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Old 05-29-2018, 11:29 AM   #1
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Grand Banks - Cummins Engines

I have an offer in on a 46 GB Europa - beautiful boat.

It has the Cummins 6CTA8.3M3 450hp (x2) - anything to be concerned about with this power plant in this boat esp heading in to the survey?

Thanks!
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Old 05-29-2018, 01:24 PM   #2
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Tons of info on these engines at:


https://www.sbmar.com/


See the tips section as well as the engine info. You can call them too.

They may know a good engine surveyor up there.
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Old 05-29-2018, 05:21 PM   #3
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Awesome boat, and by the engine description your offer is on a late model one.

I dont have Cummins engines, but I know others who have that model and have never had a bad word to say.

Good luck!

H.
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Old 05-29-2018, 05:55 PM   #4
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Had a pair of Those for Years great engines if not overloaded and properly serviced including aftetcoolers
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:45 PM   #5
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Good engine. Got one in my personal boat. Sought it out specifically, and I am in the engine business.
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Old 05-29-2018, 07:42 PM   #6
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If I were buying a boat those would be my first choice engines.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Tons of info on these engines at:


https://www.sbmar.com/


See the tips section as well as the engine info. You can call them too.

They may know a good engine surveyor up there.


What CTF said. It’s worth phoning Tony Athens,once you have your questions together. I had some general questions and he was extremely helpful.

Jim
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:11 AM   #8
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Start pre-heat can hurt your alternators, also I understand the various water coolers need regular service or they become very expensive. I have an 8CTA 8.3 M1 250 hp dry-stacked which is an excellent motor, so far very pleased with it. In fact, today I will be checking the valves.
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:42 AM   #9
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No preheat on my CTAs. They did have air heaters that only came on intermittently when running. They draw a lot of current but never harmed the alternators in 15 years. Tony Athens has discussed removing the solenoids that control the heaters but I never did. They may be helpful in cold weather but mine never smokes, any time even in winter, FL though.
After a long period of not running the alternators may not charge until the engine is reved up to 1200 or so briefly to wake them up.
180 Degree thermostats may help maintain proper operating temps in cold climates and cold sea water under low load use. They Won't affect high load temps.

I would buy those engines again in a heartbeat.
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:49 AM   #10
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Do make sure they are propped properly. Depending on model, I think those are 2600RPM engines. On the sea trial, pin the power levers. You should see AT LEAST 2600RPM and preferably 2700+. If it is less then it is overpropped. And then you have decisions to make...ref how many hours...when was the last time the prop pitch was changed....etc. My point being if it can only reach 2300RPM and there is 1500 hours on the engines, they might be at the end of their life if they have been run hard under those conditions. Other than that, Seaboard has all the info you need. Good luck!!! Great engines!
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:42 AM   #11
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"My point being if it can only reach 2300RPM and there is 1500 hours on the engines, they might be at the end of their life if they have been run hard under those conditions."

If the boat leaves a trail of black smoke it could be over propped , but if the ordinary cruise operating RPM is 1800 "only reaching 2300" at WOT is no problem and probably has extended the engine life with lower RPM operation and a better load durinf cruise.

Propping to tow water skiers at 2600 WOT only creates a requirement for higher RPM at all times below WOT.

For a displacement cruiser usually the lowest RPM that will maintain a K below "hull speed" is preferred by the occupants , and the engine.

Plaining boats like sport fish or semi displacement boats are very different.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:16 AM   #12
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FF- This 46GB is a semi planing boat, capable of about 20kts. It should be propped to reach 2700.
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post

Plaining boats like sport fish or semi displacement boats are very different.
It is a semi displacement boat capable of maintaining planing speeds.

So let's say it does only reach 2300RPM and has 1500 hours and the owner promises that he only runs it at 1600RPM for an 8 knot cruise....do you believe him????....that was my point about "having decisions to make". Do you trust the owner or do you go farther into the engine survey(ie compression check, etc.)?

Look at the 11th and 12th word of the OP's post...."Beautiful boat". A lot of emotion there!!!...emotion that could lead ot bad decisions.

By the way, I absolutely agree. I think the GB46 Europa might be the prettiest boat ever made!!!
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:00 AM   #14
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Helgerso

Are the drives straight shafts or IPS? If IPS additional questions arise.
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Old 05-31-2018, 02:28 PM   #15
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Hi all. Thank you for the thoughtful and helpful responses. The boat had an Engine survey at time of listing and ran 2600rpm without issue. The model year is before they designed the hull to plane - so will be at “trawler speed” but did achieve 17kts at 2600 rpm.

All injectors were replaced and Engine serviced.

Yes there is always emotion involved but I also do my due diligence. Thank you again!
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Old 05-31-2018, 02:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Tons of info on these engines at:


https://www.sbmar.com/


See the tips section as well as the engine info. You can call them too.
.

The weak link and most ignored feature of most diesels...the aftercoolers...are discussed at length by Tony Athens at the above link.


You should make sure that they have been removed and properly cleaned withing a reasonable time frame. Three years is the recommended time period. In other words, they should be cleaned based upon elapsed time rather than engine hours.


AND, make sure no one has tried an acid flush to save the expense of removing the system for cleaning. No manufacturer recommends putting acid or barnacle buster or any other descaler through the engine. It could cause harm and will not clean the air side of the aftercoolers.


Properly maintained Cummins are great engines.
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