Which screw head do you prefer?

[dhays]

Good old Robertson. Invented in Ontario. Until the USA sees the light it will never be ubiquitous unfortunately.

I really hate the Phillips in comparison, generally replace them with Robertson if I can.

The US will likely move to square drives as standard around the same time we convert to metric....

Being close to Canada, Robertson is very popular here, but still not easy to find.

 

[Group9]

I'm a huge Torx drive fan, too. Just about all I use these days.

 

[DCDC]

mcfeelys.com carries a huge variety of fasteners in several materials and head types. We used SS square drive for structural fastenings on a cypress home 20 years ago and still like new.

 

[Benthic2]

I like the square drives. I find stainless phillips OK, because stainless seems harder to me than other screws as I am less likely to strip them. I have found that cheaper drive tips wear much quicker, and once they are worn, they will strip your screw heads. The phillips tips are cheap enough that replacing them often isn't expensive and really makes a difference.

A lot depends on the application. If I know I'll be removing and replacing a screw frequently, I'll take the time to get a square drive....if its a one time install, I'll go phillips.

 

[Lepke]

One issue if you are disassembling items that have been painted/varnished over, it's far easier to pick the paint out a square drive. You don't have to get to the bottom to get a good connection. A phillips needs to be cleaned down to the center and star drives are a pia. There seems to be no exact standard between manufacturers.
I have a wood boat and at times use a lot of screws. I have no problem finding square heads of all types online. I use 316, but inside if it stays dry, ordinary hardware stainless (I think 304) works fine. Submerged I use silicon bronze. Even 316 will corrode in the absence of air.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Torx is favorite for sure.
Square for SS when I can’t get Torx or starr.
Hex male or female. I do like the hex head w flange as if it had a washer. Widely available in galvanized.
To soften the hate of slots they are much more usable w a good hardened driver that will hold it’s edge. Actually if you have a new screwslot and really good driver one can put a lot of torque to the screw w good fwd driver pressure. One can easily dig paint out of the slot too and that can’t be said for socket slots square, starr or hex.

 

[boomerang]

Australia is finally starting to stock Robertson (square drive) screws. We can even buy them stainless Robertsons at Bunnings now for a good price.

I also like European Pozi drive screws. Both the screw and the screwdriver are often mistaken for a phillips but are much better. They are used on Ikea furniture and cabinet hinges. Invest in a Pozidrive screwdriver if you don't have one because I'm sure everyone uses the screws on occasion.

Pozidrive ,huh? Good to know The picture looks like those darn screws that raymarine sends with their equipment & I usually replace them because I don't have a bit to fit them & a phillips ends up wiping out the screw head before its tight.

 

[AusCan]

Pozidrive ,huh? Good to know The picture looks like those darn screws that raymarine sends with their equipment & I usually replace them because I don't have a bit to fit them & a phillips ends up wiping out the screw head before its tight.

You can tell if it’s a Pozi-drove screw because it will have 4 diagonal hash marks on the head.

 

[C lectric]

Posi Drive. It appears in a lot of electrical equipment and you need both the Pozi drive and the Philips and need to know to look to see which it is or the wrong screwdriver in the wrong screw will result in you being in trouble. They ALMOST fit but just enough to ruin each other. Other wise the Pozi is a better drive, a more positive, solid engagement.


For the Robertson I agree, get good quality drives, whether hand screwdrivers or power bits. The good ones will outlast many times the difference in cost and also the cheapies will ruin the screw heads.

Where I used to work, electrical and millwrighting, we used lots of Robertson, Allen, some Torx. SLots went into the round bin, Philips we left behind unless forced to use them.

I will say though for ALL screw head types, get good tools. Sloppy fitting or poorly made, soft steel screwdrivers or driver bits are a recipe for trouble. Does not matter what the type is; slot, Robertson, Philips, Pozi Drive, Torx, etc. Poor tools will Fail to undo the part or ruin the screw head drive and then you have trouble.

 

[Dave_E]

Most Excellent discussion every one!

THE one thing I've found (of which I am most guilty) is NOT drilling a large enough pilot hole. For example, when drilling a pilot hole into a fiberglass stringer, you must drill the hole deep enough to cover the depth of the screw AND the diameter must be larger than the inter diameter of the screw body. Most of all screws I have ever striped were due to a pilot hole not deep or large enough. Fiberglass is harder than we think it is and the old screw gun is NOT going to force that screw into solid fiberglass, hence the "Oh S** when you know you tried to put a screw into too small a hole and at that point any screw head type might be subject to damage. That's my story anyway.

Dave

 

[Greg S]

Actually a Square Drive and a real Robertson are not the same.
The Robbie driver has a wee taper for an interference fit with the screw socket. If the screw was well made it will have that same wee taper. Means you can get the screw to stick on the driver similar in manner to a Morse taper but not as determined.
A Square drive screw will not do that. It will fall off.
YOu may not have a choice but I roundly/squarely curse the Square drive. The difference really does make a difference.

EXACTLY!

You and I know this but nobody else seems to. Especially the idiot buyers at the hardware stores that buy that crap square drive.

The two don't mix and the non-taper "square drive" doesn't work near as well as a true Robertson.

 

[stonejd]

Regarding the Phillips head screws and the ability to apply sufficient torque... My understanding is that the screw head was designed to use in the automobile manufacturing industry with power drivers, to be easy to engage and to deliver a reasonable amount of torque, but then specifically to pop loose and prevent over-torqueing. Thus the problem with delivering sufficient torque without considerable downward pressure.

 

[Art]

Wonder how many straight slot screws in near perfect condition are underwater in the mud?

Less than beer cans - I bet! That's how humans are...

 

[AusCan]

Regarding the Phillips head screws and the ability to apply sufficient torque... My understanding is that the screw head was designed to use in the automobile manufacturing industry with power drivers, to be easy to engage and to deliver a reasonable amount of torque, but then specifically to pop loose and prevent over-torqueing. Thus the problem with delivering sufficient torque without considerable downward pressure.

Yes - they could use a slightly more complicated robotic arm to control the torque but that would cost a few extra dollars. So instead, the rest of the world has to put up with a screw that is poorly designed for what they want to do.

Sometimes capitalism and the free market doesn't quite get it right.

 

[boomerang]

Most Excellent discussion every one!

THE one thing I've found (of which I am most guilty) is NOT drilling a large enough pilot hole. For example, when drilling a pilot hole into a fiberglass stringer, you must drill the hole deep enough to cover the depth of the screw AND the diameter must be larger than the inter diameter of the screw body. Most of all screws I have ever striped were due to a pilot hole not deep or large enough. Fiberglass is harder than we think it is and the old screw gun is NOT going to force that screw into solid fiberglass, hence the "Oh S** when you know you tried to put a screw into too small a hole and at that point any screw head type might be subject to damage. That's my story anyway.

Dave

And another thing that I'm sometimes guilty of is not making a small divot to the drilled screw hole with a countersink bit when fastening in fiberglass. You'll notice the high-end manufactures & boat repair operations take that extra step. It stops the gelcoat from cracking when the screw is torqued plus does allows the caulking to do a better job of sealing.
***EDIT!*** I see dhmeissner already brought this up! As usual I'm a day late...

 

[FF]

The Phillips head was created to strip out!

AS I understand it, after WWII there were vast savings from rationing , nothing to buy and cashing in war bonds.

This drove consumer demand for boats like Chris Craft.

These were wood and required skilled craftsmen to assemble.

The slotted screw heads (and lack of craftsmen) caused lots of damage to expensive pre- built parts like transoms when being installed.

The Phillips was easier to center and drive and would tear out the drive cuts before breaking.

Torx has the most surface area for driving , but SS is still weak , so either predrilling with a proper wood screw drill bit or running a steel screw in first , then replacing works best in real hardwoods.

 

[caltexflanc]

For you Robertson fans who want to splurge a little and be pretty much set for life:

Part Specials | Sam's Marine International

 

[Brooksie]

For removal after becoming covered with paint, varnish, caulking, glue under plugs, and so on; you can't beat an old fashion slotted head screw and a sharp proper sized common screw driver.

 

[john61ct]

For you Robertson fans who want to splurge a little and be pretty much set for life:

Part Specials | Sam's Marine International

Nearly 50¢ each, in a bulk variety pack!

Surely if you know what sizes you want there are cheaper suppliers of 100 at a time?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. 61. Re: post #49. My thoughts exactly. We had a "home port" near Elizabeth City NC for some period of time and I was easily able to source my preferred screws from the local Fastenall outlet. Granted, they did not have them in stock so ordering was necessary but I don't recall having to wait an inordinate amount of time for delivery.
I was not aware of the engineering differences between Robertson and "square socket" fasteners so maybe I was, in fact, using squares as opposed to "Robbies". Still, far better than the cursed Phillips.

A story I heard many years ago was that Robertson, refused to license manufacture of the design to Henry Ford a fact borne by the Wiki article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._L._Robertson

 

[koliver]

Robertson, Canadian, Hatteras, Square Head...sameo-sameo. My boat is built with them and I am glad.

Actually not.

Robertson was too smart by half. Robertson, though the best, but due to patents, didn't catch on in the US or in Europe. In the US, someone thought to beat the patent by inventing the "Square" drive. It is good but the sides of the square are more vertical than Robertson, so not quite as good. I have not heard of any called "Canadian" but it seem evident that the reference is to Robertson. Hattereas, likewise to "Square".

FWIW My boat's path has been littered with slot screws. I do not re-use either slot or Phillips. A get to fail the float test and get replaced with Robertsons.

On my recent trip to visit my Daughter and family in Portugal, I encountered the European standard, Phillips only. No others to be found in Portugal.

 

[Moonfish]

I guess Huey Lewis was right: "It's hip to be square!"

 

[Fredp]

Our Campion being Canadian is 99% Robertson, which is good. I do like the Torx but I am happy with most everything being Robertson on the boat.

Fred P............

 

[DHeckrotte]

I first encountered Robertson (AKA 'square' to uneducated Yankees) drive when I went to McGill in 1966. Whenever I encountered one I deep-sixed it and put in a Phillips. I associated 'em with cheap furniture. When we got our '72 Morgan 27, all the concealed screws were square (or Robertson) and all the exposed were Phillips. Typically, the concealed screws were painted or gel-coated over by the factory. I learned to deal with them, reuse them, but only on the Morgan.

I first encountered Torx fasteners while working on cars in the late '60s. They were typically used for metal trim affixed to body sheet metal. Of course they were steel, and corrosion rendered them impossible to remove.

All my work on antique house hardware, old furniture, and on antique musical instruments involve slotted screws. Interestingly, screws used on finer things have narrower slots. I'm forever regrinding screwdrivers to get them to fit w/o buggering the heads. At least, you can take a hammer and a screwdriver and clean the paint out of a slot!

Adequately cleaning a Torx, Robertson or square is pretty fraught with frustration.

When restoring/reassembling, I use the design as necessary to match the rest in the application. Nothing is more annoying than to find oneself in position with an appropriate screwdriver and find that the PO used a mismatched fastener! But, I've taken to tossing any damaged fastener, even if I've just put it in.

 

[Ski in NC]

Just for giggles I checked my bit box and checked the square drives with calipers. All were tapered, mostly about 0.020" from tip to end of flats. But they were not consistent!! Varied about 0.010" from smallest to largest. Cheap crap I guess.

So how much taper is supposed to be on Robertson?

 

[Moby Nick]

I can't wait for square drive to become predominant. It's all I buy for drywall/deck screws. Canadians know the proper name, but it won't come to mind at present.

 

[Moby Nick]

Also have a lot of SS FHSMS in square drive.

 

[AusCan]

On my recent trip to visit my Daughter and family in Portugal, I encountered the European standard, Phillips only. No others to be found in Portugal.

I think what they have in Portugal and most of Europe are Pozi-drive, rather than Phillips. They look similar, but Pozi-drive are far superior.

 

[GoneFarrell]

Robbies rule! One of the good things about my BC-built boat. Wish they were easier to find locally. Will talk to Santa about a Robertson screw kit.

 

[Larry M]

Just for giggles I checked my bit box and checked the square drives with calipers. All were tapered, mostly about 0.020" from tip to end of flats. But they were not consistent!! Varied about 0.010" from smallest to largest. Cheap crap I guess.

So how much taper is supposed to be on Robertson?

I did the same thing but didn't measure. Not all are tapered. I have ones that are marked S1, S2, R3 and ones with no markings. Is there standard?