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Old 06-16-2015, 04:54 PM   #1
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Quick release shackle for anchor swap?

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Old 06-16-2015, 04:59 PM   #2
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Quick release shackle for anchor swap?

I have a heavy Rochna as my primary anchor mounted in my bow chock. It's great for over night anchorages and emergencies, but it's a bear of an anchor to haul up. I would like to be able to easily swap it out for a light weight lunch hook without having to wrestle apart a shackle and seizing wire. Any ideas on a quick release shackle that could be used at the end of the anchor rode so I could easily swap out anchors?

I was considering something like this, but I can't determine if the working load would create a weak link in my chain:

Amazon.com : Ronstan Snap Shackle - Small Swivel Bail - 69mm(2-3/4") Length : Sailing Shackles : Sports & Outdoors

I'm using 1/4" HT chain with a Rochna 10.
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Old 06-16-2015, 05:05 PM   #3
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Somehow "quick release" and anchor don't belong together in my book.

What you show there is almost guaranteed to release under water at some point working around on the bottom.

I do have two working rodes however so a regular shackle on each and a quick twist with safety wire and I can have a different anchor changed fairly fast.

One could always bend on an anchor quickly to an eyelet.

You may consider 5 ft of chain and a hundred feet of line for your meal eating anchor always attached and be done with it.

I don't use an inferior anchor regardless of the meal I'm eating.
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Old 06-16-2015, 07:10 PM   #4
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Yeah, sorry P&D but that's not anchoring material. You already use a shackle with safety wire so know the reason for doing so. I have two anchors on the bow and two rodes.
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Old 06-16-2015, 07:36 PM   #5
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Ronstan products are Aussie made, high quality,usually have a load rating, but no, please don`t do that.
I use a small version of that snap shackle as part of my dinghy tow rig bridle, totally reliable, never opened of its own accord, but I seem to recall putting even a short line on the ring pull was not a good idea.
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Old 06-16-2015, 09:52 PM   #6
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Most all the time I carry my anchors on the foredeck and shackle them to my working rode (mostly nylon) every time I anchor. I may leave one on the bow roller in the near future but haven't yet. So I rig shackles and an anchor every time I anchor. You think that's too much work?

The idea of having a high performance anchor is that it will be smaller and lighter. The Rocna is a high performance anchor. You don't mention your anchor size. I use mostly anchors weighing less than 20lbs for our 8 ton 30'boat. Worked fine in up to 50knots of wind. Perhaps you need a smaller anchor and if you feel the Rocna isn't up to it I can recomend two other anchors (PM only) three including the aluminum Fortress.

I thought of a quick release coupler to substitute for the shackle too but never found one I'd be totally comfortable with. Looks like you have too or you probably wouldn't have posted this thread.

You don't mention how much (size and length) chain your having to lift along w the anchor. Some anchors are known to require less chain and I've even been told some don't require any. They may be heavier than your chain but anchors do vary in their need for chain. An example is the Kedge anchor. I doubt you'll be using a Kedge though.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:26 PM   #7
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Hi Puke, Wichard makes a stainless steel self locking anchor shackle. You don't need to safety wire it but you do need a tool to release it. There are a lot of reasons not to leave stainless underwater for long periods of time, but it doesn't seem to be a problem for temporary submersions such as anchoring.


Your boat is about the same size as mine. I use 1/4" stainless chain and 1/2" nylon rope as the rode. The stainless chain and shackle are not as strong as your 1/4" high tensile chain, but for our size boats, it doesn't need to be.


Here is a link to the Wichard shackles: Bow Shackles - Self Locking Pin Sha - Shackles


Now with all that said, do yourself a favor, buy a windlass that you can control from the helm and don't bother changing anchors. For our size boats you would only need to spend about half a boat buck to get a good one.


I just replaced my 20+ year old Simpson Lawrence Horizon 500 with a Lewmar Pro-Sport 550. http://www.lewmar.com/products.asp?i...=110&channel=1
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukeanddie View Post

I was considering something like this, but I can't determine if the working load would create a weak link in my chain
RF6110 | Ronstan Sailboat Hardware US

850kg MWL. Sounds like a weak link to me.
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Old 06-17-2015, 12:22 AM   #9
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I sure hope you don't put your and your family's safety hanging from this hook.



There are many safe and proven alternatives. There's no need to experiment with something like this on a piece of equipment as important as your ground tackle.
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Old 06-17-2015, 01:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
I sure hope you don't put your and your family's safety hanging from this hook.

There are many safe and proven alternatives. There's no need to experiment with something like this on a piece of equipment as important as your ground tackle.
+1

From a site devoted to shackles:

"A snap shackle is designed with a spring-activated mechanism so it can be used quickly and with one hand. These are excellent for jobs where speed is important, or when it needs to be repeated connected/disconnected. Because they generally have lower working load limits than comparable bolt type or pin type shackles, snap shackles are not recommended for heavy-duty applications."

IMO, just too many moving parts and too easy to foul compared to a proper anchor or bow shackle. Some Winchard shackles are self-locking which would at least eliminate the need to deal with safety wire.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Now with all that said, do yourself a favor, buy a windlass that you can control from the helm and don't bother changing anchors. For our size boats you would only need to spend about half a boat buck to get a good one.
I just replaced my 20+ year old Simpson Lawrence Horizon 500 with a Lewmar Pro-Sport 550. http://www.lewmar.com/products.asp?i...=110&channel=1
Puke, what weight is a Rocna 10? From your boat length I'd guess that is about 10kg = 22.5 lbs..? Is that correct. If so it's a good anchor, and I'd certainly advise to just keep it as your primary and try and do what Hopcar suggested. Trying to swap anchors around for a different lighter lunch hook is just to much of a PITA, in my view also, and you'd find anchoring out so much more of a joy.
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Old 06-17-2015, 06:26 AM   #12
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Have used a couple of these snaps for years. On tethers attached to jacklines and on a line which goes down to the waterline which releases the swim ladder. High quality yes, reliable yes. Anchor material I wouldn't trust it. The best you could do would be to use a single wrap of seizing wire and then cut it off each time you swap anchors. I have done something like that with cable ties, but never for anything as important as my anchor shackle.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:43 AM   #13
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There are many ways and views on anchoring...

Many feel the concept of a lunch hook foreign....with a windlass now...I don't care how big my lunch hook is till the windlass quits....

But lunch hook mentality has been around awhile and isn't going away....sooooo...

Personally I would just have a whole separate setup, anchor and rode.

But if I was going to go back and forth...I may use something like the attached picture. I would oversize it to the maximum possible, and inspect the threads regularly, and never use t for more than a single overnight and in conditions well less than its rated load...no chance of thunderstorm activity.


I feel unscrewing is less likely that some tripping action on snaps....Pelican hooks would probably be safe enough...but down in the mud and sand I would think would make them harder to operate. Then again the same may affect the screw close link too.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukeanddie View Post
I have a heavy Rochna as my primary anchor mounted in my bow chock. It's great for over night anchorages and emergencies, but it's a bear of an anchor to haul up.
.............
I'm using 1/4" HT chain with a Rochna 10.
Don't tell my wife that. We have the same setup and NO windlass. She's been hauling that setup by hand by herself for years. Technically, we switched from a Rocna (22.05lb) to a Manson Supreme (25lb) a few years ago.

If she finds out its too heavy, she's gonna make me buy a windlass. Or worse, she's going to make me start hauling it up instead.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:39 PM   #15
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Some sailboats used the connector shackle depicted in post 13 to attach the headsail sheets to the headsail. I found that even on a 26ft sailboat with 7/8 rig, the fitting became distorted as a result of loading. That, plus reliance on 3 or 4 threads to maintain the connection, and the dangers of a heavy lump of s.steel flailing about during forward hand duties, persuaded me to replace it with bowlines instead. Personal choice, but I would not have one in my rode.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:24 PM   #16
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Screw locking links are used in lots of applications and properly sized and secured they work fine...often used on trailer chains in my experience.


I wouldn't use them on sail sheets either but in hauling, hoisting and salvage have used them a lot.


Screw-links / Rapides

Screw-links are great for rigging because they are very strong and not prone to failure due to incorrect loading, particularly where their orientation can be controlled so the sleeve is not loaded. Screw-links don't unscrew readily and can be secured with a spanner or thread adhesive. As well, they are good value for money.


Screw-links from Maillon Rapide | Connectors & Karabiners


just one of dozens of manufactures or sellers describing their use in rigging, climbing, rescue work...etc...etc...


I wouldn't hesitate using one for temporary work as long as a properly sized or oversized one would fit my rode.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew View Post
Don't tell my wife that. We have the same setup and NO windlass. She's been hauling that setup by hand by herself for years. Technically, we switched from a Rocna (22.05lb) to a Manson Supreme (25lb) a few years ago.

If she finds out its too heavy, she's gonna make me buy a windlass. Or worse, she's going to make me start hauling it up instead.
Without a video, we don't believe you, Shrew!!
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Old 06-20-2015, 06:22 AM   #18
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It is far easier to simply carry the small anchor in a bag with a proper sized line attached.

The anchor weight and line weight create a system , which is needed for proper holding.

A 12lb anchor with a 5/8 or 3/4 line will not set or stay set very well as there is no stretch in the line to ease shock loads .
You should have a stern anchor ready to set , at all times.

Just carry it fwd for fast deployment as needed.

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Old 06-20-2015, 10:03 AM   #19
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FF,
This is a good question IMO. Not in yours I know for many years you've promoted the virtues of stretch (or is it elasticity?) in anchor rodes. Once the anchor is set I agree w you. But a moment ago I was going to jump in and say "well then how do the "all chain" rodes set an anchor at all w zero stretch""? But of course the answer is catenary. So then I thought "well then FF may be on to something". They say the best way to set an anchor is slowly and probably w repeated and very light little pulls in a kind of cyclic manner. Like boat movement?

I agree. But this may only apply in questionable bottoms where setting is an iffy thing and any helpful performance "trick" may make the difference between success and failure re the setting and later the holding. Having the right anchor, the right trick or technique and (most importantly) the right bottom may be necessary for success.

However, under normal circumstances (most of the time) I don't think having a 1/2" line or a 3/4" line will make any difference at all. I anchor very close to the example you posted that, in your opinion should'nt work. Well with the exception of one anchor I've not had any trouble at all setting anchors or holding in strong winds. And that exception was the anchors fault I'm sure. You wrote; "The anchor weight and line weight create a system , which is needed for proper holding." I do think you have a point that we should all remember and apply to a difficult situation to see if just possibly ... it may fit. But for normal anchoring a good bottom probably masks most anchoring techniques and saves the sloppy skipper. But for setting that is so challenging it will probably fail or holding in a blow that is so challenging you are about to break out a good properly sized rode of nylon will probably save the day. As for all chain the snubbers I hear about are IMO far too short to be effective in regard to stretch.
So FF I do think you're right. But most of the time I think it dosn't seem to make any difference. I use 5/8ths nylon line always and small anchors most of the time and basically have no trouble at all except hauling up a big black and stinky pile of mud w no washdown system to apply to it.
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:49 PM   #20
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A fat line and watch fob anchor seem to work as most times the weight of the line also has catenary, and its reasistance to lifting as it gets pulled tight saves the day.

In any bottom the surface area of the anchor does most of the holding , although a CQR digging for denser bottom is another method.

An anchor will only hold a max amount , and the real question is how do we stay below that amount.

The hassle is gusty winds , not just high winds.

A good stable boat will surge back a bit in a heavy gust , but many boats for some reason are like wild horses and dodge about side to side.

The line ot chain gets lifted out of the water as the bow is yanked 90 deg to slide off on the other tack. Thats a shock load and must be avoided!

These are the ones NOT to anchor behind as the loading on either end of the dodge is truly high.

For waiting out a bridge opening a tiny 12 lb with about 125-150 ft of 3/8 line is all that is needed.

I remember a day where we were on a city float and a sail boat came in the harbor , a bit too close to a spit.

He ran the engine screaming to get off as his only other choice was to lower a dink, wrassle a 45lb with chain !!! into the dink and set it astern.

With our dink in the water I rowed out the trusty Danforth 12H astern and handed him the end to take to this cockpit winch.

With a 2 speed winch , pulling directly aft he was off in no time.

With an inner tube he could have done the same , although he would have gotten wet.

The attempt to lower a dink and pull the bow across the spit might or might not have been a fun afternoon display of sailor words.

My point is far more than only one anchor is required for cruising,so installing the watch fob on a heavy cable is hardly worth thinking about.
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