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Old 02-20-2014, 08:15 AM   #81
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While the total number of sinkers that are totaled may be smaller..the ones that are may be such a large "loss" compared to dozens of smaller ones..the total numbers may not say as much.

Every summer I'm involved with salvaging dozens of small runabouts, center consoles...ect...most of them are not totaled as the engines are running within hours after salvage. The onboard systems are also usually inexpensive enough either immediate replacement or the more usual..wait and see if there is damage approach doesn't cost all that much compared to the total loss check. When these boats get over 10-15 years old..the total loss numbers do rise as the boats are not worth much compared to restoring them.

But it only takes a few 40 footers with diesels, and expensive onboard systems to equal things up pretty quick dollars wise ....There's lot's of wall coverings and upholstery needing major interior scrub down due to oil/diesel that help total them out pretty quick from sheer labor.

Those are my observations of how the salvaged boats are handled and talking with the ins. co. appraisers as they often have lots of questions when we bring the boat to the lift.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:13 AM   #82
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Mike & Tina: Thanks for the "rest of the story"…..well done. Who knows…maybe some wannabe live-aboard with youth and energy to spare will scrape this one up and still bring it back. More puzzling choices have been made.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:13 PM   #83
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Anybody interested in a "fixer-upper"? Probably get it from the insurance company for a good price!
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:51 PM   #84
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I guess I'm a bit stymied by the insurance company's response to this sinking. Yes, they paid the insured off for the boat fairly quickly. But their inaction since then almost makes it seem like they've never handled this kind of a situation before.

Do they not know that sunken boats have to be brought up and there are huge salvage costs involved? Do they not know what generally happens to boats once they're raised--things like towing it somewhere so it can be lifted out of the water, and about pickling the engines and auctioning it off, etc.

IMHO the insurance company is acting like amateurs handling their first major claim.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:06 AM   #85
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I guess I'm a bit stymied by the insurance company's response to this sinking. Yes, they paid the insured off for the boat fairly quickly. But their inaction since then almost makes it seem like they've never handled this kind of a situation before.

Do they not know that sunken boats have to be brought up and there are huge salvage costs involved? Do they not know what generally happens to boats once they're raised--things like towing it somewhere so it can be lifted out of the water, and about pickling the engines and auctioning it off, etc.

IMHO the insurance company is acting like amateurs handling their first major claim.
Unless specifically stated in your policy...the salvage costs usually come off the top of your agreed upon value.....many people don't know this and things go south from there.

I have waited often on salvaging boats because the owner and salvage company have gone round and round over this issue.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:47 AM   #86
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GFC,

Thanks for the update! It is very interesting and I loved the pictures
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:41 AM   #87
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Unless specifically stated in your policy...the salvage costs usually come off the top of your agreed upon value.....many people don't know this and things go south from there.
That's one of the main differences between a "boat policy" and a "yacht policy". What you stated is more representative of a boat policy. The boat is insured for a defined amount and any salvage and environmental cleanup costs are deducted from that amount and the owner gets the remainder...if there is any.

On a yacht policy the boat is insured for a set amount. Any environmental or salvage costs are handled separately from the value of the boat.

If you boat owners don't know which way your policy would handle salvage or environmental costs, it might be worth a call to your agent.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:42 AM   #88
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Unless specifically stated in your policy...the salvage costs usually come off the top of your agreed upon value.....many people don't know this and things go south from there.

I have waited often on salvaging boats because the owner and salvage company have gone round and round over this issue.
Wooo Tilly!!

That correct?? I ask TF ins guru's to chime in on the "salvage costs" factor mentioned above. Do they actually "...usually come off the top of your agreed upon value..." If so, I'd better contact my agent immediatly, not that I anticipate my boat to sink at all... but, careful is as careful does! Must admit - I did not carefully read through every of the many pages of my boat's ins policy.

On TF... Ya can often learn somen every day!
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:59 AM   #89
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depends on your policy but both BoatUS and Sea Insure (Sea Tow) have printed warnings about it in the past. Likely because of the middleman position they get into when performing salvage and the owner gets told by his agent about the fine print.

yacht policy, boat policy, gimmick policy...whatever...just make sure you know what yours says in case.....
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:12 PM   #90
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Since we cruise warmer climates, I haven't given this paragraph under exclusions, from our policy, much thought till this thread came up.


B. any loss caused directly or indirectly by ice or freezing; however if the insured boat, its
engine(s) and systems are winterized in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications and
the customs of the area, coverage will be provided for losses due to ice or freezing;
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:40 PM   #91
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Unless specifically stated in your policy...the salvage costs usually come off the top of your agreed upon value.....many people don't know this and things go south from there.

I have waited often on salvaging boats because the owner and salvage company have gone round and round over this issue.
True depending on the policy language. True Yacht policies (based on coverage vice vessel size and all risk vice named perils) hold salvage as an "in addition to" coverage that does not affect the agreed value.

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That's one of the main differences between a "boat policy" and a "yacht policy". What you stated is more representative of a boat policy. The boat is insured for a defined amount and any salvage and environmental cleanup costs are deducted from that amount and the owner gets the remainder...if there is any.

On a yacht policy the boat is insured for a set amount. Any environmental or salvage costs are handled separately from the value of the boat.

If you boat owners don't know which way your policy would handle salvage or environmental costs, it might be worth a call to your agent.
Correct, correct, and correct.

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depends on your policy but both BoatUS and Sea Insure (Sea Tow) have printed warnings about it in the past. Likely because of the middleman position they get into when performing salvage and the owner gets told by his agent about the fine print.

yacht policy, boat policy, gimmick policy...whatever...just make sure you know what yours says in case.....
No gimmicks in policy language- it's pretty clear, The problem is that people try to go with either:
  1. The lowest cost policy regardless of coverage.
  2. Their home and auto agent who doesn't know anything about marine policies.

GFC is absolutely correct- the yacht policy is an agreed value that, for a total loss, is paid in full to the client without depreciation or deductible applied. Environmental and salvage coverages are not deducted from the hull coverage, but are paid in addition (as separate sublimits) to the payment made to the insured for the total loss of the vessel.

The limits for salvage charges are generally equal to the agreed value of the vessel.
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:11 PM   #92
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OK...so knowing what your policy reads and as you say..."The limits for salvage charges are generally equal to the agreed value of the vessel. " is pretty important...gimmick policies aside of course....

I would take that as...know WTF your policy covers and not....maybe you are a great insurance agent...but believe me not all are...especially like you said...shopping for cheap insurance can eave you with your mouth gaping open...when the salvor hits you with the bill and your insurance agent in Jamaica say there's nothing he can do....
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:20 PM   #93
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Wow, Thank for the update. Great pictures too. Which harbor is this boat at? Heartbreaking to see such a nice boat end its life that way.
Also , thanks for the insurance advice.

Paul, are there policies that cover salvage, oil cleanup , etc?
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:38 PM   #94
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Wow, Thank for the update. Great pictures too. Which harbor is this boat at? Heartbreaking to see such a nice boat end its life that way.
Also , thanks for the insurance advice.

Paul, are there policies that cover salvage, oil cleanup , etc?
Sure...most of the better yacht policies these days do...I'm just saying make sure as the people who just add a "boat" or "yacht" policy with the average insurance agent really needs to take a good look and compare with some of the policies from some of the better marine insurance companies....

Sorry my first name is Paul but his info was correct and so is mine....I'm sure he can be more specific in language and where to look/compare...
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:33 PM   #95
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Paul, thanks for a professional interpretation of what I put above. Most of us are not insurance experts and most of us have a hard time reading insurance policies. (Some times I think the insurance companies write them this way so we don't know what's in them.)

That's why it is SO important that you trust your marine insurance agent to act on our behalf and not "sell" you a policy just because you tell him you don't want to spend much on boat insurance. The difference between a cheap boat policy and a more expensive yacht policy is just a few hundred bucks a year, but could cost you tens of thousands if you don't buy the right coverage.

bligh, the boat is moored at the Port of Kennewick marina on Clover Island in Kennewick, WA. If you want to look it up on Google Earth, it's at 46*12'57"N, 119*06'36"W. My dock is the one furthest to the east. If you zoom in close you can see the boat that sank on the west side of that dock out near the end. By boat is directly across that covered N-S dock.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:40 PM   #96
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Unless specifically stated in your policy...the salvage costs usually come off the top of your agreed upon value.....many people don't know this and things go south from there.

I have waited often on salvaging boats because the owner and salvage company have gone round and round over this issue.
That's a good warning to everyone. Make sure your policy does include any salvage or environmental costs.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:44 PM   #97
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Paul, thanks for a professional interpretation of what I put above. Most of us are not insurance experts and most of us have a hard time reading insurance policies. (Some times I think the insurance companies write them this way so we don't know what's in them.)

That's why it is SO important that you trust your marine insurance agent to act on our behalf and not "sell" you a policy just because you tell him you don't want to spend much on boat insurance. The difference between a cheap boat policy and a more expensive yacht policy is just a few hundred bucks a year, but could cost you tens of thousands if you don't buy the right coverage.

bligh, the boat is moored at the Port of Kennewick marina on Clover Island in Kennewick, WA. If you want to look it up on Google Earth, it's at 46*12'57"N, 119*06'36"W. My dock is the one furthest to the east. If you zoom in close you can see the boat that sank on the west side of that dock out near the end. By boat is directly across that covered N-S dock.
Yes, definitely have someone whose full time occupation is marine insurance. Also, depending on your own experience, it may be worth the cost to have a maritime lawyer review your policy and coverage.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:52 AM   #98
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Or trust your agent. I trust mine. The La Connor fire today makes me thankful that we have a yacht policy.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:58 AM   #99
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Wow, Thank for the update. Great pictures too. Which harbor is this boat at? Heartbreaking to see such a nice boat end its life that way.
Also , thanks for the insurance advice.

Paul, are there policies that cover salvage, oil cleanup , etc?
Yessir, there are; a "Yacht Form" policy will have these coverages. Bear in mind that "yacht" has nothing to do with the size of the vessel, but rather defines the scope of the coverage the policy offers. A Yacht Form usually includes as standard coverages: Agreed Value settlement, All Risk, combined single limit liability, pollution coverage, salvage, permissive use, US L&H, and more.

One can have a "yacht" policy on a 19' Sea Ray, a 11' Whaler' or a Nordhavn 62- each vessel will have the exact same basic coverages relative to the vessel value. What you don't want is a "Boat Form" policy on your vessel (Actual Cash Value settlement, split limit liability, limited or no pollution coverage, limited or no salvage coverage, named operator coverage).

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Paul, thanks for a professional interpretation of what I put above. Most of us are not insurance experts and most of us have a hard time reading insurance policies. (Some times I think the insurance companies write them this way so we don't know what's in them.)

That's why it is SO important that you trust your marine insurance agent to act on our behalf and not "sell" you a policy just because you tell him you don't want to spend much on boat insurance. The difference between a cheap boat policy and a more expensive yacht policy is just a few hundred bucks a year, but could cost you tens of thousands if you don't buy the right coverage.
Mike, this simple truth could save so much heartache. We spend a great deal of money for our boats, and it's sad to talk to an owner who swears his Progressive/GEICO/AAA/USAA/Allstate/Farmers/AmFam/________ (insert company here) policy is the best- AND it's cheaper. Usually this owner has no clue what his policy covers, and is too hard headed to converse about how his policy may be inadequate relative to the risk.

Save a couple of dollars to lose much in the event of a claim just doesn't make sense to me.

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That's a good warning to everyone. Make sure your policy does include any salvage or environmental costs.
Indeed.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:22 PM   #100
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Well look at what I found on CL!

50 ft grand banks yacht salvage
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