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Old 06-26-2014, 07:12 PM   #61
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Stealing is a figure of speech.
When a book price is 70-120K and it sells for 35K and had 20K of work on it recently, that might qualify. But as I always said in the car business, any deal both parties are happy with, is a great deal.
Those making the boat "books" are in the book selling business, and pull prices out of their asses to sell books to foolish lenders.. IF there were auctions for boats like there is for cars, then they would have current prices to go on, but the care and feeding of boats are such a wildcard, it's impossible to even come up with a baseline for common values, and that's before even taking the condition into consideration.
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Old 07-06-2014, 12:53 PM   #62
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>>>>>but the care and feeding of boats is such a wildcard, it's impossible to even come up with a baseline for common values, and that's before even taking the condition into consideration.,<<<<<
I was timed out to originally make the grammatical correction. Being a born and bred southerner, it takes a while to translate to normal speak. :>)
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:45 PM   #63
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Back to Boat Buying 101. One of the best thinks that comes with boating is interacting with the people who actually own boats! Both as a totally inexperienced person thinking about getting into a first boat or someone with thoughts of going full time cruising after years of weekend adventures this is your most valuable source of information! Most folks that are aboard at the local marina will be glad to offer a little gab and often a full open house of their pride and joy. And if you want to see the flip side of the joys of boat ownership spend a couple of weekends at a "Do it yourself" boat yard. Being polite and having enough knowledge to ask intelligent questions will open up the data base of those actually living the dream/nightmare of yacht ownership. The Captain will be overjoyed to explain about how economical his diesels are after recently spending more on fuel and dockage in Key West than it would have cost to stay at the Presidential Suite at the Casa Marina including a hooker for the week. And the Admiral will keep the little woman enchanted with tales of how the all electric galley might look "just like your kitchen at home" but is in fact a cruel joke because something called the "Westerbeke" has refused to operate except when tied to the dock with an expensive service man on board. These are the folks that will ultimately let you "Steal" their boat. JUST KIDDING! These boat people will tell you the good, bad and ugly and also admit that buying the boat was the best thing that they ever did.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:14 AM   #64
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Hey gang, if ya wanna banter specific boats, people and situations please start a discussion thread. This is a sticky thread for dispensing boat buying advice in a general way.
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Old 11-21-2014, 10:19 PM   #65
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I gotta chime in. Good thread. However,,,,I tried to get to know people at the marinas and was met with stares and glares, like Who is this guy casing our marina. I never met a person that was willing to even talk. They were too busy washing and waxing and doing chores. I knew I was holding them up and hated that fact. I offered to help them. Nope nothing doing. I got on some websites and people talked a bunch of nonsense and I have found that most people just couch cruise and really dont cruise. I wanted a blue water sail boat and nobody was telling me any different. That is until I lived on one for 5 months. I hated it. I hit my head on everything on that 40ft transworld of a formosa. I ended up with a 43' Hatteras with a sundeck. 100% 180 degree out. Of course the Admiral was behind some of that. Now I know tons of people who live in the marina and own boats. I must say the trawler forum and the Hatteras owners forum are very good resources. Most people are pretty bias in some sort of ways. Just ask them about what anchor is the best, or which batteries for their house bank. Point is I think you can over research things and read too much. I read for 4 yrs before we made that leap. I still went in blind. The things I thought I knew I really didnt know and some things I just changed my mind all together when I actually started cruising. Its unfortunate but its a trail by fire thing buying a boat. There are no perfect boats. Most of them float and people usually have a good time and make memories with them what ever they buy. Just go do it. Buy one and start cruising.
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:48 AM   #66
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Some times the hard part is sorting out the difference between what you need and what you want. Also it is often difficult to be honest with yourself about how you are actually going to use the boat vs an embellished imagination. The ideal is to find a boat well matched to its use pattern as a boat and as a living accommodation that coincidently fits your budget for buying and maintaining..
BAM!!!! This is a very important point and I think some of the best advice on this thread....although all of it is damn good!

I call it the difference between perception and reality. The closer those two principles are, the more successful your boat purchase will be. THE absolute number one reason why there are marinas full of unused boats all across the country is this!!! They thought the boat was "this"....but in reality, it was "that"....and they didn't really like "that".....so the boat sits unused.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:59 AM   #67
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Some times the hard part is sorting out the difference between what you need and what you want. Also it is often difficult to be honest with yourself about how you are actually going to use the boat vs an embellished imagination. The ideal is to find a boat well matched to its use pattern as a boat and as a living accommodation that coincidently fits your budget for buying and maintaining..


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BAM!!!! This is a very important point and I think some of the best advice on this thread....although all of it is damn good!

I call it the difference between perception and reality. The closer those two principles are, the more successful your boat purchase will be. THE absolute number one reason why there are marinas full of unused boats all across the country is this!!! They thought the boat was "this"....but in reality, it was "that"....and they didn't really like "that".....so the boat sits unused.
You guys hit nails squarely on the head!

From speaking with some who rarely ever visit their boats... I believe the most pervasive Fantasy Perception - vs - Reality Difference that people run into once actually owning a boat is simply "TIME" and "EFFORT"

Fantasy Perception of "TIME" and "EFFORT": Purchasers feel they will buy into the majestic dream of owning/using a boat and have plenty of time to go out and enjoy it. They also have some foggy notion that the boat will always be in OK condition with little need for their (or expensive others) effort to keep it that way.

Reality Difference of "TIME" and "EFFORT": Once boat is owned the buyer is so happy and immediately uses the boat on one to a few or even several occasions. Then the reality of how much time it takes away from other life events sets in. Soon all the maintenance and care, not to mention flat-out difficult repair effort becomes clearly evident, i.e. “…that previous foggy notion that the boat will always be in OK condition with little need for their (or expensive others) effort to keep it that way” - evaporates.

Point in fact:

Besides the well over 75% of all boats at out marina NEVER being used… this one is a classic example of Fantasy Perception - vs - Reality Difference!

Early 2000’s a couple purchased a brand-new boat. 27’ with twin I/O’s and some overnight accommodations. They used it four +/- times for day jaunts in SF Delta. Then docked it and they virtually disappeared. Heard they visit to look at boat at dock maybe a couple times a year and pay a service to clean it once a year.

So here comes the real clincher on this case’s Fantasy Perception - vs - Reality Difference! A few days before a big holiday weekend in 2014 this couple called the marina and said they wanted marina mechanics to ready their boat for the big weekend. I spoke with marina attendant. He said – First we have little time and our schedule is booked. Secondly we did go look at the boat and besides dead batteries, it’s corroded carburetors need replacing as well as gas tanks drained, cleaned, refilled. Can just imagine other problems that would show-up. Told the owners sorry but no way we can do this on such short notice; your boat needs several days work and expensive parts to get it going.

Well, obviously the owners over a decade-long Fantasy of their boat’s usability therein again evaporated into the Reality of OMG our boat that we paid $100K for and $6K to $8K annually for 13 years to keep is useless!

So… far as I know they still own the boat, but, it just sits.

One other point – Last registration sticker on it is 2009. Many many non-used boats all over are way past registration date. Just imagine the use fees and registration costs built up on some of these “floating planters”

“Use It – or – Lose It”!, is a good saying for pleasure boats! Maybe a bit better in this premise of pleasure boating: “Use It – or – Wish Ta Fck You Could Lose IT!!

Happy Boat-Use Daze! - Art
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:46 AM   #68
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A good example we just ran into. Someone bought a 100' boat and intends to operate it with just he and his wife, no paid crew. That's not going to be boating, that's going to be crewing. Just routine maintenance and simple things like washing it down after use. One person commented that if they're going to do that, why buy a boat. Why not just get a job on one as crew.

We know our own personal limitation and what we can enjoy. We're both 200 Ton Masters but there is no way we could enjoy a 100' boat with no crew. We didn't get into boating to be mechanics and deck hands.

It's just like weather which none of us can predict. If you depend on it being good and you being able to stick to your schedule, then you're going to be very disappointed. I remember us getting stuck for a week on the gulf coast, in the Destin, Panama City and Pensacola area. We stayed inside the waterway for the week, explored those areas and had a tremendously enjoyable time. But if we'd just brooded over not being able to keep to our schedule we would have been miserable. It's corny, but boaters must be capable of turning lemons into lemonade.
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:26 PM   #69
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Art

A good example we just ran into. Someone bought a 100' boat and intends to operate it with just he and his wife, no paid crew. That's not going to be boating, that's going to be crewing. Just routine maintenance and simple things like washing it down after use. One person commented that if they're going to do that, why buy a boat. Why not just get a job on one as crew.

We know our own personal limitation and what we can enjoy. We're both 200 Ton Masters but there is no way we could enjoy a 100' boat with no crew. We didn't get into boating to be mechanics and deck hands.

It's just like weather which none of us can predict. If you depend on it being good and you being able to stick to your schedule, then you're going to be very disappointed. I remember us getting stuck for a week on the gulf coast, in the Destin, Panama City and Pensacola area. We stayed inside the waterway for the week, explored those areas and had a tremendously enjoyable time. But if we'd just brooded over not being able to keep to our schedule we would have been miserable. It's corny, but boaters must be capable of turning lemons into lemonade.
Uuuuhhhhh.....Mr. and Mrs. B, I wise person once told me, "Cruising is doing maintenance on your boat in exotic locales. Yachting is having other people do maintenance on your boat in exotic locales!". I think y'all might be yachting!!!!....
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:31 PM   #70
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Art

A good example we just ran into. Someone bought a 100' boat and intends to operate it with just he and his wife, no paid crew. That's not going to be boating, that's going to be crewing. Just routine maintenance and simple things like washing it down after use. One person commented that if they're going to do that, why buy a boat. Why not just get a job on one as crew.

We know our own personal limitation and what we can enjoy. We're both 200 Ton Masters but there is no way we could enjoy a 100' boat with no crew. We didn't get into boating to be mechanics and deck hands.

It's just like weather which none of us can predict. If you depend on it being good and you being able to stick to your schedule, then you're going to be very disappointed. I remember us getting stuck for a week on the gulf coast, in the Destin, Panama City and Pensacola area. We stayed inside the waterway for the week, explored those areas and had a tremendously enjoyable time. But if we'd just brooded over not being able to keep to our schedule we would have been miserable. It's corny, but boaters must be capable of turning lemons into lemonade.
Upon reading your [now bolded by me] statement... I immediately call our dear Ms. Tolly - ya know, our beloved and utilized boat. Luckily she was awake at dock and taking calls today. When I told her what you said... dead silence fell over the phone... so, after brief interim, I nervously asked "Ms. Tolly" are you OK?? Luckily there was no problem and she immediately said: Well, you boaters think you have it tough turning lemons into lemonade... just think what we boats need to do while turning rough seas into pleasurable rides for you folks! Then she added; I wish you'd call management at our marina, some jerk finger-dock fisher left a fish on the main dock and it's beginning to stink!

It's always great when owners' relationships with their boat get so close that confab is just a phone call away. A few days ago, Linda spoke with our Ms. Tolly; I noticed her face blush pink... I can just imagine what those gals say to each other!

Some fantasies about boats can become good too!

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Old 02-15-2015, 08:04 AM   #71
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Two questions if I may... 1) who/where did u charter the 42 kady krogen from? 2) What other forums did u find useful? Thx
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:36 PM   #72
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One thing I don't see in any of the discussions here is MONEY. Now I may be an outlier on this forum, but money is a factor in any boat I buy. By money I am talking about both purchase price and operating/maintenance costs. I think the first decision you have to make in buying a boat is how much do you want to spend and how much can you afford to spend going forward on owning the boat.

I would suggest considering your finances as the first step. How much you can afford to spend will place significant limits on the boats that are available to you. Once you make the money decision, you need to decide on where you will be using the boat. That can impact the geographical range of your search. Buying a boat 1,500 miles away from where you intend us it generates significant additional costs (travel during the buying process, moving the boat after purchase). Those costs come off the top of your purchase price figure. For example, my next boat purchase will be for a boat to use in Puget Sound. So I will restrict my search to Puget Sound.

Once you have decided on the money and geographical limitations on your search, I think the next step is to spend quite a bit of time looking at what is available in your price and location range. With that information you can start applying criteria like those discussed in this thread.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:09 PM   #73
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One thing I don't see in any of the discussions here is MONEY. Now I may be an outlier on this forum, but money is a factor in any boat I buy. By money I am talking about both purchase price and operating/maintenance costs. I think the first decision you have to make in buying a boat is how much do you want to spend and how much can you afford to spend going forward on owning the boat.

I would suggest considering your finances as the first step. How much you can afford to spend will place significant limits on the boats that are available to you. Once you make the money decision, you need to decide on where you will be using the boat. That can impact the geographical range of your search. Buying a boat 1,500 miles away from where you intend us it generates significant additional costs (travel during the buying process, moving the boat after purchase). Those costs come off the top of your purchase price figure. For example, my next boat purchase will be for a boat to use in Puget Sound. So I will restrict my search to Puget Sound.

Once you have decided on the money and geographical limitations on your search, I think the next step is to spend quite a bit of time looking at what is available in your price and location range. With that information you can start applying criteria like those discussed in this thread.
Very true. No different than buying a car or a house. When looking for a house, you don't go into MLS and look at every available house. You focus on a price range. A good approach just to familiarize oneself is to go into yachtworld and enter a size and a price range and just look through it and get an idea of the type boats available. In just gathering information I wouldn't limit locations. But then when thinking of buying you may want to. Also after educating yourself that way every time you go to the water you can look around and think about the boats you see. You might say to yourself, "Now that's a type boat that might interest me" or "I love that boat but I'd have to get a much older model to fit my price range."
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:50 AM   #74
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Greetings,
Mr. BB is correct in post #73 but might I suggest if using YW that you set your upper limit 25% higher than what you are budgeting. You may miss out on finding "your" boat which is listed higher than but will eventually be sold in your price range.
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:38 AM   #75
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Greetings,
Mr. BB is correct in post #73 but might I suggest if using YW that you set your upper limit 25% higher than what you are budgeting. You may miss out on finding "your" boat which is listed higher than but will eventually be sold in your price range.
Good suggestion as prices on YF are asking and in some case fantasizing and often are quite negotiable.
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:41 AM   #76
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I thought the price point was assumed.

One thing you must consider is your marina and slip fees. I know that was mentioned but the reason I'm saying it here is because where I am the slip fees run from 10.00 a foot to 35.00 a foot. The upper priced marinas have a spa, tennis court and other amenities you might or might not want.

On a 40' boat that is a 1000.00 difference, if you get away for only paying for 40'. Marinas charge for everything that sticks out in front or back and a 40' boat will usually eat up a 45' slip, which is rare, so they'll stick you in a 50' and charge you for all 50'.

Doing your homework will save you in the long run.
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:49 AM   #77
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Just about whatever you figure for "annual" boat expenses (after purchase that is) I'd advise adding 10 to 15% on top... and that may not cover ALL your needs.
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:26 PM   #78
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With cost in mind, a lot of people want the biggest bang for their buck. Bigger is by far and away not better. You don't want to buy a master that makes you it's slave. Buy the smallest that you know would make you comfortable and meet your needs. If you are contemplating a second berth, get a boat that has one. After finding this perfect boat if you have money burning a hole in your pocket, then buy the same boat only younger.
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:17 PM   #79
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I don't want a boat that I can't handle by myself (if it comes to that) or fix using the skills I have. The bigger the boat, the more complex the systems and the more fuel it will burn. Face it, fuel prices will eventually get to the point that running a 10' Whaler with an outboard will be too costly.

Having to pay someone to drive or manage my boat is just something I find to be ridiculous.

I've seen a number of boats where a trip on them involves going 100 yards off the dock and dropping anchor because they are too expensive to operate more than that.
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:20 PM   #80
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I just read this post. Having cruised for four plus years full time, your ininerary sound more exhausting than pleasurable. We spend six months in the Chesapeake alone (over two trips) and still feel that we can spend another year there before we see most of it. Like you said, your idea of a fun trip won't be for everyone.
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