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Old 07-10-2019, 05:34 AM   #21
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IF you live in a farming area Cedar is great for rot resistance and can frequently be found in planks for making fences at farm supply places.

IPE is also great , but denser and harder to work with , although its use in patio decking makes it avilable in more areas.

If your trim is to be painted Azek or similar plastic is cheap and lasts "forever".
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:07 AM   #22
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would red cedar heart work?
Unfortunately I have not worked with red cedar in that application so I can't give you any first hand input (at least, that's worth listening to). It's a very soft wood and is often used to make the wedges that get driven around the samson post to hold it fast. I'm just not sure how a softer wood like that would work - I also depends on the actual setup you are using (length, diameter, etc) and whether you can upsize to make up for a lower strength to weight.

In your area, if I was going to experiment I'd be inclined to try cypress (aka juniper - which is readily available near you) before trying red cedar unless you have a knowledgeable person who suggests otherwise.

Again, I don't know the diameter you need, but I'd be more inclined to laminate my own post with a choice wood over using a substandard wood just because it can be made from a single piece.

Good luck.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:12 AM   #23
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Many people are allergic to the dust and gasses coming off Ipe when it is being shaped.
What about cypress? It is a good wood for wet environments but a bit hard to get the grain to lay down. You have to varnish it several times, with sanding in between each coat.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:31 AM   #24
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thanks for all the suggestions . i will try the hardwood store here and see what they have . it seems there is no clear answer. i may try the laminating .

now Dave has me thinking of new windows (man they are high). i already ordered all new canvas so the boat budget is in trouble this year . i may get the window i have out back together and focus on the Samson post . it will include an anchor locker rebuild .

thanks again
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:33 PM   #25
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Boat budget?
Be flexible.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:55 PM   #26
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Boat budget?
Be flexible.
i have flexed it . it's starting to look like a horse shoe . I cut one of the diesel tanks out last month. if i can ever get through to Moeller customer service i'm ordering two tanks to replace it with.
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:03 PM   #27
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If I thought I could maintain this finish I would not paint the windows
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Old 07-14-2019, 12:41 PM   #28
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That top pic looks real nice. If that is what you have after some sanding, I’m not sure what the problem is. What’s the finish that you used?

If the issue is the rotted connectors on the back, take them out and replace. To make them last, coat with a penetrating epoxy. Really that teak looks restorable. As far as new pieces, there are no local yards that do wood repairs? They always have small pieces around. Also try that marine consignment shop in Oriental, they might have some teak scraps lying around.
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Old 07-14-2019, 02:13 PM   #29
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I have done some unusual things joining wood to wood as in using old bronze screws set in epoxy or PL premium construction adhesive mixed with sawdust. Sometimes I have used SS deck screws or ribbed SS nails with heads removed. As long as it is hidden from site.

I might also use wood like a little piece of oak or teak, whatever I think would work ok.
Definitely I stay away from using wood dowels, I just the old screw or nail set in glue. I have also used big rusty nails set in epoxy, as long as it cant get wet, no rusting can happen.
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:16 PM   #30
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I have these back together I used oak(I think). and there is some thickened epoxy that shows . I need to paint the window frame. I have already painted the other one on the starboard side. I coated them with west system epoxy and may varnish the screen frames to see how that looks .I'm thinking of straight varnish only for the sliding hatch to see if I can keep up with it . the painting of the window frames was a reaction to trying to keep maintenance down and hide defects from the boat being left natural/unmaintained for so long .here is the aft hatch I don't want to paint it or the front one . I look at seattleboatguys videos that is the same boat as mine and really want to get closer to that. Though I know mine has a long way ,and a lot of boat units to go.
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:24 PM   #31
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this is the goal in 5 or so years if I get halfway there I'll be happy
https://youtu.be/A9whE1omTg8
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Old 07-15-2019, 02:23 PM   #32
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No no no on the red oak! Red oak’s grain sucks up water from the end grain like a straw. White oak however builds dams in the grain. Think of bamboo. White oak will still require the end grain sealed as well as well as all their surfaces.
White oak or black locust would be your best choice. Do not use “green” wood. Air dried is your best choice.
Below is a pic of a Samson post I was called in to replace. The rebuild of this boat was done very well with the exception of sealing any of the structural components
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As such the rebuild failed miserably

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My recommendation would be to seal all areas not to be varnished with penetrating epoxy
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:22 PM   #33
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When cruising Europe I used Iroko in place of teak. It was cheap there. In the US, most likely IPE would be the best substitute. You have the SS cap to protect the end of the grain. But still I would saturate the wood with Epoxy, and then put an UV inhibitor over the epoxy.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:03 PM   #34
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Not exactly sure here, but why not use just any old wood which will allow you to replace a non-structural window frame and soak it in CPES? I always did this with my wooden trawler and painted over the fix. Never had to go back to re-repair any site so treated.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:31 PM   #35
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White Oak is good also.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:58 PM   #36
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As such the rebuild failed miserably
y
that's what i'm afraid of i'll get it like i want it and it will later fail . i called the local hardwood supply . he has fir and western cedar in 6x6 ? i emailed a place at the coast but i'm not sure they sell to the public. going to prime the backside of the window this evening . and varnish the back of the screen frame if i have time. i wanted it ready to go back on Friday but i don't think i'll have it all ready. .

would western cedar or fir work ? they seem like they would be soft .
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Old 07-16-2019, 02:40 PM   #37
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would western cedar or fir work ? they seem like they would be soft .
Too be clear, are you asking about the samson post with this question? As I mentioned before, I've seen fir used on a number of workboats for samson post and towing bits. If they are not painted, then fir needs to be sealed with epoxy or a good boat soup. But it can certainly be made strong enough.

No experience with the red cedar so I don't want to comment on that.

You never mentioned (that I saw) the dimensions of the samson post and boat's displacement. If I were doing a very heavy boat with no room to upsize the samson post, I'd prefer making my own out of a couple pieces of white oak. But fir does have a good strength to weight ratio.
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:06 PM   #38
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I the fir is for the Samson post . it's 4.25x 4.25 now .the boat spec is 20000. I thought of upsizing it and cleaning up the deck opening for a tighter fit. it would be the cheapest option at less than 150$ for a 6x6 8 feet long. then trying to rip and plane it down.


thanks
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:40 PM   #39
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I the fir is for the Samson post . it's 4.25x 4.25 now .the boat spec is 20000. I thought of upsizing it and cleaning up the deck opening for a tighter fit. it would be the cheapest option at less than 150$ for a 6x6 8 feet long. then trying to rip and plane it down.


thanks
I upped all the wood samson post sizes on my boat too.
I actually have quite mix. One is an oak, another is an ash, the front one is a piece of PT 4x4 pine, but unlike any you could buy today. It was on my inlaws land and had been one end stuck in the ground from at least the mid 70's and was PERFECT, no blemishes, no knots, very dense and very tight grain and no rot. It also never got sun exposure, always shaded.

That front one is maybe 5.5 feet long, one end bolts to a floor in the bilge, with a galvanized lag bolt. It was thicker than the OEM and it has held some heavy anchor loads.

The old post were Douglass fir.
Here is a new one which is wider and actually fit the teak deck tightly. I replaced them when I rebuilt the aft decking.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:33 AM   #40
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the fir is for the Samson post . it's 4.25x 4.25 now .the boat spec is 20000. I thought of upsizing it...
Well, it's certainly not oversized now. Fir should work fine if you can't get a harder wood in the size you need. Oak is certainly much stronger and harder than fir, but fir has been used in the application quite frequently. If you have the ability to upsize, then I'd be more comfortable with substituting fir.

Around here (central VA) Douglas fir is used fairly frequently and I don't second guess these 3rd or 4th generation boat builders. Cypress is also used but it seems cypress tow posts and samson posts look a little larger - I don't know if that is some scientific approach to get the same strength or just because. Cypress is a little softer and has lower strength but the same weight as Douglas fir. But some folks obviously prefer it if they can increase the size.
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