when the picture tells you to walk away

[Don L]

Thinking of getting back into boating with inexpensive trawler. Sometimes boat listing photos are pretty helpful. Like this one that yells WALK AWAY!!!! (I couldn't the picture to attach or to delete the thread)

Look at this battery and connections. Is that suppose to sell me somehow?

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1979-custom-sun-harbor-sundeck-trawler-9914915/

 

[tiltrider1]

I disagree. It screams RUN.

 

[SteveK]

The rest of the boat for the price is worth a closer look.
Obvious DIY good enough, but easy to fix.

 

[rslifkin]

The plumbing in some of those engine room pictures doesn't inspire much more confidence. A lot of it looks very old and like some of it may be done with hose not suited to the application.

 

[SteveK]

If your budget is $30,000 then a 70's vintage boat has that price. Not sure if people expect it to be an old boat in like new condition for $30K

 

[Pprior]

unkind - deleted

 

[rslifkin]

If your budget is $30,000 then a 70's vintage boat has that price. Not sure if people expect it to be an old boat in like new condition for $30K

I honestly don't see how anyone would take on a boat like that. I think you would be chasing your tail for years. Everything looks half assed and as though no pride in ownership whatsoever.

Pprior nailed it. I'd expect plenty of things to be old, tired, in need of replacement, etc. It's the signs of things having been half-assed that concern me.

 

[psneeld]

Usually the $29,999 price tag on even 30 foot trawlers will signal project boat to most TFers.

But there are deals to be had out there, and sure there will be weak spots that may say run away, but sometimes a few simple afternoon projects can clear one by one things off the to do list and turn the boat around.

 

[tiltrider1]

So we all know the closer to free the more expensive the boat really is.

Don picked one picture to give you a hint of what you would be getting into. I thought the picture had a lot to say. None of it good.

Let’s start with a red wire attached to the negative post. This means you can’t trust any wire on the boat to be what it is supposed to be.

Thumb screw on positive post, nut on negative post. This says don’t expect anything to be the right specification for job intended. If it was free and fit, it was used, right wrong or indifferent.

Stacking more than 4 wires on a post and stacking in the wrong order. First, couldn’t even buy a post buss. Was this cheapness or ignorance? Both are dangerous qualities. Stacked in wrong order. Suggests ignorance, in reality probably thought he was smarter than everyone else. Another dangerous quality.

Everything else I see is just substandard grade product like a WM battery, vinyl hose on trash pump and so on.

Just my opinion.

 

[psneeld]

I rewired and replumbed a 40 foot trawler in just a couple weeks living aboard and made in most likely case, an ABYC compliant vessel. Yes it cost some money, but a teeny, tiny fraction of what a yard would charge and even worse, the cost of a new boat.

My boat sold for cheap and pleased the next owner who wasn't a weekend warrior boater and it sold again at even a higher price a couple years later. Cheaper doesn't always mean more expensive. Some expensive boats I wouldn't have if you gave them to me.

Saying that older cheaper boats cost more in the long run really depends. But it takes someone who can do and will do the best of what the boat needs but that doesn't mean bringing it back to "new" or "bristol" condition. It just depends.... as the new motto for TF says.

 

[SteveK]

Pprior nailed it. I'd expect plenty of things to be old, tired, in need of replacement, etc. It's the signs of things having been half-assed that concern me.

You quoted Pprior before he deleted. But as I said already, if your budget is $30K and you want to DIY then you look at $30K boats because you want a boat.
Live and let live.

 

[KnotYet]

Focussing on the DIY wiring or old plumbing is looking at the wrong things, IMO.
Those are the relatively easy issues to set straight.
I would be more concerned with the condition of complicated stuff like
deck softness or leaks, window leaks, hull blisters and the running gear, etc.

 

[Choices]

I agree. It is the stuff I can't see that bothers me. Wiring is not a problem. If it screwed up, tear it out and clean it up. Engines and pumps need to be good. Good bones. Has to be pleasing to the eye.

 

[Don L]

If your budget is $30,000 then a 70's vintage boat has that price. Not sure if people expect it to be an old boat in like new condition for $30K

I don't expect it to be like new. BUT I expect the work done on it to have been done properly. When simple things like basic wiring are sooooooo poor I have little belief harder stuff was done correctly. If that is unreasonable that's OK as I can move along.

 

[mvweebles]

Here's a Schucker motorsailor up the coast from you $60k. Odd duck boat - seller might look at a bold offer. Toss the sails and spares and you have a decent trawler that might be worth more than the motor sailor roots.

Thread '1979 Schucker 436 Motorsailor for Sale' 1979 Schucker 436 Motorsailor for Sale

Peter

 

[Comodave]

Agree that the wiring is terrible. However I would be more concerned about the engine, transmission, decks and stringers. The wiring is easy if you have some knowledge of electrical work. The decks, stringers can be a really bad deal if they are rotting. The engine probably has been neglected since the other mechanical systems look terrible. Maybe 20 years ago I would have thought about this boat but not now, no way.

 

[psneeld]

Focussing on the DIY wiring or old plumbing is looking at the wrong things, IMO.
Those are the relatively easy issues to set straight.
I would be more concerned with the condition of complicated stuff like
deck softness or leaks, window leaks, hull blisters and the running gear, etc.

Good point.... and very much part of my point. Some "wrecks" are easy to fix and start cruising if that's the goal.

More than one person has bought a "cheap" boat, got a couple years of fun cruising out of it and sold it off for a far smaller loss than more expensive boats depreciated.

Sure either way you can make or lose money, but it's not absolute cheaper boats cost you more in the long run. A lot depends also your overall lifestyle, assets and how they all work together and your life skills, or not.

 

[Iggy]

What would you expect for 29K?

 

[CharlieO.]

We paid 22K for ours and just finished up our fourth season of enjoyment.

 

[Don L]

What would you expect for 29K?

Let me flip and ask:

What would you accept being wrong for $29k?

 

[GrandWood]

I bought a GB36 woodie for 30k, and it needed lots of work, mostly cosmetic and fixing leaks in the cabin.
But, it has fuel tanks replaced, new wiring throughout, new windlass, new fridge compressor, new propane stove and oven, decent electronics.

Starboard engine seized two weeks in, so that added 20k, and I’ve spent a fair amount on paint and hardware, new dink and outboard, cushions and such.

I sold everything I owned to liveaboard a boat, I don’t regret it one bit, I’ll be on this boat til the end of days, no matter what, it’s my home.

Not looking for a museum piece, just a functional boat, that does what I need, ie: cruise the PNW from Puget to Alaska just exploring and seeing if I can live off the sea and coast, foraging for my meals.

I knew going in I would need to work on the boat, I like working on it. Favorite time is going out on the bow with a cup a Joe in the early am watching the wildlife and sun rise.

Living on the water is a special way of life, and for sure not for everyone, but for me it’s hard to beat.

 

[rslifkin]

What would you expect for 29K?

It depends on what the boat is, but generally I'd expect minimally equipped, some equipment nearing end of life, probably cosmetically tired, might have no canvas, etc. Signs of work having been done poorly concern me more than things that just need work.

 

[North Baltic sea]

I don't understand the overwhelming negativity. The boat only costs around $30,000. Everyone should understand that you may have to invest and work to make it "like new," and it will never be that way.

You can add a zero at the end and start demanding quality and asking the seller to fix any problems or give you a fair discount. Just my opinion

 

[Don L]

bet most posters don't understand that I have more than a little experience in boating

I wasn't really looking to buy the said boat, but I bet I would just spend more money on a different boat that hasn't had Joe Dumbass maintaining it.

The biggest danger to boats are ............. owners!

 

[rslifkin]

bet most posters don't understand that I have more than a little experience in boating

I wasn't really looking to buy the said boat, but I bet I would just spend more money on a different boat that hasn't had Joe Dumbass maintaining it.

The biggest danger to boats are ............. owners!

Not even necessarily more money. If you've got an owner who thinks they've been taking care of things and has replaced stuff, but has done all of the work poorly, there's a good chance that the boat will be over-priced for the actual condition (compared to one that's tired and in need of TLC, but where the owner hasn't recently done a bunch of work).

 

[mvweebles]

Let me flip and ask:

What would you accept being wrong for $29k?

The days of PoS boats selling for any price are closing - ownership costs are high enough that if you can't afford $50k (or more), there is no way in hell you can afford to keep the boat. Finding a slip, insurance is required everywhere, free anchorages are drying up, etc. .

I wouldn't expect much for $30k. Always tough to tell from pictures, but I have seen the occasional decent boat for $50k that appears to be serviceable and ready to safely leave the dock. That would be my expectation.

Peter

 

[Barking Sands]

Not even necessarily more money. If you've got an owner who thinks they've been taking care of things and has replaced stuff, but has done all of the work poorly, there's a good chance that the boat will be over-priced for the actual condition (compared to one that's tired and in need of TLC, but where the owner hasn't recently done a bunch of work).

Man.. isnt that the truth! I have looked at a few boats that were a disaster...but the owner was beaming with pride at the work they had done. That's a terrible combination

 

[keith c]

Someone gave me a boat but I paid too much for it !!!

 

[tiltrider1]

Let me explain this with cars. I have two cars an old MG and an old Ferrari. Both need a restoration. The labor costs the same with both projects, approximately $50,000. Parts for the MG will cost $10,000. Parts for the Ferrari will cost $40,000. When done the MG will be worth $7,500. The Ferrari will be worth $105,000. Now which project makes the most sense?

Some will say the Ferrari and some will say neither. One person will say the MG. That person wants the experience of restoring an old car for the least amount of money. They have a different narrative than everyone else. While this doesn’t make them wrong, it doesn’t make them right.

 

[Barking Sands]

Let me explain this with cars. I have two cars an old MG and an old Ferrari. Both need a restoration. The labor costs the same with both projects, approximately $50,000. Parts for the MG will cost $10,000. Parts for the Ferrari will cost $40,000. When done the MG will be worth $7,500. The Ferrari will be worth $105,000. Now which project makes the most sense?

Some will say the Ferrari and some will say neither. One person will say the MG. That person wants the experience of restoring an old car for the least amount of money. They have a different narrative than everyone else. While this doesn’t make them wrong, it doesn’t make them right.

Yes all true. One difference I would like to highlight though regarding costs to refurb a boat vs resale value.
And that is...value in terms of utility. One thing that sometimes gets lost in the calculation is the boats ability to carry out the mission we had in mind. The ability for a boat, and the required work/cost, to fulfill our desired mission needs to be taken into account.

Peter (MVWEEBLES) spent a pretty penny on his boat, modifications and lots of man hours. But I think overlaying those costs and man hours over the mission he is about to undertake and the utility required is the only cost benefit analysis that is worthwhile. In some sense our boats are simply tools for experience and adventure. Having that tool ready and available is priceless to me at this moment.

This is in no way any criticism of your post. Your post just reminded me of this angle.