Fire at Alabama Docks

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Yes that had to be a jolt to all the organs in the body but if you live thru it, It is much better than 3 degree burns over a large portion of your body, ask me how I know.

Lake Superior average surface temperature is only 55 in AUGUST when it has warmed all summer. I swim in 50 and less every day I boat (but not for long I assure you). The difference is planned immersion vs accidental. That is where the drowning occurs.

 
I know of one local covered marina, maybe 30 boats. Concrete docks, concrete roof. Now that's the way to make a covered storage. AND it is right next to a very good mom/pop seafood restaurant. No doubt, impossible to get a space. SMILE.
 
Next day photo.
 

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Someone mentioned earlier insurers having problems with such design. I wouldn't bet at all on this marina having any insurance on the property itself. I'd say on the TN river fewer than 20% have insurance on the docks.
 
Announced that four children and a 19 year old were among the dead.

Sad sad sad.
 
Announced that four children and a 19 year old were among the dead.

Sad sad sad.

Tremendously and in all the sadness will the lessons be learned. Hoping the rebuild will be very different, although wouldn't guarantee it will even be rebuilt.

Then it's what about the others similar.
 
Then it's what about the others similar.


The design of a lot of the covered slips makes me think that even with more modern construction, some significant fire protection would be a big benefit. Sense a fire on one of the boats, have sprinklers dump a ton of water on both sides of the boat and spray water sideways over the top (under the roof) with the hope of containing the fire to the boat of origin while the fire department makes their way over and the neighboring boats GTFO if possible.
 
So sad indeed. Prayers for all. We stayed at Alred's and at Ditto Landing this past fall while on a trip up to Chattanooga and back. Both newer, all metal structures with modern power stands. Columbus Marina, our home base on the TennTom, is all metal/concrete with vented roofs and modern elec. I highly recommend First Alert combo smoke/CO detectors - ones that are linked wirelessly - if one goes off, all go off. They will wake anyone.
Just read that one of the casualties was a 36yr old lady from MS that was there with a friend - died trying to help some disabled children get to safety. Sad
 
The design of a lot of the covered slips makes me think that even with more modern construction, some significant fire protection would be a big benefit. Sense a fire on one of the boats, have sprinklers dump a ton of water on both sides of the boat and spray water sideways over the top (under the roof) with the hope of containing the fire to the boat of origin while the fire department makes their way over and the neighboring boats GTFO if possible.

Well, sprinklers would be very challenging to get the fire and not the boats. However, there are some basic steps that are taken in new construction.

1. Concrete or other material other than wood.
2. Pitched top with opening in the middle for fire to rise and escape.
3. Fire pump and hose at dock. There's plenty of water available, just use it.
4. Updated electric systems on docks and on boats.
5. No space heaters allowed.
6. Any propane must be kept in fire proof locker.
7. No smoking.
8. Smoke and fire alarms on the docks themselves. This means no grilling on covered docks.

In addition there are questions as to whether any of the houseboats should be allowed on covered docks.

One topic I expect to arise and wish it wouldn't is liveaboards. However, they come in all quality and types and it's clear this marina was pretty much an anything goes marina.

Since regulations were tightened years ago on the lake we lived on in NC, there have, to my knowledge, been no new covered marinas. Several new marinas built, all open.
 
Metal piers and vented covers are all well and good, but without the additional automated fire fighting equipment previously mentioned, one fully involved boat fire means another on either side of it in a few additional seconds. Boat across from it, probably a few more seconds. Boat fires in marinas, covered or not, are like prairie fires. Sprinkler and other such systems are the best way to slow them down.
 
Well, sprinklers would be very challenging to get the fire and not the boats.


My thought was boats are capable of getting wet, so if some water hits the boats, it shouldn't be an issue. And I was thinking less of trying to put the fire out with the sprinklers and more of creating a curtain of water around the boat on fire to buy some time for the neighboring boats.
 
My thought was boats are capable of getting wet, so if some water hits the boats, it shouldn't be an issue. And I was thinking less of trying to put the fire out with the sprinklers and more of creating a curtain of water around the boat on fire to buy some time for the neighboring boats.

Aircraft carriers use this concept along with some sliding metal doors to section off parts of a flaming hangar deck containing a lot more flammable and dangerous stuff than boats in a marina. Seems like an idea that has seen its time arrive.
 
While looking for a new boat I visited several covered marinas. At one I notice a dry stand pipe fire water system, hose boxes, alarms and fire fighting systems. This would allow a fire truck to connect to the stand pipe and put water to all stations on the dock. Simple cheap and would give folks on the dock a fighting chance. Nobody has to drag hose out on the dock.
 
I have seen them too, but given the flammability of boats, I wonder if by the time a fire is noticed it isn't already too late to wait any number of minutes for fire fighters to show. I'd prefer water pressure on demand, like right NOW.
 
Six of the eight victims were from one family. Perhaps on a single boat. The six are a mother and her five children, ages 7 to 19. They also believe they may have recovered the boat where the fire started.
 
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Our condo marina with a metal roof was destroyed by fire. The fire spread to the entire fifty slip marina in less then 15 minutes once the fire started. It spread so quickly because of the hot gases and flames trapped under the roof.



When we rebuilt the marina it was constructed with a metal roof with the ridge vented, there are blow out panels installed in the roof over each slip.. These panels blow out or at about 180 degrees and comprise about 25% of the roof area over each slip. The marina is divided into smoke compartments which simply means every 4th slip has a solid partition wall covering the roof truss. The new design is to limit the spread of the hot gases. There is also a dry stand pipe that is charged from a near by hydrant, that has connections at the head, mid and end of the marina....
 
I'm sure this fire will be blamed on something that happened in the boat in question. I think whatever the direct cause, the marina merits a significant part of fault as well.
 
You'd think that someplace surrounded by water (like say, a marina) would have a simple system to draw water from the nearest source and pressurize the sprinkler system. You know, like a Honda powered water pump. Shouldn't have to wait for the FD to show up.
 
This is at Jackson County Park on Guntersville Lake on the TN River. Can't be sure using Google Earth but it appears the covered docks did not have openings or vents in the roofs as modern construction regulations require in most places.

Number of deaths still to be determined as five reported in update and at least three others missing.

Messaging all here, please look carefully at docks and also any fire protection. 35 boats destroyed would seem to indicate no on site fire pumps or hoses.
Or fire boats!
 
Problem is that once the fire is started, the dock is blocked by that boat--unless you have high water volume/pressure, you are not going to do much to knock down even a small fire. Once the fuel begins to burn, and the hull is burning--its over for that boat--if you can stand the heat--then maybe there is a chance to save other boats. Better to get the boats out if you can. We keep a very sharp, fairly heavy machete by the cabin door.

One of the small towns in SE AK had the main fire fighting system as a good sized Honda pump on trailer and an ATV to pull it. A small fire started, and someone had forgotten to replace the oil in the Honda. The entire town waterfront burned.

Fire boats are great--but where do you station them? We had a fire in a shed in Pensacola. Nearest boat with fire fighting gear was at the Coast Guard station about 8 miles away. By the time the fireboat was there, the entire shed was engulfed. The ground engines were there in minutes, but the nearest fire hydrant was about 500 feet away--hose had to be laid--by then, it was too late.
 
I'm a total non-expert here, but it seems to me that the focus should be on buying enough time for people to get out, and that anything more is optional/extra credit.


There are lots of examples of how quickly fires spread, especially in a marina. It seems that automatic sprinkers are the only thing that could react quickly enough to buy people escape time. Activating a fire boat, or a Honda pump, let along calling the fire department is just going to take too long. Those things can help prevent further spread, but I don't see them helping people escape.
 
I'm a total non-expert here, but it seems to me that the focus should be on buying enough time for people to get out, and that anything more is optional/extra credit.

There are lots of examples of how quickly fires spread, especially in a marina. It seems that automatic sprinkers are the only thing that could react quickly enough to buy people escape time. Activating a fire boat, or a Honda pump, let along calling the fire department is just going to take too long. Those things can help prevent further spread, but I don't see them helping people escape.


Agreed. The first step needs to be automatic and more than just a little bit of water. Something like firing up a Honda pump to increase the amount of water flowing as a manual second step is fine, but it can't be the first step.
 
All this talk about saving burning boats makes no sense to me. Saving people, yes, saving boats, no. We all talk about having plenty of smoke alarms on board. We do. But, how about a VERY loud fire alarm system for the docks? Sure, your on-board alarms may alert you to a fire but only after your boat is burning leaving you little time to save yourselves. As for my boat? I'll get out and file an insurance claim.
 
If easy and safe enough, no reason not to shoot for both...but never safety over property except for the pros and those with the capabilities.
 
In this situation, anything that delays the fire spreading to neighboring boats, etc. will help with both getting people out and also possibly saving property damage.
 
Let's not overlook one key element. You choose to dock in a location such as the covered slips of this fire with no venting, no fire protection, wooden docks and supports, houseboats and who knows what other issues such as faulty electric, and there's no plan that will make you safe. It's like going to an illegal Rave in an abandoned underground warehouse.

We've got all the equipment on board with alarms and extinguishers, we have escape plans, we have Advanced Firefighting courses completed and yet where and how we dock can negate all of that.

I'm sure no one realized the risks they were taking. I certainly hope those in charge of the marina didn't realize. As an individual I would have docked elsewhere or anchored or docked on their uncovered slips. As responsible boaters what should we all do? Should we appeal to the TVA to regulate or the State of Alabama? At some point, it's not enough just to accept this as a fatal accident.
 
... I'm sure no one realized the risks they were taking. I certainly hope those in charge of the marina didn't realize. As an individual I would have docked elsewhere or anchored or docked on their uncovered slips. As responsible boaters what should we all do? Should we appeal to the TVA to regulate or the State of Alabama? At some point, it's not enough just to accept this as a fatal accident.

I'm sure all those people were paying extra for the privilege of covered parking.
 
I'm sure all those people were paying extra for the privilege of covered parking.


Median household income in Jackson County $36,312



Slip rental at the park $100 to $250 /mo


Not a lot of disposable income.
 
Let's not overlook one key element. You choose to dock in a location such as the covered slips of this fire with no venting, no fire protection, wooden docks and supports, houseboats and who knows what other issues such as faulty electric, and there's no plan that will make you safe. It's like going to an illegal Rave in an abandoned underground warehouse.

We've got all the equipment on board with alarms and extinguishers, we have escape plans, we have Advanced Firefighting courses completed and yet where and how we dock can negate all of that.

I'm sure no one realized the risks they were taking. I certainly hope those in charge of the marina didn't realize. As an individual I would have docked elsewhere or anchored or docked on their uncovered slips. As responsible boaters what should we all do? Should we appeal to the TVA to regulate or the State of Alabama? At some point, it's not enough just to accept this as a fatal accident.


Not a lot of experience with TVA and Alabama Politics???
 
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