Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-06-2016, 05:30 PM   #41
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
But the L C Committee is an environmental group that can advocate but NOT make law...that's why they can't (won't) cite any Fed, NY and\or VT Reg's or Laws that back them up.
I agree. I was just responding to Peggy's comment that the org was in VT, not lake champlain. In this context, they are one in the same.

The question of disconnected/disabled black water hoses came up a few years ago and I know I went and read the actual laws back then and found it I think in both the VT and NY books. I started to pursue it in VT where I own property since I agree that it is in conflict with the federal laws, and Champlain meets the criteria for for falling under the federal CG and EPA laws since it is navigable to the sea. But I quickly decided it wasn't a crusade I wanted to take on at the time, which is exactly the problem. It's easier for any individual to a) take a different route and skip Champlain, b) take the risk that you won't get boarded and inspected and called on the law, or c) just disconnect the hoses then reconnect when you get out of the area. To me this is the perfect task for the BoatUS government liaison group. as a representative of it's constituent's interests. I'm convinced that if challenged, the law would get struck down, but it needs to be challenged which is a giant PITA, and surely costly.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 12:49 PM   #42
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,155
So if this is a regulation that needs to be challenged, where is BoatUS and other boating groups?
__________________

__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 02:35 PM   #43
Guru
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
So if this is a regulation that needs to be challenged, where is BoatUS and other boating groups?
My guess is:
1) It takes awareness - BoatUS focus is on Fed Regs and isn't as concerned w/ states (not saying totally unconcerned but focus is Feds - from experience I've communicated w/ them on another issue)
2) Priorites - they also focus on the big issues affecting many vs fewer

I wonder if they are even aware or have had requests.
Boated Lk Champlain twice - I disconnected my discharge when I brought the boat to NY so wasn't an issue - most not all that hard to disconnect a hose clamp / hose
Lk Champlain / Richleu Canal are beautiful and I would encourage anyone contemplating the trip to not let the regulation discourage them.
__________________
Don
MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 04:42 PM   #44
TF Site Team
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,733
Our plans are (finally after 2 years of postponements) to do the Erie Canal up and Richlieu and Champlain back down this summer. The thought of having to disconnect that putrid, dripping hose before entering Champlain does not enthuse me.

Trying to think of a way of preparing for the disconnect/reconnect in advance that would be simple and clean and easy. Right now it would entail a heat gun to soften up the hose between the holding tank and the seacock, yanking off the hose and getting slimed and gagged by what's in the hose. Not to mention that now the holding tank discharge is open to the air.
__________________
David Hawkins
Deer Isle, Maine
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 05:13 PM   #45
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodscrew View Post
I have heard and read reliable reports of dye being used in both Long Island sound and around Newport. They dump it in the head, flush,flush, flush away and woe be unto those who discharge overboard. It would be interesting to dump dye into some random toilets in NYC and see where it comes out. Just saying'.
Depends on whether it is raining.

It's far cheaper to pass a law or regulation that affects some, thus giving the illusion of solving a problem.

Politicians get reelected every two to four years by putting on these shows.

In the meantime: the real problem, untreated waste in waters that get puts there by the bypass of the water treatment plant would cause millions to correct and affect voters by taking up more land to build the required additional storage.

So, we have clean water theater, brought to you my the same people who have your grandmother taking off her shoes at the airport.
__________________
M/Y Dauntless, New York
a Kadey Krogen 42 Currently https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Blog: https://dauntlessatsea.com
Find us: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 09:49 PM   #46
Guru
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhatty View Post
Our plans are (finally after 2 years of postponements) to do the Erie Canal up and Richlieu and Champlain back down this summer.

Trying to think of a way of preparing for the disconnect/reconnect in advance that would be simple and clean
Absolutely do the trip...you will love it.
Prep simple...last ok discharge zone dump & flush w "clean" water...close seacock...pull hose & have plug ready to install.
A little inconventient but worth it
__________________
Don
MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 02:00 AM   #47
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
Absolutely do the trip...you will love it.
Prep simple...last ok discharge zone dump & flush w "clean" water...close seacock...pull hose & have plug ready to install.
A little inconventient but worth it
If it was me, I wouldn't disconnect the hose. I would simply secure the thru hull with a zip tie or padlock and be done with it. Unless your boat is registered in that state, you only need to comply with the Fed Government regulations.

So, you get inspected and they tell you that you are breaking the law. Are they going to arrest you? Doubt it. Are they going to impound your vessel? Doubt it. Are they going to issue you a citation? Maybe, but I certainly wouldn't pay it if I wasn't a resident of the state.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 09:46 AM   #48
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,802
The black water hose restriction on Lake Champlain is no big deal to comply with, and it is well worth following because it is a beautiful cruising ground. It is one more piece of insurance to prevent waste from being discharged into the pristine waters. I made the point here a long time ago that gray water is not an issue on LC, but internet paranoia runs deep.

By the way, the very small areas of the Keys where there is no grey water dischrage are to protect the water clarity and sensitive coral.. not places you can or would camp out on or cruise over.

When it comes to protecting water quality, count me as a borderline enviro-nazi. Personally I want to boat in nice water, and preserve things like coral reefs and fresh water lakes. No sympathy here for those who want to use those waters as their personal human bodily waste sewers because it is more convenient for them.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2016, 02:08 PM   #49
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
The black water hose restriction on Lake Champlain is no big deal to comply with, and it is well worth following because it is a beautiful cruising ground. It is one more piece of insurance to prevent waste from being discharged into the pristine waters. I made the point here a long time ago that gray water is not an issue on LC, but internet paranoia runs deep.

By the way, the very small areas of the Keys where there is no grey water dischrage are to protect the water clarity and sensitive coral.. not places you can or would camp out on or cruise over.

When it comes to protecting water quality, count me as a borderline enviro-nazi. Personally I want to boat in nice water, and preserve things like coral reefs and fresh water lakes. No sympathy here for those who want to use those waters as their personal human bodily waste sewers because it is more convenient for them.
The boats are not the problem, its the science. I agree with those who say this is just a show. Until there is scientific proof that boats are the source of the pollution (most lily not) then the law need to be challenged.

For instance. I challenged the USCG Aux person who was inspecting my boat when he told me that I must have my "Y" valve secured and the circuit breaker wired in the "off" position. 33 CFR 159 "Marine Sanitation Devices" does not require this. It states

The discharge of treated sewage is allowed within 3 nautical miles of
shore except in designated “No Discharge Zone” areas (Untreated
sewage may be discharged beyond 3 nautical miles )

A “No Discharge Zone” is a body of water where the discharge of
treated or untreated sewage is prohibited. When operating a vessel
in a No Discharge Zone, the operator must secure the device in a
manner that prevents any discharge. Some acceptable methods are:
padlocking overboard discharge valves in the closed position, using
a non-releasable wire tie to hold overboard discharge valves in the
closed position, closing overboard discharge valves and removing
the handle, and locking the door to the space enclosing the toilets.
Note: these methods for preventing the overboard discharge are only
required when operating in a No Discharge Zone. State and local laws
may place further restrictions on overboard discharges.


My position with the inspector was that in the Columbia River which is NOT a "No Discharge Zone" the requirement to strap my "Y" valve and secure the circuit breaker is not required by federal law. His response to me was that the State of Washington/Oregon requires........I interrupted him and suggested that he was here to conduct a safety inspection IAW federal requirements, not state. He thought I had made a good point and would take it back to his command, I also got my sticker.

Not being on the east coast is this Lake everyone talking about, is it a federal navigable water way?
__________________

__________________
1988 M/Y Camargue Yacht Fisher
Alaskan Sea-Duction
MMSI: 338131469
Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/
Alaskan Sea-Duction is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012