Westmarine

[boatnbump]

https://www.westmarine.com/apollo-valves-bronze-tailpieces-P011_332_001_023.html

I bought a couple of these fitting 6 months ago and as soon as i looked at them i immediately knew they weren't bronze they looked like brass. I called West marine and they sent me a refund. I noticed today they are still listed as bronze. I called the manufacturer and yes they are red brass. Obviously West marine doesn't care.

 

[PhilPB]

I've had some questionable purchases too. When I was replacing ignition switches I ended up with one that was obviously not the right switch as was listed on the package. Not sure if someone switched it or it was an mfg error

 

[psneeld]

"Gun metal, also known as red brass in the United States, is a type of bronze "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunmetal

 

[DDW]

The definition of bronze has gotten extremely loose in recent years. A very large percentage of stuff sold as bronze is in fact brass. Bronze is classically defined as an alloy of copper and tin, while brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. "Naval bronze" is sort of like "plastic wood" and other forms of would-be-wood. Not really bronze, not really wood. Unfortunately with bronze, the only way you can really tell is to own a XRF gun, shoot the fitting, and you'll know instantly. Pricey tool though, for the average boat owner.

 

[SoWhat]

The definition of bronze has gotten extremely loose in recent years. A very large percentage of stuff sold as bronze is in fact brass. Bronze is classically defined as an alloy of copper and tin, while brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. "Naval bronze" is sort of like "plastic wood" and other forms of would-be-wood. Not really bronze, not really wood. Unfortunately with bronze, the only way you can really tell is to own a XRF gun, shoot the fitting, and you'll know instantly.

Pricey tool though, for the average boat owner.

There is brass, bronze, and then a thousand alloys called brass, bronze, naval bronze, gunmetal, phosphor bronze,....... I think any alloy containing copper, tin, and zinc is probably OK for marine environment but there is no sure way of determining what the particular alloy is.

The XRF gun is $24,000 on Amazon. Think I'll pass on that for now. If my bronze "boat thingy" turns pink, I'll replace it.

 

[psneeld]

I believe it is the percentage of zinc that scares people between brass and bronze.

When the zinc percentage gets low enough, brass is often called bronze.

 

[Comodave]

I believe it is the percentage of zinc that scares people between brass and bronze.

When the zinc percentage gets low enough, brass is often called bronze.

Yes because it is the least noble and wastes away just like zinc anodes.

 

[Fleming]

It says right on the West Marine listing that it is 85-5-5-5 Bronze. As mentioned above brass/bronze are often used interchangeably, it's the alloy composition that really matters.

The 85-5-5-5 is properly called 'Leaded Red Brass" and is a much better material than red brass. True 'Red Brass' has 15% zinc and 85% copper. The 'Leaded Red Brass' is 85% copper, 5% tin, 5% lead, and 5% zinc. That small percentage of zinc, while not ideal or a top choice for seawater applications, is not as bad as actual Red Brass with 15% zinc.

To give you an idea, your "bronze" propeller which is often also called 'Manganeze Bronze" or 'Naval Brass' is 40% zinc and 60% copper. As we all know they are prone to dezincification but work just fine in seawater as long as they are galvanically protected.

Steve D may chime in himself, I know he's probably reading this, but I'll quote him in one of his Cruising world articles. "Frustratingly, it’s nearly impossible to determine the difference between brass, bronze, leaded red brass, and DZR (for “dezincification resistant brass”) alloys, the latter three of which are all acceptable when used below the waterline or in seawater. With regard to content, I’m uncomfortable for seawater use with any alloy that contains more than 10 percent zinc." https://www.cruisingworld.com/how/d...ly impossible to,the waterline or in seawater.

So I think those fittings are probably fine, West Marine is not scamming customers, and the great brass/bronze debates will continue on.

 

[rwidman]

https://www.westmarine.com/apollo-valves-bronze-tailpieces-P011_332_001_023.html

I bought a couple of these fitting 6 months ago and as soon as i looked at them i immediately knew they weren't bronze they looked like brass. I called West marine and they sent me a refund. I noticed today they are still listed as bronze. I called the manufacturer and yes they are red brass. Obviously West marine doesn't care.

Yea, you are making a false assumption there. They do care and they sent you a refund.