Copper line for hydraulic steering

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Panacea123

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
163
Location
Usa
Vessel Name
Panacea
Vessel Make
Novatec 42 Sundeck Trawler
Question for the forum.
I have a 2002 Novatec with hydraulic steering, works fine no problems.
It is entirely plumbed with copper tubing.
I worry sometimes about fatigue and possible failure of the lines due to vibration.
Anyone have any experience with this?
What are your systems made with, and have you had any failures?
 
Question for the forum.
I have a 2002 Novatec with hydraulic steering, works fine no problems.
It is entirely plumbed with copper tubing.
I worry sometimes about fatigue and possible failure of the lines due to vibration.
Anyone have any experience with this?
What are your systems made with, and have you had any failures?


Ours is all rigid copper tubing except for the connections to the steering cylinders and AP pumps. In the case of the cylinders, there is movement that needs to be accommodated, and in the case of the pumps, there is vibration to isolate.

Most manufacturers recommend piping if possible since it doesn't expand like hose and provides less spongy steering.
 
My 40 yr old boat has copper with the exception of the final lines to the steering cylinder. The only part that had to be replaced was because of a kink which I took out years ago.
If they are well supported and dry they should do well for a long time.
 
On mine it is copper from tank to filter than out of filter to infection pump it is first half copper, last part fuel hose.

L
 
L, Allowing for typos, it should be hydraulic hose rather than fuel hose for hydraulic service. As above, hydraulic hose has to be resistant to stretching so that the forces transmit directly. If you're responding as though the question is about fuel lines...
 
Oups sorry I read fuel in place of hydraulic, my apologizes! In that case for me it is copper all the way but the last foot before the rudder cylinder. Last foot is flexible hose.

L
 
Mine are 30 yo copper. I replaced a return line that started weeping a year ago. It sometimes touched bilge water as it was the lowest run of the set and was green with corrosion. The rest are fine. I replaced it with copper nickel which is not cheap, but with slightly better corrosion properties, I don't plan on replacing it in my lifetime. Hard to generally argue with the lifespan of copper.
 
On my dream to do list is figure out the size and fitting type of the copper lines in my boat and add a couple feet of spare pipe, some extra couplings, and a cutter, and flare tool to my spare kit. That way if I ever did have a break I could just cut out the leak, put in a new sort section of pipe, bleed the system, and be on my way. It would be much easier than trying to repair a hydraulic hose, if you had the right parts.
 
Flareing kit. If you get the double flaring kit and learn to use it the flares will be much improved. Bit more effort but far better results.
The double kit will still make singles..
I suggest the double because when I overhauled my system years ago most of the leaks were split singles from original build. Not all joins are doubles as I redid only those needing a redo and and the needed new flares.
No leaks since approx. 20 yrs.
 
Nothing wrong with Copper lines used for steering , how ever here's few items concerning Copper and the feasibility of using Nylon Lines

1)Always use only FULLY ANNEALED tubing and the following rules should be strictly adhered to:-

1) Use compressed air and blow out all tubing to remove dust and debris
from storage. DO NOT CUT WITH A HACKSAW - USE ONLY A PIPE CUTTER.
2) Avoid brazing or soldering joints as this introduces scale and burnt
flux into the tubes. Use commercial hydraulic joining fittings to avoid this. If you cannot, or will not, avoid soldering, then you MUST air-test each of the joints and flush the system using kerosene or similar to remove the solder, flux and scale BEFORE CONNECTING it to the steering unit.
3) Where the tubing is to be bent, you should use a proper tube-bender to
avoid kinking the tubing, which could result in firm steering.
4) Do not use Copper tubing on Aluminium boats unless it can be installed with isolation washers/ Nylon saddles/clamps
5) COPPER tubing can be substituted with either steel or stainless steelhydraulic tubing. IT SHOULD NEVER BE SUBSTITUTED WITH HIGH PRESSURE FLEXIBLE HYDRAULIC HOSE.(except for flexible end connections).
6)DO NOT USE Teflon Tape as it can be introduced into the system by
inexperienced installers. THIS MAY CAUSE VALVE FAILURE.

USING NYLON TUBING:

1)1) USE ONLY THE SEMI-RIGID NYLON with a MINIMUM burst pressure of 2500 PSI. DO NOT SUBSTITUTE for any other material, even if the rated burst-pressure is higher.
2) USE ONLY BLACK NYLON as the black material is U.V. stabilized. White, opaque or other colors may/ will harden in the sun.
3) It is most important that cones be fitted exactly square to the hose fitting to ensure proper sealing. Cut the tubing with a sharp knife SQUARELY and UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES use a hacksaw.

Cheers Steve:thumb:
 
"It would be much easier than trying to repair a hydraulic hose, if you had the right parts."

There are hyd fittings that can be bench assembled , do not require a swagging setup.

These can be put together with only 2 wrenches , and are fine for hyd system pressures.
 
I have learned to love the black nylon tubing, very easy to work with, and does not corrode.
Some say that it makes the helm feel "mushy", but I have not had that experience.
On my last boat, I changed out the leaky green copper for black nylon that was 1/4" larger than the original tubing, which resulted in a much smoother feel at the helm, with less effort to turn, and contrary to "dock knowledge", did not affect the number of turns lock to lock.
 
I have Wagner steering, installed about 1970. All copper except for the cylinder connection. Total run is about 80' counting the run to the flying bridge. I changed the hoses a couple years ago when I rebuilt the cylinder. I really didn't need to rebuild or replace as I found when disassembling. Most of the run is in the bilge area, so fairly consistent cool temperature. Straight horizontal run is copper pipe, vertical runs and connections are tubing. No issues, rebuild parts still easily acquired.
If I had to replumb, I would use hose because it's easier to drag and feed hose and I'm 70.
Fuel lines and returns (5 sets) were copper, possibly from the same time. Also mechanical engine room gauges had copper runs. Replaced with hose because of leaks from rubbing/vibration in their enclosing brackets. One pin hole in a gauge oil line. To protect from wear, I enclosed new hose in an outside hose at possible wear points. It will outlive me.
 
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