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Old 01-08-2016, 11:33 PM   #1
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Black Smoke - John Deer Engines

All of a sudden (in somewhat colder than normal weather) we have had black smoke come out of our exhausts when under full load. We are being told that our props might not be set up properly (pitch, etc.). Being very much mechanically challenged, I am hoping that somebody might be able to shed some light on this for me. We've never had the smoke problem before; but then, we've never operated the boat in cold weather.
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:39 PM   #2
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Are the engines turbo charged?
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:47 PM   #3
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we have had black smoke come out of our exhausts when under full load.



Both engines???????????
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Old 01-09-2016, 12:23 AM   #4
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Yes. Exhaust is from both engines.
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Old 01-09-2016, 12:25 AM   #5
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Yes. The engines are turbo charged.
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Old 01-09-2016, 12:25 AM   #6
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Can only be fuel ?
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Old 01-09-2016, 01:45 AM   #7
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Full load, what specifically do you mean? Normal cruise rpm OR did you push the throttle all the way for max. rpm [WOT]? If full rpm , WOT, then have you done that before? What were the results before? What rpm was reached.?

By suddenly do you mean BETWEEN this run and the last run OR do you mean while you were out on this run and all of a sudden they started black smoking?

Cold weather should have no effect except to increase air from cooler, denser air, which the engine should like. Diesels like all the air they can get unlike gas engines.
.
Black smoke can be caused by several problems. It is almost always either overload or lack of air.
OVERLOAD
-props incorrect
-props fouled or damaged
-fouled bottom
-too much added weight which sneaks up compared to the way the boat was when new[er].

Since this happened suddenly and to both engines [ is that correct???] then I doubt the props are wrong but they could have been fouled by a line or seaweed. Not big enough to stall the engines but it would goof up the normal water flow and add a lot of load. Try a diver and get the props checked for fouling.

LACK OF AIR
-air filters, turbo, aftercooler, exhaust system,

Have you looked in the engine compartment.? At the air filters? If they are dirty that will cause insufficient air for the engines and black smoke. If you have an exhaust leak that will allow soot to plug the filters and that plugging can be quite quick. Soot should be quite noticeable. Regardless, Try changing the filters. It may be that plugging , if that is the case, reached a point where you noticed especially if you ran the engine a bit harder than normal. If this is the case then eventually it would have made itself known even at lower rpm.

I suggest checking/cahnging the air filter first since they are relatively cheap to replace and should be little effort. Also the diver as he/she too will be relatively cheap.
Some of the other things are going to take some work to do and some, possibly serious, expense to find and sort out.


Report back what you check and do.
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Old 01-09-2016, 03:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C lectric View Post
Full load, what specifically do you mean? Normal cruise rpm OR did you push the throttle all the way for max. rpm [WOT]? If full rpm , WOT, then have you done that before? What were the results before? What rpm was reached.?

By suddenly do you mean BETWEEN this run and the last run OR do you mean while you were out on this run and all of a sudden they started black smoking?

Cold weather should have no effect except to increase air from cooler, denser air, which the engine should like. Diesels like all the air they can get unlike gas engines.
.
Black smoke can be caused by several problems. It is almost always either overload or lack of air.
OVERLOAD
-props incorrect
-props fouled or damaged
-fouled bottom

-too much added weight which sneaks up compared to the way the boat was when new[er].

Since this happened suddenly and to both engines [ is that correct???] then I doubt the props are wrong but they could have been fouled by a line or seaweed. Not big enough to stall the engines but it would goof up the normal water flow and add a lot of load. Try a diver and get the props checked for fouling.

LACK OF AIR
-air filters, turbo, aftercooler, exhaust system,

Have you looked in the engine compartment.? At the air filters? If they are dirty that will cause insufficient air for the engines and black smoke. If you have an exhaust leak that will allow soot to plug the filters and that plugging can be quite quick. Soot should be quite noticeable. Regardless, Try changing the filters. It may be that plugging , if that is the case, reached a point where you noticed especially if you ran the engine a bit harder than normal. If this is the case then eventually it would have made itself known even at lower rpm.

I suggest checking/cahnging the air filter first since they are relatively cheap to replace and should be little effort. Also the diver as he/she too will be relatively cheap.
Some of the other things are going to take some work to do and some, possibly serious, expense to find and sort out.


Report back what you check and do.
+1

Go through these actions and you should resolve the problem. Key questions in red. This time was there full tanks of fuel/water, lots of stuff and people on board?
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:38 AM   #9
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Black smoke is more fuel than there is air to burn.

Overload is one possibility , a bad air intake or cleaner,a failed turbo or bad injectors will cause the same smoke.
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:53 AM   #10
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........ bad air intake or cleaner,a failed turbo or bad injectors will cause the same smoke.
True, but what are the odds of those things happening to both engines at the same time?
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:54 AM   #11
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Crap fuel will damage a High Pressure injection setup very rapidly if the filtering system is not 100%.

Do they have "summer " or "winter " blends of fuel where you are , perhaps there is a difference?

Does the smoke go away if the engine room is open?
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Old 01-09-2016, 08:54 AM   #12
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Are you sure your bottom and props are clean?
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Old 01-09-2016, 09:10 AM   #13
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Second that about fouled props and bottom. Absolutely the FIRST thing on the list to check.
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Old 01-09-2016, 09:17 AM   #14
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yes the absolute first thing to check is bottom and prop cleanliness.
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Old 01-09-2016, 11:10 AM   #15
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Since cold temps is a complaint, I would check engine operating temperature (thermostats) and make sure they can get up to "operating temperature". Cold diesel engines smoke very black smoke due to incomplete combustion. It can't combust well due the glow plugs not getting hot enough to ignite the fuel cleanly

Stu
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Old 01-09-2016, 02:04 PM   #16
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While it is fun to spend time on the Miami, La Perouse and other Marin-izing threads, it's ones like this that are the backbone of this site. Every one of you posting here has added to my own mental KB.
Thanks.
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Old 01-09-2016, 02:11 PM   #17
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The only thing coming out of my John Deere's exhaust port is water and clear air. Haven't yet needed to outrun a mega-shark, however. (Engine is naturally-aspirated and bottom is inspected at least annually.)
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Old 01-10-2016, 06:58 AM   #18
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"Cold diesel engines smoke very black smoke due to incomplete combustion. It can't combust well due the glow plugs not getting hot enough to ignite the fuel cleanly"

Sorry,

Cold diesels that are just started or are not up to temp will exhaust WHITE smoke , which is unburned fuel.

A very good po boy check of engine compression is what coolant temp is needed to see the white smoke fade away.

Engines with pre-combustion chambers usually need glow plugs to START ,
but they do not usually operate while the engine is operating .

BLACK smoke is fuel that attempted to burn but was air limited

Bucky Balls.
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Old 01-10-2016, 10:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
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A very good po boy check of engine compression is what coolant temp is needed to see the white smoke fade away.
And the survey sez...what temp would that be Bucky?
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Old 01-10-2016, 10:22 AM   #20
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It can't combust well due the glow plugs not getting hot enough to ignite the fuel cleanly

Stu
As said above glow plugs are for starting only, and some engines don't have them. My old Yanmar and the 2-stroke Detroits come to mind. There are others.
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