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Old 04-15-2017, 05:57 PM   #1
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Cool Basics on a passage-maker?

This question is just for discussion about ideas.

What do you choose as an absolute basic item/design for a modern passage-maker?

I don't know how many members here have crossed oceans, as an owner, or a passenger. I am sure there are some.
So, if you had the option to choose, order/build, a salty boat for crossings, how would look like, what would it have to have? Let's peel off the luxury, the needs of the Admiral, the dream toys. Let's just go with the very basics. Hull, engine, aux., electric/nav/comm., deck equipment, survival, standard accommodation, food storage.

All opinion is welcome and appreciated.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:10 PM   #2
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A water maker.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:24 PM   #3
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Passagemaker

Look at Nordhavn 46 as a good start. While not bare bones basics they represent the hull shape and capacities you may need. With this boat you start adding or possibly subtracting items.

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Old 04-15-2017, 07:51 PM   #4
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:02 PM   #5
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:39 PM   #6
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Is this a one time adventure or a lifestyle? Think what you can make work is very different from doing it regularly. Assuming this will be done some what regularly and you will eventually encounter storms and breakdowns, here is my list:

Steel hull
Multiple watertight compartments.
A true collision bulkhead
Twin engines with one being able to make 7 knots
Probably 60'+
Flush deck design with bulwarks in the bow
Stabilizers of some sort
6,000 mile range at designed cruising speed

Ted
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by N4061 View Post
Look at Nordhavn 46 as a good start. While not bare bones basics they represent the hull shape and capacities you may need. With this boat you start adding or possibly subtracting items.

John T
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In my thoughts, a Nordhavn 46 is really too small. I'm not sure we've really defined passagemaker, but I would never attempt to cross the Atlantic in an N46. If I was going to try, I'd definitely have stabilizers.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:54 PM   #8
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A cruise ship, with all the comfort and professional seamanship so one can sleep without worry.



On small-boat trans-oceanic voyages, does crew get enough sleep?
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:55 PM   #9
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The Nordhavn 46 line of boats has crossed many an ocean and several circumnavigations. The Krogen 42 has also crossed oceans. Larger boats the 48s, and 54s, etc all the way up to the 62s of these lines have crossed multiple oceans.

They are still fiberglass boats with single engines (rather low powered) so that they have long ranges. Stabilizers, active or passive are highly useful. Most have watermakers although for an ocean crossing the normal tankage would be sufficient 300 to 600 US gallons.

The Diesel Ducks, Willards and DeFevers all are similarly capable boats although there are not as many of them.

While you certainly can design much more capable boats for ocean crossing than those mentioned you are not talking about a production boat but a one-off.

Clearly a steel hull would reduce the damage if you hit a submerged object at sea, but what is the real likelihood of that happening. Many of the other improvements we can name also have just a small increase in safety.

Anyway, the Nordhavn 46 has reigned as the ocean crosser since it was first produced. In part because the newer boats, the Nordhavn 47, etc have not sold in the same numbers.
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:41 PM   #10
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A cruise ship, with all the comfort and professional seamanship so one can sleep without worry.



On small-boat trans-oceanic voyages, does crew get enough sleep?
Best answer yet!
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:44 PM   #11
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The Nordhavn 46 line of boats has crossed many an ocean and several circumnavigations..
I understand it has. Some of those more pleasant crossings than others. For some, it's the perfect ocean crossing vessel. The OP was looking for various opinions and it would not be for me. I don't go quite as far as Mark in minimum size.

Answering Mark's question on sleep, it depends on how many people. I wouldn't cross the Atlantic with less than a crew of 4. Again, I know many do it with fewer.
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Old 04-15-2017, 10:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Is this a one time adventure or a lifestyle? Think what you can make work is very different from doing it regularly. Assuming this will be done some what regularly and you will eventually encounter storms and breakdowns, here is my list:

Steel hull
Multiple watertight compartments.
A true collision bulkhead
Twin engines with one being able to make 7 knots
Probably 60'+
Flush deck design with bulwarks in the bow
Stabilizers of some sort
6,000 mile range at designed cruising speed

Ted
Ha....That's on my list and definitely a tough find...most boats in that size don't have the fuel capacity for 6000 NM..Not even most Nordy's and I agree with Ted...for a liveaboard ocean crossing vessel I wouldn't go smaller than 60ft.

Ch
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:59 AM   #13
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A cruise ship, with all the comfort and professional seamanship so one can sleep without worry.
Sure, and you can sit in a helicopter for a ride to the top of El Capitan or you can climb the face
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Old 04-16-2017, 03:51 AM   #14
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I`ll take the cruise ship too.
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Old 04-16-2017, 03:53 AM   #15
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...for a liveaboard ocean crossing vessel I wouldn't go smaller than 60ft.

Ch
My Krogen 54 is a very comfortable live aboard boat. Although only 8 were made at least one has crossed an ocean:

Krogen 54 Horizons across the Atlantic - Trawlers & Trawlering

I hope to cross oceans in mine one day.

The Krogen 54 hull design is very similar to the Nordhavn 46. Mine was built one year before the first N46 was launched.

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Old 04-16-2017, 05:19 AM   #16
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Basics on a passage-maker?

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Originally Posted by LeoKa View Post
What do you choose as an absolute basic item/design for a modern passage-maker?... Let's peel off the luxury, the needs of the Admiral, the dream toys. Let's just go with the very basics.


It's truly amazing the different perspectives in the answers here versus what you would get on a sailboat cruisers forum - which would most likely be a 30ft sailboat that keeps out water and is equipped with a sextant.



Here it is 60ft with a watermaker and 6000 mile range at 11 knots - not including the cruise ship of course
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Old 04-16-2017, 07:09 AM   #17
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"Hull, engine, aux., electric/nav/comm., deck equipment, survival, standard accommodation, food storage."

To me the key would be the parts selection for quality and long life not initial price.

Industrial grade engine & tranny, mostly commercial not yacht grade equipment but the key would be in the design.

With a big budget I would use a Navy style tandem tranny with a NA diesel as power and the noisemaker as backup. CCP for propulsion.

The fuel tanks would have a bailable sump and I would still install a fuel centrifuge and a day tank.

The toilet would be RV head mounted over the tank.

Ships AC electric would come from a hyd pump on the main as well as a pump on the noisemaker.

The noisemaker would have a hyd prop , as well as a hyd motor to run the shaft with a chain drive, if not on a tandem tranny.

Boat hoist, windlass ,BIG bilge pump and other goodies would also use hyd.

Refrigeration,freezer would use eutetic plates , set for 4 days between power needs.

Sun covers fore and aft would be in the initial concept from the NA, and the boat would ventilate well with no power requirements.

Hand rails and grips would be in any open space you do not care to fly across.

Std flopper stoppers require little maint , stabilizing fins in addition if the budget allows.

The stabilizers would be installed as bilge keels ,not fins so the boat could live in high tidal areas easily.

If the vessel were larger the engine room would be forward as best use of space.

Even industrial diesels are light enough today to gain the space advantages of a Fwd ER.

There would be little extra expense or complication as a CCP has a thrust bearing in a normal install.

A few ideas to chew on. Have fun.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:35 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by makobuilders View Post
It's truly amazing the different perspectives in the answers here versus what you would get on a sailboat cruisers forum - which would most likely be a 30ft sailboat that keeps out water and is equipped with a sextant.

Here it is 60ft with a watermaker and 6000 mile range at 11 knots - not including the cruise ship of course
I agree with you 100%. There are many boats that can cross oceans. In the end it's more about the skipper. I think the ones who have a long list of requirements that they could never meet are the ones that are never going to skipper any boat across an ocean. Then there's Richard on Dauntless - a Krogen 42.

I know that my boat can cross oceans. If I don't end up crossing one then it'll be all about me and not the boat.

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Old 04-16-2017, 01:53 PM   #19
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Britannia (Richard) beat me to it but. I was going to mention our very own Richard on board Dauntless. His threads have chronicled his journey across the Atlantic, back and beyond. If you search on "Dauntless" you will see his entries, the latest of which is transiting the Panama Canal.

I also just saw an interview with him in the May 2017 issue of Power & Motoryacht magazine.

Marty........................
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:20 PM   #20
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I agree with you 100%. There are many boats that can cross oceans. In the end it's more about the skipper. I think the ones who have a long list of requirements that they could never meet are the ones that are never going to skipper any boat across an ocean. Then there's Richard on Dauntless - a Krogen 42.

I know that my boat can cross oceans. If I don't end up crossing one then it'll be all about me and not the boat.

Richard
Charles Lindbergh flew the Spirit of St. Louis (single person, singe engine airplane) across the Ocean, once. People take 15' center consoles with one outboard, to the Bahamas from Florida. There are a lot of things you can do once, and the law of probability says your likely to get away with it, once. If you're buying a boat specifically to cross oceans, the assumption is you plan to do it more than once. That's where the law of probability says it becomes more likely something will go wrong. So, I don't want one that can, I want one that was designed to.

Ted
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