Why switch to fresh water toilets ?

[Comodave]

We replaced our 20YO Vacuflush toilet (and vacuum generator) and sanitation hoses today -- with Marine Elegance and Sani-flex. Really interesting that you ran new 1" hoses inside the existing 1.5" ones...I'm guessing they were not permeated? Our boat didn't stink per se...it was manageable with weekly pumpouts and Happy Campers or Noflex or Unique Marine Digest-It... but there was a funky odor at times under the floor hatches. What a pleasure to step aboard today and only get a whiff of new hoses!

Question: we have about a 10' run from the toilet to the holding tank. How many seconds of flushing will it take to clear the 1.5" line?

Really looking forward to using this new system next season!

The original hoses were in good condition. But relatively inaccessible so I used them as a chase. Your 10’ of 1.5” hose will hold almost 1 gallon of water. My 36’ of 1” holds about 1.5 gallons. It takes about 2 regular flushes to get water coming out of the hose into the tank. We don’t flush the hose clean unless we put solids in it. For liquid flush we just use 1 short flush cycle. A regular flush cycle is actually 3 short flushes. Based on our tests it looks like a regular flush is about.75 gallons. When we installed the ME head and 36’ of 1” hose I was by the holding tank and my wife flushed the head 2 regular flushes, 3 short flushes each time, before water started running into the holding tank. Then when we are done using the boat or going to pump out the holding tank we do a bunch of flushes to keep the hose clean. We also put in a spoonful of sodium perconate each day to help keep the holding tank oxygenated and keep the smell down. We don’t use any other chemicals but I did install 2 1.5” vents, one to each side of the boat to promote oxygenation.

 

[nwh10]

FWIW, we clear the bowl and then at the end of trip we give it a 30 sec long flush. But we are using 1 inch hose. You probably need 1 minute min to clear 1/5 inch. If you clear each flush you are using up the fresh water and filling the holding tank much faster.

Thanks...I'm mostly interested in clearing the hoses of serious waste.

 

[nwh10]

The original hoses were in good condition. But relatively inaccessible so I used them as a chase. Your 10’ of 1.5” hose will hold almost 1 gallon of water. My 36’ of 1” holds about 1.5 gallons. It takes about 2 regular flushes to get water coming out of the hose into the tank. We don’t flush the hose clean unless we put solids in it. For liquid flush we just use 1 short flush cycle. A regular flush cycle is actually 3 short flushes. Based on our tests it looks like a regular flush is about.75 gallons. When we installed the ME head and 36’ of 1” hose I was by the holding tank and my wife flushed the head 2 regular flushes, 3 short flushes each time, before water started running into the holding tank. Then when we are done using the boat or going to pump out the holding tank we do a bunch of flushes to keep the hose clean. We also put in a spoonful of sodium perconate each day to help keep the holding tank oxygenated and keep the smell down. We don’t use any other chemicals but I did install 2 1.5” vents, one to each side of the boat to promote oxygenation.

Our hoses had a lot of difficult access. Using them as a chase would have been great, but they had to go. Thanks for doing the math on the hose for me. What a good idea to test how long it takes water to get to the holding tank. Appreciate your tips on your various techniques. We deleted the charcoal vent -- too difficult to access -- but did not increase the venting during this project. Thought we'd see how it goes. The layout prevents us from running nice straight vent lines.

I can see you've been through the Peggie school of sanitation system replacement and maintenance, too. This is the third boat in 27 years that she's coached me on.

 

[Wtrguy]

Question: we have about a 10' run from the toilet to the holding tank. How many seconds of flushing will it take to clear the 1.5" line?

1.5" ID pipe would hold .367 gal/ft. 10' would be 3.67 gal. What is the gpm rating on the head?

 

[Don L]

just a note

When I switched to a fancy electric head I also switched to fresh water flush. The only real reason was that it was less expensive and easier to do by not having to install a seawater pump.

 

[Shrew]

FWIW, we clear the bowl and then at the end of trip.

We do the same. Flush freshwater back until the line is completely freshwater. Then get the tank pumped out. We only do this prior to each pump out. We pump out before we leave the boat for more than 3 days, or at the end of every trip.

 

[Comodave]

Our hoses had a lot of difficult access. Using them as a chase would have been great, but they had to go. Thanks for doing the math on the hose for me. What a good idea to test how long it takes water to get to the holding tank. Appreciate your tips on your various techniques. We deleted the charcoal vent -- too difficult to access -- but did not increase the venting during this project. Thought we'd see how it goes. The layout prevents us from running nice straight vent lines.

I can see you've been through the Peggie school of sanitation system replacement and maintenance, too. This is the third boat in 27 years that she's coached me on.

Yes, getting rid of the vent filter is a very good thing. It will inhibit air flow. I originally had the small 5/8” vent with a vent filter. But the filter has never been replaced since it is so far out of reach. So I just left it there and added 2 1.5” vents to the tank. One to each side of the boat so no matter which way the wind is blowing I will get air flow through the tank. Along with the sodium perconate it keeps the stink out of the tank.

 

[Dockmaster]

I got rid of my vacuflush system and installed the Raritan Elegance macerating units. They are great. I added the option of switching between fresh and sea water. We use fresh water while at the dock or on short day trips. I switch to sea water when out on multi-day trips. It's amazing how much less fresh water we use when the toilets are on sea water. I almost never have to run the watermaker any more, even on 4-5 day trips.

 

[nwh10]

1.5" ID pipe would hold .367 gal/ft. 10' would be 3.67 gal. What is the gpm rating on the head?

Well, aren't you aptly named for this thread about water usage!
Thanks for calculating the volume...I shouldn't have been so lazy!
I haven't found a specific gpm rating, but the installation instructions stipulate minimum flow rate of 3 gpm. Our freshwater pump is rated for 3.5 gpm, so if I assume 3 gpm, it would take about 1.25 minutes of running the water to clear the line. I think this will be reserved for flushing solids and at the end of a weekend if not pumping out before leaving the boat. We have plenty of fresh water, but the holding tank is only 28 gal, so something to keep in mind. We do have a tank monitor.

 

[Comodave]

1.5" ID pipe would hold .367 gal/ft. 10' would be 3.67 gal. What is the gpm rating on the head?

The calculator I am using shows .918 gallons for 10’ of 1.5” hose. Actually I checked 2 different calculators and they both came up with this answer.

 

[nwh10]

The calculator I am using shows .918 gallons for 10’ of 1.5” hose. Actually I checked 2 different calculators and they both came up with this answer.

Even better. I'll go along with that.

V = 21.2 cu in/ft
Convert cubic inches to gallons (231 cu in/gal)
21.2/231 = .092 gal/ft

(I think the error in post #19 was squaring the diameter instead of the radius...oops, been there, done that.)

So the 10' hose run holds .92 gal and I only have to run the water for 20 seconds or so. Much better!

 

[Comodave]

I used to teach trig for electronics but I no longer do much math, just use the online calculators.

 

[Wtrguy]

The calculator I am using shows .918 gallons for 10’ of 1.5” hose. Actually I checked 2 different calculators and they both came up with this answer.

You are correct, sir. I used dia. instead of radius. Two years retired and I'm already forgetting the basics!
My apologies for posting incorrect data.

 

[SteveK]

The calculator I am using shows .918 gallons for 10’ of 1.5” hose. Actually I checked 2 different calculators and they both came up with this answer.

Round to 1 gallon. If every flush cleared the line would give 40 flushes for a 40 Gal holding tank? That is why we use the line as an extension of the holding tank and flush a quart or two to clear bowl until end of trip full flush. Also, if it is yellow, let it mellow.

 

[RichHurst]

For a really cheap conversion, I put a large glass at the sink and poured fresh water into the head to flush. Won't help with thick buildup, but if you're starting with a relatively pipe , easy fix.

 

[SteveK]

For a really cheap conversion, I put a large glass at the sink and poured fresh water into the head to flush. Won't help with thick buildup, but if you're starting with a relatively pipe , easy fix.

??

 

[Takoradi]

Look into Raritan marine elegance heads, the current ultimate fresh water flush.

Absolutely concur. I replaced the old noisy Jabsco seawater head with Raritan ME and after some teething issues, am very happy with it. They will technically work with a 1” discharge hose which was installed a lot in the ‘80’s (my Uniflite 42 is 1984), but from experience I can tell you that 1 1/2” is MUCH more trouble free. If you have 1” on the boat, bite the bullet and replace it all. If you can, use a single piece all the way from head to tank. My aft cabin head runs the length of the engine room and I have a single piece of 1 1/2” Saniflex from the head in an S bend to 1 1/2” PVC to a 6’ piece of 1 1/2” Saniflex. Works great. Also buy the Headmistress’ book “The New Get Rid of Boat Odors”. Peggie Hall (Headmistress) has forgotten more about marine sanitation than most of us will ever know.

 

[Takoradi]

Look into Raritan marine elegance heads, the current ultimate fresh water flush.

Absolutely concur. I replaced the old noisy Jabsco seawater head with Raritan ME and after some teething issues, am very happy with it. They will technically work with a 1” discharge hose which was installed a lot in the ‘80’s (my Uniflite 42 is 1984), but from experience I can tell you that 1 1/2” is MUCH more trouble free. If you have 1” on the boat, bite the bullet and replace it all. If you can, use a single piece all the way from head to tank. My aft cabin head runs the length of the engine room and I have a single piece of 1 1/2” Saniflex from the head in an S bend to 1 1/2” PVC to a 6’ piece of 1 1/2” Saniflex. Works great. Also buy the Headmistress’ book “The New Get Rid of Boat Odors book.

 

[Takoradi]

Amazon.com

 

[SteveK]

They will absolutely work with a continuous 1” discharge. At least they have for 6 years now.

 

[Capt Ray]

When changing from a seawater flush to flushing from one's fresh water storage one MUST take care to have a siphon break and/or a backflow preventer. It is essential to prevent the head's plumbing (even on the supply side!) from contaminating your fresh water supply / storage.
Easy to find details are on Google and Youtube.

We engage a simpler solution: Completely close the through hull fitting that supplies the head. Have a 16oz "Red Solo Cup" next to the sink in the washroom. (Reportedly, it HAS to be red.) Flush "as needed" with some fresh water from the tap. Minimal fresh water for #1, a bit more for #2. Add a little of your favorite chemical as desired. (We use Thetford's [undilluted] blue or green + sprinkle a little No Flex Digester).

Lastly, on pump out day, we have 2 or 3 gallon jugs of fresh water ready at the throne, to flush down at the later stages of the pump out sequence. We have 17.5 feet of 1" (ID) sanitary hose from the head to the holding tank. Applying the mathematical formula for the volume of a 1" cylinder, we learned that is just a bit more than 2 gallons in just the feed line! (Wow!) So, we want the feed line cleared and filled with fresh water at each pump out.

If you want to know how I know that ours is 17.5 feet long, consult this blog post on how I cleared it when it was completely clogged with (20+ years) solid calcium deposits: Clogged 1” sanitary hose from head to holding tank – solved!

Last bit of advice:
If you get a complement from visitors to your boat of how nice your wash room smells, just tell them, "Its our diet!" <wink>

Good Luck becoming an expert at the system that no one wants to become an expert in!

 

[Captain DJ]

I really like my two Tecma heads; they use freshwater and are super quiet.

 

[Sleeping Bear]

|Ok, you got me, what does bluetooth do for the head, supply music?

 

[Rigamarole]

I had 4 Sea Era's. I mean, I liked the ease of them but I swear if a girl shed a few hairs into the toilet I was pulling it apart to clean the macerator blade. And IMO they needed annual maintenance, like plan to pull them all apart and replace the water seals around the macerator motor because they always started to leak. It might take a bit but when they did it would take out the bearings on the motor. After awhile there wasn't a time I didn't start a sailing season without two spares of almost everything - except the water solenoid and flush button.

I have Techma's now but only 6 months into the ownership so I don't know how well they will hold up. But the previous owner doesn't have a single spare part on the boat for them so that's a fairly good sign.

Oh yeah, and those Raratan's are freaking LOUD!!

 

[Pcpete]

I replaced the original heads on our boat with Masterflush Orbit ADA height extended bowl fresh water electric flush toilets and am extremely happy with the results. I replaced the permitted hoses with Schedule 40 PVC as much as possible and removed the Y valve. The use of PVC pipe was recommended by Marine Sanitation, Fisheries Supply and a host of other experts we’re proponents of the PVC,
As to the Y valve, most of my cruise area is a no discharge zone so everything goes to the holding tank. There is a mascerator pump, locked out by a failsafe lockout, for areas (Canada) where discharge is allowed. The direct discharge through hull has been converted to an additional vent line.

 

[Comodave]

|Ok, you got me, what does bluetooth do for the head, supply music?

You can use the Raritan app and modify the default settings in the head. Longer of shorter flushes. More or less water for each flush. Depends on how you want it to flush.

 

[Comodave]

Absolutely concur. I replaced the old noisy Jabsco seawater head with Raritan ME and after some teething issues, am very happy with it. They will technically work with a 1” discharge hose which was installed a lot in the ‘80’s (my Uniflite 42 is 1984), but from experience I can tell you that 1 1/2” is MUCH more trouble free. If you have 1” on the boat, bite the bullet and replace it all. If you can, use a single piece all the way from head to tank. My aft cabin head runs the length of the engine room and I have a single piece of 1 1/2” Saniflex from the head in an S bend to 1 1/2” PVC to a 6’ piece of 1 1/2” Saniflex. Works great. Also buy the Headmistress’ book “The New Get Rid of Boat Odors book.

I have installed 4 MEs with 1” discharge hose and never had a problem. But then I do good flushes to get the poop into the tank each time. With the 1” hose it takes less than half the water to do that. That is probably why I never experienced any issues. Our current boat has a 1” discharge hose that is 36’ long. No way do I want 1.5” hose since it would take a huge volume of water to completely flush the discharge hose clean.

 

[NoRain]

When I installed both of our MEs a couple years ago I talked to Raritan tech support (who are excellent BTW) and they advised against 1.5” for “longer runs” due to the head pressure to move the water. At some point it will challenge the pump motor’s ability to effectively move the discharge effluent. To determine exactly what “longer run” means, you should contact Raritan. (Factors like length, elevation change, # and severity of bends etc)

 

[Comodave]

When I installed both of our MEs a couple years ago I talked to Raritan tech support (who are excellent BTW) and they advised against 1.5” for “longer runs” due to the head pressure to move the water. At some point it will challenge the pump motor’s ability to effectively move the discharge effluent. To determine exactly what “longer run” means, you should contact Raritan. (Factors like length, elevation change, # and severity of bends etc)

While that seems to make sense when I installed the ME in our current boat I called Raritan and asked that question and got a different answer. They said no problem with 1” hose. And I have found that to be true. In fact in the owners manual they have a graph for 1” hose specifically that shows with a 4’ rise, mine is about that, it can pump 115’. So I am not too concerned about my 36’ run. The graph shows with no rise and 1” hose it can pump about 170’. If back pressure was a really big concern I doubt that it could pump anywhere near 170’.

 

[NoRain]

?? I believe I just said 1” is preferred.?