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Old 06-22-2016, 04:12 PM   #21
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Thanks guys. You have confirmed my initial thoughts. I have just been in the habit of throttling up to set that it seemed a bit odd to not do that now, but it wasn't until yesterday that the difference in hp dawned on my simple brain.

Eric, your point about soaking is a good one. Just the wave action, current and wind should tend to set the anchor deeper over time. However, how cool would it be if Steve could show us if that really happens or not!
Well all he could show you is if it happens on the occasion he videos. Experience tells me it definitely happens, particularly on bottoms that are on the soft side. You can dive it and see it deeper every day.
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Old 06-22-2016, 04:23 PM   #22
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Anchoring is something I don't see as a "canned" ritual. Many variables...especially weather and tides in addition to bottom.


Probably why some people tend to call anchoring as much art as science.


What I might do for an well protected, anchorage in muddy sand, no tidal reversal and fair weather might be different than an exposed anchorage, with heavy weather on its way.


Most of the time my anchoring is a bit of a ritual, as my limitations to anchor make it relatively easy....but there are enough variations that each time is an evaluation followed by steps to make each component work as predicted....and it may include a severe backing set if necessary to see if the anchor really is well set.
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Old 06-22-2016, 04:27 PM   #23
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There are a number of users of our anchor who swear by the process of:
1. Once the anchor is set (using the method I suggested earlier) to "stress the set" by throttling up then "relaxing the tension."
2. The theory is that the slight throttle up pulls on the flukes of the set anchor digging deeper.
3. Then relaxing the tension actually allows the anchor to settle deeper.
4. They repeat that a few times.

Of course there is no video evidence of this because all the action is below the seabed. Sounds like a good process however.

Regarding the throttle speed, it has been my experience of folks who use our anchor to often recommend a stronger throttle action with sailboats than what they normally use. For big powerboats, I recommend some experimenting to see what is too much throttle. Generally, patience and deliberate actions work best.
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Old 06-22-2016, 07:31 PM   #24
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Steve Bedford pretty much nails our procedure in #23 above, especially the repeated test loadings.
Applying a load serves 2 purposes:1) It tests if the anchor is really set at all and 2) improves the set by driving the anchor in.
Re the Sarca, note Steve`s tests showed Sarcas well set and resetting on reversal well under 5:1.
We usually back down at idle while paying out, and test/load the set at 1000rpm,on Lehman 120s. If its nicely set, I sense a kind of slight "stall" effect on the engines, when they take the load, and strain, but boat stays put.
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Old 06-22-2016, 08:44 PM   #25
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Dave, you've just purchased the best there is out there. You won't have to set that sucker...it'll set itself, but back down on it at 5:1 very gently by all means if it will make you feel better before hitting the sack.
Could not agree more! Especially feeling good before you hit the sack!
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Old 06-22-2016, 08:58 PM   #26
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Could not agree more! Especially feeling good before you hit the sack!
Well, if I've been a good boy, I get to feel good after I hit the sack as well.
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Old 06-22-2016, 09:21 PM   #27
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Hi Dave

It's not really rocket science. Just have good brand/design anchor sizable enough for your boat (for safety/security reasons, I recommend one size larger than that which is recommended) then gently drop anchor while letting out a good amount of scope (4 to 1 is fine for setting purposes) and back down in idle speed. Once boat has stopped moving backwards the anchor has grabbed into the bottom. Then, to be sure the set is good, I juice my engine (to 1500 +/-) rpm a couple times for a couple seconds each in reverse and then shut her down. Depending on room to other boats and items in area I may or may not let out additional scope. 5 to 1 is my most liked in relatively calm weather. 6 to 1 or even a bit more in stormy conditions.

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Old 06-23-2016, 07:37 AM   #28
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"
Different strokes. Consult the anchor manufacturer's guidelines for setting technique (recommended rode length while setting), 'cause they vary.

-Chris"

Good advice Chris. There are some manufacturer recommendations for setting a particular anchor and it is best to at least know that.
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Heh... Thought about you the other day, Steve, when we were anchoring nearby with the MAX17 that we switched to last year. The sucker grabbed while deployment we still in progress, still had less than 2:1 scope out, jerked the boat to a stop, kinda caught me by surprise!

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Old 06-23-2016, 07:56 AM   #29
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Heh... Thought about you the other day, Steve, when we were anchoring nearby with the MAX17 that we switched to last year. The sucker grabbed while deployment we still in progress, still had less than 2:1 scope out, jerked the boat to a stop, kinda caught me by surprise!

-Chris
So, Chris... Was it hard to get the anchor untangled from the old cable it snagged on the bottom??

Just kidding - I'll Google MAX17, seeking info on it.
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Old 06-23-2016, 08:07 AM   #30
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Chris,
Thanks for the report. I have a lot of findings that the Super MAX grabs before the operator actually proceeds with the "setting process." Documented on the company website.

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Old 06-23-2016, 08:34 AM   #31
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Impressive. I visited and reviewed website.


Super Max 16, 47 lb. handling weight is the only factor I see as potential bother... due to fact that that I hand deploy and retrieve rode and anchor (with some assistance from drum type windless). Being a life long heavy-weight lifter, understanding body stress points, that much anchor weight would place a pretty heavy stress on back bones and muscles while bent over bow rail with mud in its fluke during haul. Also, dunking time and again to release mud off fluke would be a task even for a weight lifter such as me. Of course, if you had completely automated windless rode/anchor retrieval with pressure wash-down hose on bow... then weight is not a big factor.


Hoping to hear more reports/posts from first hand users on TF of Max Anchors.


http://maxmarineproducts.com/
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Old 06-23-2016, 08:35 AM   #32
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Glad to see you have revived this great product Steve. I know several veteran cruisers who switched to them and never met an unhappy one. We used one several times in a friend's Hatteras 42 LRC while cruising the Maritime provinces 10 years ago.
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Old 06-23-2016, 08:57 AM   #33
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So, Chris... Was it hard to get the anchor untangled from the old cable it snagged on the bottom??

Just kidding - I'll Google MAX17, seeking info on it.

Heh... that's what it felt like! No cable in the area, though...


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Impressive. I visited and reviewed website.

Super Max 16, 47 lb. handling weight is the only factor I see as potential bother... due to fact that that I hand deploy and retrieve rode and anchor (with some assistance from drum type windless). Being a life long heavy-weight lifter, understanding body stress points, that much anchor weight would place a pretty heavy stress on back bones and muscles while bent over bow rail with mud in its fluke during haul. Also, dunking time and again to release mud off fluke would be a task even for a weight lifter such as me. Of course, if you had completely automated windless rode/anchor retrieval with pressure wash-down hose on bow... then weight is not a big factor.

I don't see a 16 @ 47-lbs lbs on their current website, Art. Pivoting, like ours, @ 42-lbs, and rigid @ 45-lbs.

??

Ours is now the pivoting 17 @ 45-lbs. We had a MAX16 previously, brought over from our earlier boat, smaller than recommended for our current boat, and that always worked fine... but it never did jerk my off my feet.

Anyway, your point about hand-lifting speaks to issues I'd have, too, if we were without an electric windlass. The MAX17, and the leading chain on the rode, is about the heaviest I'd want to try to dead lift... and I wouldn't want to do that often. (Hence the fair-sized Fortress we carry, and used as our primary until I got the windlass installed to handle the MAX.)

And around here, dunking doesn't work all that great, certainly not our lifetime.... so we use a raw water washdown system.

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Old 06-23-2016, 09:05 AM   #34
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Thank you. Sometimes being a small business has its challenges!

Regarding Art's concerns about weight. Fortunately Super MAX is not the only anchor that is heavy. Unfortunately I can not solve that issue. Course you could invite me to cruise with you and I could be your "designated anchor slinger!"

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Old 06-23-2016, 09:12 AM   #35
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Heh... that's what it felt like! No cable in the area, though...





I don't see a 16 @ 47-lbs lbs on their current website, Art. Pivoting, like ours, @ 42-lbs, and rigid @ 45-lbs.

??

Ours is now the pivoting 17 @ 45-lbs. We had a MAX16 previously, brought over from our earlier boat, smaller than recommended for our current boat, and that always worked fine... but it never did jerk my off my feet.

Anyway, your point about hand-lifting speaks to issues I'd have, too, if we were without an electric windlass. The MAX17, and the leading chain on the rode, is about the heaviest I'd want to try to dead lift... and I wouldn't want to do that often. (Hence the fair-sized Fortress we carry, and used as our primary until I got the windlass installed to handle the MAX.)

And around here, dunking doesn't work all that great, certainly not our lifetime.... so we use a raw water washdown system.

-Chris
Chris - on Max website link that is listed in my post # 31, a few up... Punch Anchor tab and then Pricing. Max 16 is listed. Max 17 you mention is of course even heaver. I too use Fortress due to its light weight. Ours is a Fortress 23. Some day I may outfit our Tolly with updated windless retrieval system and wash down hose on bow. But - not currently in my plans.
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Old 06-23-2016, 09:35 AM   #36
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Thank you. Sometimes being a small business has its challenges!

Regarding Art's concerns about weight. Fortunately Super MAX is not the only anchor that is heavy. Unfortunately I can not solve that issue. Course you could invite me to cruise with you and I could be your "designated anchor slinger!"

Steve Bedford
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OK, Steve... You're on! Contact me when in SF region. Do remember to bring a Max 16 along for the cruise! I am intrigued with the design of your Max anchor and look forward to learning more from those on TF that have experiences using it.
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:41 AM   #37
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Chris - on Max website link that is listed in my post # 31, a few up... Punch Anchor tab and then Pricing. Max 16 is listed. Max 17 you mention is of course even heaver. I too use Fortress due to its light weight. Ours is a Fortress 23. Some day I may outfit our Tolly with updated windless retrieval system and wash down hose on bow. But - not currently in my plans.

Hmmm... hadn't looked at that; I was looking at the Specifications page.

Steve: note mis-match between weights on Pricing and Specification pages.

Art, FWIW ours is an FX-37, still -- relatively easily -- liftable.

-Chris
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:26 PM   #38
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Thanks Chris. We changed some steel specs and that changed the weights slightly. We adjusted the specification page but not the pricing page. Done now. Thanks.
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:32 PM   #39
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WE summer on the Chesapeake and winter in FL. On the Bay we almost never see anyone back down on the anchor. Along the ICW, most cruisers do seem to back down. WE have a 38 foot trawler with a 44# Manson and all chain rode. We let out the required scope (<5:1 if possible) Attach the snubber and then back to 900 or 1000 rpm Our 230 Cummins is probably putting out about 100 hp at that rpm. Just this afternoon (Little Bay VA, 20 miles from Steve Bedford) we watched a 49 foot hunter and a 48 foot Bertram come into this cove and drop the hook. The crews went ashore. Neither had marked their rodes and and neither had more than about 2:1 and neither backed down to set the anchor. Both boats drifted away in winds of less than 10 kt. As others have said, scope is your friend.
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Old 06-26-2016, 06:24 PM   #40
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"Scope is our your friend"
Of course but you don't need as much scope if you've got an anchor that does considerably better at short scopes. There are times due to geography like small anchorage and deep water or too many other boats in a big anchorage. About the only thing I agree w Peter Smith (the Rocna guy) on is that in small or deep places setting hard at 4 or so to 1 and then shorting up as needed. Even 2-1 if the weather is calm.

tadhanna,
Your Manson is a Supreme I suppose and if so they have demonstrated excellent short scope performance many times in anchor tests even here on our own forum. See the anchor video thread if you have'nt.
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