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Old 09-11-2011, 07:23 PM   #1
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Transfer switch questions for inverter

Installing a MS 3000 Xantrex inverter on my boat. ( I know friends don't let friends buy Xantrex but I've had this unit new in the box for a couple of years).

Currently have* single phase 30 amp panel in the boat and a 2700 watt Mase genset. Also a Kohler manual transfer switch for Generator and Shore Power.

The MS 3000 can be supplied from a split-phase or dual input AC source.

"The MS 3000 is designed to be connected to AC sources that energize both the L! and L2 inputs, and cannot be powered by single phase input where only one of* L1 or L2 is energized. To connect the MS 3000 to a single-phase AC supply , install an appropriate transfer switch to energize both L1 and L2 inputs. Consult a qualified installer for further support"

"Dual input: This source type has two line inputs, one neutral, and one ground. Unlike the split-phase type, the two lines are in phase (not out of phase), and must come from one source. The voltage between the two lines is zero. The voltage between each line and the neutral is 120 VAC, and the voltage between the neutral and ground is approximately zero. Because the two lines are in phase, the currents from each add together in the neutral. For example, if Line 1 is 20A and Line2 is 15A, the current in the neutral is 35A.

I'd like to keep the 30 amp service so my question is in regards to a proper transfer switch to provide the dual input.

Thanks Chip
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Old 09-11-2011, 07:49 PM   #2
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RE: Transfer switch questions for inverter

On my last boat I used a Blue Seas 3-way AC selector switch for GEN/Shore/Invert. It worked great and was bulletproof.
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Old 09-11-2011, 08:03 PM   #3
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RE: Transfer switch questions for inverter

Here is what we did...

http://trawler-beach-house.blogspot....-inverter.html

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Old 09-12-2011, 03:46 AM   #4
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RE: Transfer switch questions for inverter

KISS , usually the inverter is NOT set up to power the entire boat ( no electric HW ) just a few selected items.

Since transfer switches will fry if the dock gets a side strike (we are in FL) the use of a plug (the boat) and sockets (the supply) is the easiest to live with IF its all in a reasonable location.

IF its as easy to get to as a switch , its a no brainer to move a plug.

Repairs cruising can be done from on board spares or at the local hardware store.
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:23 AM   #5
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RE: Transfer switch questions for inverter

The inverter cannot possibly power the entire boat. I have no generator so that makes things simpler, but I installed my inverter to power only the 120 volt receptacles (only one circuit on my boat). That made the issue of the transfer switch (built into the inverter) simple. It just switches that one circuit.
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:28 AM   #6
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RE: Transfer switch questions for inverter

Thanks guys for your input.
With all the boat projects going on, it had been awhile since I visited with the MS3000 manuals. I sat down last night after my post and did just that.
It turns out that the AC power from the Shore Power or Genset is fed to the inverter which has a 'pass through' function and feeds the panel. Automatic transfer switching between inverter AC and external AC source takes place in the inverter.
I can keep the existing Kohler rotary transfer switch (Electroswitch Corp) to switch between Gen/Off/SP to feed the inverter. It also has terminal block on the output to split the hot into two feeds (110 in-phase) for the inverter requirements.
While the MS3000 inverter/charger is complex this simplifies my installation......I hope.
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:22 AM   #7
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RE: Transfer switch questions for inverter

Pass thru is good , some have a boost feature.

Our old Trace can be set to draw a set amount from a dock 13A works well from house style circuits.

When an air cond starts , the Trace boosts the amperage for 1/2 second or so .

With big enough battery bank you can run Air and do the laundry , the bank is recharged at night.

These inverters are the best system to install a rational sized noisemaker , that will run most common loads.

Nice when a 4 or 6 KW is all that is usually required , and a 20KW for "everything" does not need to be purchased , fed and maintained .
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:39 PM   #8
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RE: Transfer switch questions for inverter

Quote:
FF wrote:
Pass thru is good , some have a boost feature.

Our old Trace can be set to draw a set amount from a dock 13A works well from house style circuits.

When an air cond starts , the Trace boosts the amperage for 1/2 second or so .

*Fred, what is the difference between this and an inverter that tolerates momentary overloads for compressr start ups?
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:44 PM   #9
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RE: Transfer switch questions for inverter

Momentary is momentary.* What Fred is talking about is sustained operation where you are drawing more power than the pedestal can supply.* In that situation the inverter he is referring to has the ability to augment the power coming in from the post by drawing down the batteries.* Then when loads drop on the boat the inverter replaces the power it previously used by charging the batteries up again.* Its a wonderful feature - I wish I had it.* I believe it is only available on the 24 volt versions of the Trace inverter BICBW.
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:55 PM   #10
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RE: Transfer switch questions for inverter

Quote:
bobofthenorth wrote:
Momentary is momentary.* What Fred is talking about is sustained operation where you are drawing more power than the pedestal can supply.* In that situation the inverter he is referring to has the ability to augment the power coming in from the post by drawing down the batteries.* Then when loads drop on the boat the inverter replaces the power it previously used by charging the batteries up again.* Its a wonderful feature - I wish I had it.* I believe it is only available on the 24 volt versions of the Trace inverter BICBW.
*Thanks for the clear explaination.* That could be a very good feature.* My inverter just tolerates momentary overloads.* I didn't know that the current boost feature was available.
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Old 09-21-2011, 04:47 PM   #11
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RE: Transfer switch questions for inverter

I have 2 Heart 2500 inverters - one on the boat and one on the bus.* I can set them so that they will attempt to protect the pedestal but they will not do the power boost that Fred is referring to.* If I set the available amperage then the 2500 inverter will limit it's charging activity such that it won't create an overcurrent situation through charging.* Unfortunately it won't do anything if the residents of the boat/bus create the overcurrent through excess use of electrical gadgetry.

*
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