I move on and don't think more about it. I can't make all drivers on the road do right or all boaters. I hope when I do something I shouldn't, they look after me.

I do inform those who I feel need to know something. For instance on a narrow winding waterway, I inform the boat I'm meeting that there's a tow with 15 barges behind me so probably should slow and wait for them to make the curve. I provide useful information. I've warned fishermen there was a barge coming through that could make things very difficult for them fishing in the channel. I guess Sucurite or Security just sounds too authoritative for me as an ordinary boater. I've warned a boat as I came in an inlet that it would be very unwise for them to go out it. I spoke to the CG and they issued a security notice. I've warned people they were entering a no wake zone that is well patrolled. I've asked approaching boats which side of the waterway they intended to use as we met, since at the time they were taking their half in the middle. I've asked which side a tow wanted me to pass.

I think one thing I accepted long ago about recreational boating is that, much like the roads, people are going to do things they shouldn't or things I don't think they should. There is going to be wake, sometimes excessive. There are going to be boats that come closer than I think they should. There will be boats going to fast and others too slow. But then that's like walking around in Walmart and one person practically is running as they pass you while there are then two ladies who have decided to socialize and completely block the aisle you need and then seem offended when you politely say "excuse me."

I guess I accept boating like the rest of the world, and, as in the rest of the world, I'm going to reserve my anger and actions for very serious issues.

I did interfere once with another boat, but I felt it was a life and death matter. It was at Miamarina at Bayside, Miami, after a Heat Basketball game. About the time we had settled on our boat, and other boats had pulled out, three very drunk men came walking down, almost falling in on their way. They proceed toward a center console and start removing their lines, which they were struggling greatly in doing. I told them they were in no condition to go out. They told me far less politely that it was none of my business and they'd do anything they wanted. By that time someone else had gotten the security guard who was next seen escorting them away. He came back a little later to thank us and tell us they left in a taxi for home.

I'm not saying what anyone else does on the radio is wrong or criticizing it, just curious to hear from other recreational boaters.
__________________
Advertisement

BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 05:08 AM   #2
Guru
 
City: Full Time Cruising East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Meridian
Vessel Model: Krogen-42
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 729
I used Securite just a few weeks ago when approaching the Rock Pile in SC, a miles long stretch on the ICW of treacherous, narrow water and I appreciate it when it is used by someone coming the other way. Will I be meeting a 50' sport fish or a big tow? There are very few places to pull out of the channel to let someone by. Hearing Securite, Securite, on the VHF cuts through constant chatter and makes one listen up.
__________________

__________________
-------------------------
Terry
Meridian
KK-42097
meridian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 05:40 AM   #3
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,700
Never used it yet. Heard a couple of pan pan or mayday relay from cg but never had to use it and hopefully I will never have to! Crossing finger that I will never face a situation that will force my to use it.
About securite I would certa7nly use it before heading into some long narrows in waterways to be sure I won't be stuck face to face with a big cruiser.
Lou_tribal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 05:54 AM   #4
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,320
It's just a "safety" call....

Plus it isn't really for use to warn "someone"...it's a blind broadcast generally to let unknowns in the areas of a potential hazard to navigation. Essentially an "all ships" call. If you see a particular vessel that you need to advise them of something, a security call would generally not be the tool to use.

Plenty of instances to use one though.....it could be used if you anchored in a narrow channel due to malfunction or assisting someone, or piece of floating dock in the channel (could have been many calls along the ICW recently after Matthew), the local bridge is broken and the USCG isn't broadcasting so someone else could make the call.......heck some larger boats use it just cruising the ICW behind Myrtle Beach's imfamous "rockpile".

Look at it this way,.....if it might have helped in a situation, even if ever so remote, and you didnt, guess who is going to get that pointed out to them in any inquiry? Especially with a USCG license.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 06:11 AM   #5
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,085
All of them are broadcast announcements, and as such rarely needed by an individual boat, let along a recreational boat. Security is the lone exception, I think, for situations like the Rock Pile or other defacto single-lane sections of water. And of course larger boats use Security regularly to announce their maneuvering intentions. I've used it a few times, but only a few. If I encountered a nasty hazard in a confined waterway, I might issue a security call to alert people in the immediate area. But I'd then call the CG and let them take over the job.

And of course a single boat would use Mayday - I think everyone understands when that's called for.

I've only heard Pan Pan issued by the coast guard to alert people of a disabled vessel or someone in need of assistance. It's distinction from Mayday is that nobody is in danger, at least not at the moment. It could escalate, but currently there is none.

As to the tanker out of its shipping lanes, I tend to agree that a security call would have been inappropriate. The photos show it was a clear day with excellent visibility, so no hidden or surprise danger. I also don't know the area well enough to know whether being out of the lanes was allowed or disallowed, nor why the CG boarded them. I think in that situation, if I felt the tanker was clearly breaking a rule and posing a danger, as the OP did, I'd either call them and suggest they reconsider their route, or call the CG and let them deal with it. Probably the later.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 06:31 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Jetstream's Avatar
 
City: Tasmania
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Old Town Loon
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
It's just a "safety" call....

Plus it isn't really for use to warn "someone"...it's a blind broadcast generally to let unknowns in the areas of a potential hazard to navigation. Essentially an "all ships" call. If you see a particular vessel that you need to advise them of something, a security call would generally not be the tool to use.

Plenty of instances to use one though.....it could be used if you anchored in a narrow channel due to malfunction or assisting someone, or piece of floating dock in the channel (could have been many calls along the ICW recently after Matthew), the local bridge is broken and the USCG isn't broadcasting so someone else could make the call.......heck some larger boats use it just cruising the ICW behind Myrtle Beach's imfamous "rockpile".

Look at it this way,.....if it might have helped in a situation, even if ever so remote, and you didnt, guess who is going to get that pointed out to them in any inquiry? Especially with a USCG license.
This is exactly the way I have alway understood a Sécurité call should be used. I have used it at times when we have come across hazards to navigation like abandon boats or ship, submerged or partly submerged shipping containers or evan floating logs in commonly used channels.

It quite common to hear volunteer Coast Gaurd or Marine Rescue use it here for navigation hazards,

Brett
Jetstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 07:51 AM   #7
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post

Plenty of instances to use one though.....it could be used if you anchored in a narrow channel due to malfunction or assisting someone, or piece of floating dock in the channel (could have been many calls along the ICW recently after Matthew), the local bridge is broken and the USCG isn't broadcasting so someone else could make the call.......heck some larger boats use it just cruising the ICW behind Myrtle Beach's imfamous "rockpile".

Look at it this way,.....if it might have helped in a situation, even if ever so remote, and you didnt, guess who is going to get that pointed out to them in any inquiry? Especially with a USCG license.
I agree with all you say, just haven't come across those instances. Perhaps if we did the majority of our traveling in the ICW would more often. I could see where it would have been used frequently right after the hurricane. The circumstances you describe such as broken bridge or floating dock in channel are those I think of as using it. I think of it in circumstances where you want to alert multiple boats that might be transiting an area. When notifying a single boat of an approaching boat, I think more of just calling that specific boat.

Running offshore, I would think one would use it when encountering a floating container but haven't yet run across one.

I was just curious about the frequency others use it or observe it being used. How many times would you estimate you've used it in the past three years, when boating recreationally?
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 08:28 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Blissboat's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville Beach, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Shallow Minded
Vessel Model: Shoal Cat
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 405
BandB wrote, "How many times would you estimate you've used it [Sécurité]in the past three years, when boating recreationally?

While boating recreationally, just once, in a narrow stretch of the ICW to alert boaters of a small herd of manatees traveling purposefully right in mid-channel. But even as I picked up the mike I sensed the futility of the gesture. Those most in need of the info - small recreational motor boats - were / are the least likely to have a VHF turned on and monitoring 16 and 13. Or for that matter to comprehend the meaning a "Sécurité" announcement. (I also hesitated to draw attention to the beasts, for fear of attracting more boats to the vicinity out of curiosity).

When boating professionally I've only used it on the low-power channel 13, to clarify entering or crossing scenarios with nearby concerned traffic.
Blissboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 08:45 AM   #9
Guru
 
TDunn's Avatar
 
City: Maine Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Tortuga
Vessel Model: Nunes Brothers Raised Deck Cruiser
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 653
The last time I heard a Securite' call it was a Tow boat towing someone. Every couple of minutes they announced their position, speed, what they were towing and their destination. I think they were doing it as much for advertising as anything else since they are new to the area.

I have given a Securite' call once when we got fouled on lobster gear in a channel (not me at the helm and not my boat). I also cancelled it when we got free.
TDunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 08:49 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
City: Owings, Md
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 224
It is frequently appropriate in my area after a large rain event, we have partially submerged trees and pilings working their way downstream and they invariably end up drifting to high traffic areas. It seems the myriad of channel confluences create subtle but large eddies that retain debris large and small. Sometimes the notification comes in the form of Securite from USCG or another mariner, but more often than not it is announced less officially on channel 68,69, 71 or 72 by a fisherman as "Hey guys, I just passed a log east of 83A, I lost two rigs but at least I didn't hit it running".
Gdavid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 08:59 AM   #11
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,320
Probably 10 times in 3 years...


4 or 5 for vessels operating in a dangerous manner either wakes or close passes(repeatedly... not usually for an encounter with just me) and I know they will pass others within my radio reach.


3 or 4 times for other vessel to avoid waking salvage operations or other pleasure boaters grounded/assisting grounded vessels.


once or twice when operating in heavy fog and entering a confined area whether narrow channel or basin.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 09:14 AM   #12
Guru
 
cappy208's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slip Aweigh
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by meridian View Post
Hearing Securite, Securite, on the VHF cuts through constant chatter and makes one listen up.
Excellent simple explanation!
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 09:21 AM   #13
Guru
 
cappy208's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slip Aweigh
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,122
@BandB:

It is similar to having a 'wake up' alarm on your bedside table. Those words are a big "Hello: this may (or may not) pertain to you listening within earshot, but it MAY be of interest." That's the function of a sécurité prefix in your call. IMHO securite calls should only be given on one watt (low power) because they only pertain to specific area, and location/event. There is no need for people 15 miles away to need to hear your securite event.

I routinely give Sécurité calls at work. There are places in almost every location that have blind corners, sharp bends, mountains etc etc etc. which make a verbal security call necessary. If you are on a vessel that takes a half mile to stop it is nice to use.

But haven't found the need to use it on the trawler. I am small enough to just pull it out of gear and wait for what/who/where ever the issue is to clear up before proceeding. I figure I have about a 100' range of decision making/time to avoid collision. By that time a security warning is too little, too late.

This post makes me think I have to do a 'crash stop' to see just what distance my boat stops within under normal running speed to dead in the water. I haven't actually done that one.

On the big boat it takes me around .51 nm to stop from full ahead making 9.4 knots with loaded barge to diw. That is provided I can use both engines astern full. If I have to use one or the other to help stay headed where it's safe it take longer.

This should be a good takeaway from this conversation: Knowing YOUR stopping distance is one thing. The unknown is 'the other boats stopping distance'.

You may be meeting someone else who has already gone past their stopping distance in a collision scenario, then it's all up to you to avoid collision. Few people realize that both boats are different, handle differently. And you can't make assumptions the other boat can even get out of your way (assuming they don't pull a 'Boneheaded' move)
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 09:21 AM   #14
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Use it all the time on the New River here in Ft. Lauderdale.

Other than that, maybe one or twice a year.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 09:38 AM   #15
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,600
Hear them all on a regular basis in BC waters. Not uncommon or unusual at all.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 09:48 AM   #16
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Use it all the time on the New River here in Ft. Lauderdale.

Other than that, maybe one or twice a year.
New River, I definitely understand. We only take a smaller boat up the New River and no further than the downtown area normally. Going all the way to LMC and beyond is definitely challenging.

As to Cappy's use, fully expect commercial boats to use a lot and many probably should more than they do.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 12:50 PM   #17
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,084
Almost never.
Like Cappy says

"But haven't found the need to use it on the trawler. I am small enough to just pull it out of gear and wait for what/who/where ever the issue is to clear up before proceeding. I figure I have about a 100' range of decision making/time to avoid collision. By that time a security warning is too little, too late.

This post makes me think I have to do a 'crash stop' to see just what distance my boat stops within under normal running speed to dead in the water. I haven't actually done that one."

There are few, if any places where the visibility is that restricted in the waters where I travel. In fact, I find the frequency of pleasure boats of less than 100' using the Securite call to be quite high, especially at Dodd Narrows. I don't know how that particular spot got singled out for frequent useless calling, but it started and doesn't look like anything will stop it.

I use the "Pan Pan" call frequently, just not on the radio. That is our little dog's name: Big trouble, but not life threatening.
__________________
Keith
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 01:49 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Larry H's Avatar
 
City: Pacific Northwest
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Jacari Maru
Vessel Model: 2014 Ranger Tug R-27
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 359
I have used the Securite call several times in BC, Canada waters. There are several narrow, sometimes blind current passes where you cannot see oncoming traffic. Typical warning, 'Securite, Securite, Securite, 40 foot power boat eastbound thru Jackson Narrows, any opposing traffic respond on ch 16' I emphasize the words 'eastbound' and 'Jackson Narrows'. The Securite call is regularly used by the BC ferries when entering current passes like Active Pass in the Gulf Islands. It is also used by tugs pulling log tows entering Dodd Narrows in the Gulf Islands.
__________________
Larry H
Cruising the Pacific Northwest
Larry H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 02:07 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
drb1025's Avatar
 
City: Bellevue, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Fiddler
Vessel Model: DeFever 46
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by koliver View Post



There are few, if any places where the visibility is that restricted in the waters where I travel. In fact, I find the frequency of pleasure boats of less than 100' using the Securite call to be quite high, especially at Dodd Narrows. I don't know how that particular spot got singled out for frequent useless calling, but it started and doesn't look like anything will stop it.

The Waggoner Cruising Guide recommends pleasure boaters use Securite at Dodd Narrows. I am glad the log tows use it there.
drb1025 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 02:54 PM   #20
Guru
 
Carolena's Avatar
 
City: DC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carolena II
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 32/34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 605
We've used Securite once in the past four years with our current boat. It was to notify other boaters in the area of a small bowrider that appeared to be disabled being towed across a busy channel by a jet ski. We had already seen two close calls by passing boats in front of us, and really bad wakes. We were pretty much certian that neither the boat being towed nor the jet ski had radios. Not sure if anyone actually slowed down as a result, but at lest we felt that we had done what we could to help the situation.
__________________

Carolena is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012