Why is it....

[Jklotz]

Why is it that marine service providers, mechanics, etc, don't have more competition? The ones I've dealt with have provided mediocre service, never show up on time, sometimes not at all, and charge ridiculous rates. They are booked months, even years in advance. If I were younger and knew I could have a job, working for myself, paying $200 an hour, including travel time, with as much work as I could handle and not a huge investment, other than some tools, up front, I'd probably have a much bigger boat now.

Why are more people not doing this?

 

[ktdtx]

You need some knowledge, you need some skill and, the big one...you have to actually Work!

 

[Iggy]

My younger son wanted to be a race car mechanic. That a 1000 to 1 shot and the school told him that.

I told him to be a marine diesel mechanic. No, we went into low level network stuff. He makes about 120k a year. But he could have done a lot better. They just don't want to work....

I don't know about today? But, about 20yrs ago I wanted to go to marine engine school. Being in Boston, the closest one was in FL. I think the class ran for 10 to 12 weeks. No pay, renting a place in FL and paying a house in Boston. No way could I swing it!!

Schools are far and few that just adds to the cost of it all.

 

[DDW]

Actually you don't need 12 weeks of school. A competent boat owner could start a mobile service business and beat 95% of the competition just by showing up when promised and not wrecking everything they touch. In a month, turning down work. RV repair is the same.

I've always been reassured that should I go bankrupt and lose all my other skills, I can always repair boats or RVs for good money.

 

[mvweebles]

I came to be a friend of my diesel mechanic in San Francisco. We were about the same age - in our late 30s at the time. He began life as a dirt bike rider and somehow went to work at a local diesel marine shop at a young age. Shortly after I met him, he hung out his own shingle ...... then promptly broke his leg in a motorcycle accident so was unable to work. I was very active delivering at the time so knew lots of owners and helped my friend develop some income teaching diesel maintenance to owners.

He ended up making a damn fine living. He was fast, honest, and knowledgeable. His motto was "no go-backs" meaning do it right the first time.

I don't think he had any schooling high school and hard knocks. Last I talked to him 7-8 years ago, he'd recently bought a very nice house with pool and outdoor party space in one of the nicer suburbs of San Francisco

Peter

 

[Fish53]

I saw a nationwide study 20 or more years ago that stated you had a 56% chance that an automobile mechanic would fix something incorrectly. I figured I had better odds than that doing it myself. Over the years what I’ve seen indicates the marine industry isn’t much better in many cases. That’s one reason why I do everything myself, the other is self sufficiency when no mechanic is available.

 

[O C Diver]

I would imagine that part of the issue is so very many makes and models of boats and components. As an example, consider how many makes and models of engines there have been in the last 25 years. Certainly I don't want someone to learn as they go on my engine. That's why I'd be more likely to go to the dealership if it was beyond my capability.

The yard I've used for decades only works on Suzuki, Tohatsu, and Yamaha outboards. They have the training, tools, diagnostic equipment, and parts availability. They won't work on anything that isn't fuel injected. Can you imagine working on every outboard that was made in this century.

I've helped a number of people over the years with their boats. Don't think I've ever helped different owners with the same make and model. If you're an independent technician, I can't imagine telling a customer you've never worked on this manufacturer, but you're willing to give it a shot at $200 per hour.

Then there's the part about getting people to pay you.

Ted

 

[RDJackso]

Once upon a time I made my living as a self employed general contractor. Forgetting for the moment about the comments made above regarding finding people who want to work and all of the personnel issues that go hand in glove with having employees, I am reminded of all the times people would remark (on) how good it must be to be self employed. I used to tell them that the difference between self employment and unemployment is this: When you are unemployed, you have to look for a job once every week or so in order to remain eligible for benefits, and you get a check every week. When you are self employed, you are looking for a job every minute of every day. And when you get back to your office, you beg God for a check in the mail today...or any other day, just so you can meet payroll for your help, forget about for yourself! In the end, we did okay. But still, things are seldom as they seem. And that, boys and girls, is one reason that there are few takers to OP's suggestion. Don't even get me started on government over regulating business', overhead expenses, liability insurance, workers comp, disposal of hazardous waste...the list never ends. Looking back, I wonder what in the world possessed me to do it. Now we are retired, go boating, and all is well. So yeah, why don't more people take advantage of obvious opportunities? Beats me.

 

[Comodave]

I watch a channel on YouTube called Will Fix That. I like the mechanics on the channel because they seem to be very conscientious and try to do quality work. They are in Key West so they have challenges getting parts.

 

[Mac2]

Is it wrong to hire someone off the books? After experiencing all of the above, I learned to buy every tool necessary/possible to fix things myself. I hire the pro’s for the things I can’t do, or will destroy my boat if I don’t do it right. On those occasions I found myself asking the tech if they work off the books. I found that the ones that do work off the books, actually show up knowing they are getting paid cash. Win win in my book.

 

[ksanders]

On the original question...

American children in general do not want to do blue collar work, and it's our generations fault.

We wanted our kids to do better than us, so we pushed them into 4 year degrees in anything, regardless wether that degree would result in a skill an employer was willing to pay for.

We... We told our children that they were better than that. Better than we were. Why??? In our defense we just wanted a better life for our kids than we had.

So now... We wait three weeks to get our car worked on. We wait for our boats to be worked on. We make an appointment a month out to get our plumbing repaired.

When I retired from the power company three short years ago, we could not find skilled workers, and we paid well over $50 per hour, and about double that when you include our benefits package.

Why... simply because we as a generation failed to prepare our children for the realities of a world where real dirty work needs to happen.

 

[Wtrguy]

When I was a kid, the guys I looked up to the most could fix anything. We grew up in shops & backyard garages, laying under vehicles & sitting under the hood watching and learning. And while those guys never went to a mechanic, the mechanics of the day were pretty genius in their own right; they had to be with that kind of talent to compete with. Kids would work side by side with parents or other family members and learn the trade, with hopes and aspirations of maybe someday running the business themselves.

Today it seems if the kids inherit a business, they can't sell it fast enough. Instant gratification with zero effort seems to be the cause de jour. Small legacy businesses are being bought out by the big box stores that don't have the face to face community ties that require a sound business model to succeed, IMO.

If I find a service provider that is knowledgeable and dedicated, I give them as much free advertising as I possibly can.

 

[rslifkin]

As a member of a younger generation, it seems like a lot of people were just never taught that they could do basic mechanical things themselves. I do a lot myself, but I've had a surprising number of friends that never did until someone explained how. And the reaction was often "wait, it's that easy to do XYZ?" It's not that they didn't want to or anything, in many cases they just never knew they could and that it wasn't a big thing that required a professional.

 

[Wtrguy]

Is it wrong to hire someone off the books? After experiencing all of the above, I learned to buy every tool necessary/possible to fix things myself. I hire the pro’s for the things I can’t do, or will destroy my boat if I don’t do it right. On those occasions I found myself asking the tech if they work off the books. I found that the ones that do work off the books, actually show up knowing they are getting paid cash. Win win in my book.

Agree this is a win. While I pay cash whenever possible, I never ask about their book keeping. If they choose to not pay the governor, that's on them!

 

[Frosty]

People are always saying "Oh you must just love working on boats, you do it so much." No, it's just that I want to know it's done right. I mean, I do get some satisfaction; but I also don't even feel like just writing a check is (usually) an option, even if I wanted to.

Luckily youtube + some research (because otherwise you could be getting bad advice on youtube) can fill in for areas where one is inexperienced, IF you want to try to do it yourself.

 

[Mac2]

Agree this is a win. While I pay cash whenever possible, I never ask about their book keeping. If they choose to not pay the governor, that's on them!

As related to OPs original guestion, Im wondering if the “off the books” people are more prevalent than we realize.

 

[SteveK]

It started when we drove our kids to school and back, followed by the banning of the strap, etc.
Don't worry, the new generation developed Ai to pick up the pieces and make it easier for their children.

 

[mvweebles]

Is it wrong to hire someone off the books? After experiencing all of the above, I learned to buy every tool necessary/possible to fix things myself. I hire the pro’s for the things I can’t do, or will destroy my boat if I don’t do it right. On those occasions I found myself asking the tech if they work off the books. I found that the ones that do work off the books, actually show up knowing they are getting paid cash. Win win in my book.

If "off the books" means cash and they can chose whether or not to declare, I do it all the time. My calls always get returned even if there's no discount.

If "off the books" means hiring a skilled worker for a side job after hours, I've had unique circumstances where it wasn't necessarily a conflict. As long as the company/employer is okay with it, I'm good. But I wouldn't do it unless I talked to the owner/company.

Peter

 

[Mac2]

If "off the books" means cash and they can chose whether or not to declare, I do it all the time. My calls always get returned even if there's no discount.

If "off the books" means hiring a skilled worker for a side job after hours, I've had unique circumstances where it wasn't necessarily a conflict. As long as the company/employer is okay with it, I'm good. But I wouldn't do it unless I talked to the owner/company.

Peter

Interesting. I specifically don’t tell the owner of the company. I don’t want to get them in trouble for one thing. If a guy wants extra work I don’t mind giving it to them. It’s up to them who they tell, or how they report it. To many rules. I mentioned this before in a chat: when I tried getting my residential HVAC fixed/charged boat people wouldn’t touch a residential unit and residential businesses couldn’t work on the water (union or code rules). Pretty much forced to find someone to work off the books (after I purchased all the HVAC equipment including gas, but couldn’t fix).

 

[SteveK]

If "off the books" means cash and they can chose whether or not to declare, I do it all the time. My calls always get returned even if there's no discount.

If "off the books" means hiring a skilled worker for a side job after hours, I've had unique circumstances where it wasn't necessarily a conflict. As long as the company/employer is okay with it, I'm good. But I wouldn't do it unless I talked to the owner/company.

Peter

Peter if you tell the company about the off the books then you should be paying the company rate in cash to the employee. JMO
The employee may have to pay a % of pay to keep the job while you get a mark on your file for non-priority.

 

[ancora]

The cost of electronic diagnostic equipment needed to do repair must be taken into consideration. That and the constant upgrades needed to keep up with the constant changes.

 

[tiltrider1]

On the original question...

American children in general do not want to do blue collar work, and it's our generations fault.

We wanted our kids to do better than us, so we pushed them into 4 year degrees in anything, regardless wether that degree would result in a skill an employer was willing to pay for.

We... We told our children that they were better than that. Better than we were. Why??? In our defense we just wanted a better life for our kids than we had.

This is the truth on how we got here. Every generation looks at the last generation as lazy but forgets it was caused by the earlier generation. My grandfather thought I was lazy because I was always trying to out think the problem rather than conquering it with brute force. In some regards He was right on the other hand I accomplished far more than he ever dreamed I would achieve.

RDjackso did a pretty good job of explaining Self Employment. The only thing I think he missed was the freedom you get being self employed. Being successfully self employed is hard. Something has to drive you, more money, more freedom, more satisfaction, something because it is just to easy to fail.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter if you tell the company about the off the books then you should be paying the company rate in cash to the employee. JMO
The employee may have to pay a % of pay to keep the job while you get a mark on your file for non-priority.

All I can tell you is what I am comfortable with. Many years ago, The Harvard Negotiation project published a book called "Getting to Yes." I was young and thought I was on a path to business wealth and was surprised when much of the book discussed how important it is for many negotiators to honor the relationship - trust. Seemed ridiculous to a 20-something old whippersnapper.

As I've gotten older, the more I value the relationship. If I contact a business and they send a worker out, my relationship is with the business - it's who I contacted and who I expect to stand behind the work. Frankly, I would think less of a worker who would dishonor their relationship with their employer. Now, if the worker leaves their place of employment, I'm good with hiring them for a side hustle.

It's fairly rare, but I have hired folks with the consent of the business owner. A few years ago I had some windows replaced in my home. I didn't want to go through the hassle of getting permits so I worked out a deal where the company sold the windows and I hired their installer with a cash payment deal. On another occasion, I hired my contractors electrician on the side which the contractor was fine with. I've had variations of that theme a few times, though almost always with a company/contractor with whom I have a good relationship (perhaps due to a sense of mutual trust).

Everyone has to make their own decisions. I just won't hire someone under the table for work that was initiated through a contact with their employer.

Peter

 

[ranger58sb]

On the original question...

American children in general do not want to do blue collar work, and it's our generations fault.

We wanted our kids to do better than us, so we pushed them into 4 year degrees in anything, regardless wether that degree would result in a skill an employer was willing to pay for.

We... We told our children that they were better than that. Better than we were. Why??? In our defense we just wanted a better life for our kids than we had.

I suspect there are about 218 (?) primary reasons that speak to OP's original question, but I agree this is likely one of them. And not really starting with "we" -- instead starting at least with the WWII generation, that in turn caused all of us "currently old" folks.

Back when not so many (or even any) folks in a given family had ever been to college.

Hard to argue with wanting a "better life" for descendants. Even equating "college" with "a better life" isn't necessarily all that horrible. The pitfall comes when "college" becomes thought to be the only path...

And when the trades started getting short shrift because of that.

-Chris

 

[Sababa]

The cost of electronic diagnostic equipment needed to do repair must be taken into consideration. That and the constant upgrades needed to keep up with the constant changes.

This ^^^

Even though I was on the college track and am a professional today, as a kid I worked on my car and learned how to fix most things that could be tackled with a wrench and a screwdriver because most things were fixable with ordinary tools. I rarely open the hood of my own car these days because you need proprietary software to do much beyond changing the oil and adding wiper fluid.

 

[tiltrider1]

It’s how life goes, I am an expert at tuning dual carburetors, adjusting points and setting dwell. A skill that died in the 80’s.

I can also program in BASIC, Fortran and COBOL. More skills that became obsolete.

In my 30’s I saw guys in their 50’s getting laid off because their skills were no longer needed. I decided that wouldn’t be me and started more than one business to stay ahead.

My advice now, what was true yesterday, is true today and will be true in the future? Plumbers! AI won’t be taking those jobs.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yes. Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, brick layers, roofers, gardeners, landscapers.

We need people in skilled trades. The pay is good but yes, you have to work. Get down and dirty, all day long.

Yeah, want us to change your oil? I'll be right over, $150 / cylinder - My training captain -

 

[JackConnick]

When you are self employed, you are looking for a job every minute of every day. And when you get back to your office, you beg God for a check in the mail today...or any other day, just so you can meet payroll for your help, forget about for yourself!

Word.
I did it all my career, both in service and in sales. And you forgot to mention the competition - somebody can always do it cheaper...

 

[BruceK]

Smart parents would wisely encourage the kids into a trade over a profession. Lots of $$$ to be made. A marine trade is as good as any, if not better, with unsatisfied demand. Competence, timely service, financial fairness and honesty, will be rewarded handsomely. Operators with none of those qualities still do ok.

 

[DDW]

There is a huge difference in being self employed, and running a business with employees. Employees are a PITA. Take on one and the two of you will get about half as much work done. 5 or 10 - if you hire wisely - you may be back to making money. In my scenario of having to do boat or RV repair because I lost every other skill, no way would I hire people. Just myself, out of my van. Very little overhead, no payroll, and only myself to blame for mistakes.

It has been mentioned that boats are all unique and you can't afford to pay someone to learn. But my experience is that you are paying the factory mechanic to learn anyway, a lot of the time. I'd a lot rather pay a competent person to learn to fix my problem, than hire an incompetent one.