Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-06-2012, 03:33 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Boydster's Avatar
 
City: Squamish, B.C.
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Change of Heart
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 42
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 221
CPES...clear penetrating epoxy sealer. Epoxy can't be used on its own as it won't stand up to ultra-violet exposure.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Everything on your boat is broken...you just don't know about it yet.
Boydster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 07:31 PM   #22
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
The wood's not beautiful with no or failing finish on it.

If you keep renewing the oil the wood will not weather gray, obviously.

CPES is a thin 1:1, 2- part epoxy. It has the consistency of diesel fuel which is why it penetrates wood cells so well. Like most epoxies CPES has no UV resistance so it must be covered by something that does-- varnish, Bristol, paint, etc., but not Cetol as has been discussed before. CPES is NOT an adhesive epoxy but a penetrating/sealing epoxy only.
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 08:17 PM   #23
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,724
Cetol dosn't get along w CPES? What's Cetol anyway ... I thought it was just another semi-clear stain w oil base. If the other oil based stuff goes over CPES why won't Cetol?

Thanks Marin for the info on CPES. If I build a new OB boat i'll prolly be us'in that stuff. Either that or gobs of oil, Pine Tar, wood preservative and other such stuff. Now that I'm living down south my boat will start looking better.
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 08:23 PM   #24
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,997
Greetings,
Mr. Marin. Could one not achieve similar sealing results with thinned WEST system epoxy as opposed to CPES?
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2012, 11:09 PM   #25
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Cetol dosn't get along w CPES? What's Cetol anyway ... I thought it was just another semi-clear stain w oil base. If the other oil based stuff goes over CPES why won't Cetol?
This was discussed at length in another thread. Cetol apparently needs to penetrate the wood in order to work. Sealing the wood with CPES prevents the Cetol from doing this. In any event, the CPES manufacturer cautions against using Cetol over CPES.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2012, 01:23 AM   #26
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. Marin. Could one not achieve similar sealing results with thinned WEST system epoxy as opposed to CPES?
I have no idea. CPES is the penetrating epoxy of choice of the most experienced shipwrights and long-time GB owners on the GB forum, which is where I first heard of it many years ago. So that's what we've been using ever since with as-advertised results. The manufacturer (Smiths) claims properties not available in other off-the-shelf epoxies. Don't know if it's an accurate claim but we've had no reason to try anything else.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2012, 12:14 PM   #27
OFB
Guru
 
OFB's Avatar
 
City: Richmond bc
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Invader no1
Vessel Model: Kishi Boat works
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 640
RT

Thats what I do. I used to use cold cure epoxy mixed with acetone to thin. I switched about 8 years ago to the west system and do the same with acetone to thin. It penetrates the wood be that a hard wood like gumwood or CEDAR.

I switched to the west system as there is a west marine store under my office. The dispence system is easy and clean. Even I can get the mix correct. I just have to make sure I am using the correct hardner for the job I am doing.

When "painting" with epoxy I usualy thin it down.

Eric you take me back to the days of boiling linseed and terps to cover the deck of a wood fishboat. Sticky you bet and man did them decks get hot in the sun, one did not go bare foot ! I know a few old timers that changed to Cetol for that job and loved it.
OFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 06:21 PM   #28
Member
 
City: key west
Country: usa
Vessel Name: cruzan fools
Vessel Model: 1973 grand banks 48
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
1973 grand banks 48

if you love doing bright work ill sell you my boat
boatrentals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 10:58 PM   #29
Guru
 
Scary's Avatar
 
City: Walnut Grove Ca
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cary'D Away
Vessel Model: Hatteras 48 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 884
Cetol over cpes

When I bought my boat the previous owner had been using Cetol Gloss on my bright work which is Teak and Mohogony. All I can say it it has held up very well. I'm going on three years without needing any touch up. I'ts holding up better than anything else I've used in the past. I have just finished rebuilding the stern off a 57' ChrisCraft which we are using Cetol to finish the transom and swim platform. The platform was extensively rebuilt using Cpes and West epoxy filler with Cetol Amber followed with ten coats of Cetol Gloss. So far it looks good and we have no problem with adhesion of the Cetol. Time will tell I guess. The Transom will be coated with two coats of Cetol light over ChrisCraft mohogony stain by Petit followed with 10 coats of Cetol gloss. Most of the professional finishers like Captains because it's easy to apply and recoat. We are using Cetol based on my experience with my boat in the California Delta sun. I have used CPES extensively to add dry rot protection to wood framing members and bottom planks. It penetrates dry wood replacing lost natural resins that leach out over time. Good stuff.
Scary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 12:43 AM   #30
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,497
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. Marin. Could one not achieve similar sealing results with thinned WEST system epoxy as opposed to CPES?
Yes. If you look at the msds for Smiths, which I have used a fair among of, it is just epoxy mixed with MEK, whatever the sales pitch asserts.
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 06:22 AM   #31
Veteran Member
 
VixenII's Avatar
 
City: La Parguera
Country: Puerto Rico
Vessel Name: VIXEN II
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 44
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 42
There is one bright product that I have not only used on the trawler but also on the our old (65 yrs. ) sailboat. It is called Honey Teak by Signature Paints of Stuart, FL. This system has given me more than four years service without recoating here in the Caribbean with constant exposure to the tropical environment. It is a two part - two step - multiple coat system that is easy to work with. Practical Boat gave it the highest marks. Its expensive compared with simple spar varnish but well worth it. (Unfortunately for me, it has to be shipped via truck -hazmat rules- and I cannot get more down here in PR... Fed, DHL, UPS do not offer anything but air freight here.) It is worth checking out. At least, I like it, for whatever thats worth.
VixenII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:26 AM   #32
JD
Guru
 
JD's Avatar
 
City: New Bern NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Stella Di Mare
Vessel Model: Mainship 34t
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by VixenII View Post
There is one bright product that I have not only used on the trawler but also on the our old (65 yrs. ) sailboat. It is called Honey Teak by Signature Paints of Stuart, FL. This system has given me more than four years service without recoating here in the Caribbean with constant exposure to the tropical environment. It is a two part - two step - multiple coat system that is easy to work with. Practical Boat gave it the highest marks.
Agree 200%. It does take a bit of a skill set but the more you use the product the better you get. Also as you will learn you will have a redo in the first year at a couple of spots. The trick we found was that if you let the redo spot go to long it gets harder to re do. So jump up and do the redo ASAP. What you will find then is that after doing a couple of re-dos they seem to go away and not return.

The more finish coats that you use the better the product looks. Depending on your project it is possible to do two or three finish coats in one day. We did the 2 x 3" toe rail on our 38 foot sail boat and after the first couple of coats we were able to do three additional coats on the second day. There is no sanding required as long as the surface is still a bit tackie. If allowed to dry hard a green scruffy does the job.

The product withstands the NC sun and except for a re coat of a couple of coats every year or two it with stands anything. Drop something on the rail, make a chip, redo the spot and it will blend in like it never happened.

On three different sail boats, lot of teak, we have tried several different finishes. Varnish, Bristol, Cetol and Honey Teak. Honey Teak gives the same quality finish as many coats of varnish but in the end is way easier to apply and maintain the finish.

I have no connection other than having been a happy satisfied user of the product.
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 03:28 PM   #33
Veteran Member
 
VikingBay's Avatar
 
City: Marysville, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Nehalennia
Vessel Model: SeaRay 260DA "Sundancer"
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 51
The best product I've found and use is made by Systems3.
WR-LPU Topcoat - System Three Resins, Inc.
It is more expensive and harder to handle but once done, it's beautiful, lasts a long time and has UV protection.
Here is a table that is is exposed to weather periodically and constantly exposed to weeping glasses, etc, and still looks new today.

VikingBay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 03:45 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
Captain K's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Shores, Alabama
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Holly Day
Vessel Model: Marine Trader 44
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 288
Spring of 2011 we varnished the starboard side handrail and caprail of our Marine Trader 44 with Epiphanes (10 coats) and as a control test, did the port side with Cabot gloss spar varnish (10 coats). We paid $37US/Qt. for the Epiphanes, and $14US/Qt. for the Cabot. As of early November, 2012 we can not tell the difference in the protective, or cosmetic properties of the two sides. Both sides still look good as new. The boat was in the Florida Keys last winter, and the Redneck Riviera (northern Gulf of Mexico) the rest of the time.
Captain K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 03:54 PM   #35
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,497
Quote:
Originally Posted by VikingBay View Post
The best product I've found and use is made by Systems3.
WR-LPU Topcoat - System Three Resins, Inc.
It is more expensive and harder to handle but once done, it's beautiful, lasts a long time and has UV protection.
Here is a table that is is exposed to weather periodically and constantly exposed to weeping glasses, etc, and still looks new today.
Although I haven't used the clear coat, I have the System 3 pigmented product, and so far it seems to be holding up as well as Awlgrip, but is a whole lot easier to apply. Did you thin yours with alcohol and water and what tips can you give on getting the clear coat to flow?
__________________
Delfin
"Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis." - Jack Handy
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 04:07 PM   #36
Veteran Member
 
VikingBay's Avatar
 
City: Marysville, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Nehalennia
Vessel Model: SeaRay 260DA "Sundancer"
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 51
No it is a slow pour type which for your railings and other uneven surfaces makes it more difficult. If masked correctly, be patience and if done in stages can be done with great results. Some wetsanding between stages may be necessary to blend nicely, but it's definitely a great product.
__________________
Skål
Todd
....aboard "Nehalennia"
www.vikingbay.co
VikingBay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 04:18 PM   #37
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,724
I used a Systems Three water based clear coating on my teak caprials several years ago and it didn't make it through an Alaskan winter at all. That's a lot to ask of course (and on teak too) but I haven't used it since. It's a very thin coating as I recall.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 12:55 AM   #38
Veteran Member
 
VikingBay's Avatar
 
City: Marysville, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Nehalennia
Vessel Model: SeaRay 260DA "Sundancer"
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
I used a Systems Three water based clear coating on my teak caprials several years ago and it didn't make it through an Alaskan winter at all. That's a lot to ask of course (and on teak too) but I haven't used it since. It's a very thin coating as I recall.
Which product, specifically, did you use as I have not seen anything like what you described out of the product I posted.
__________________

__________________
Skål
Todd
....aboard "Nehalennia"
www.vikingbay.co
VikingBay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012