What would you do?

[ksanders]

The buyer is not trying to claw back something that was missed on a survey, the typical scenario. In this case, the buyer found the issue and presented it as something that needed to be fixed prior to acceptance. The seller chose to undertake repairs himself and represented it as fixed.

Does the seller bear no responsibility for claiming the issue was fixed and it was not? This isn't something that broke again a month later - clearly it wasn't fixed in the first place (boat closed 4-days before)

Peter

No, the seller reports that he thinks the issue is fixed.

The buyer then verifies that any repairs have been completed to their satisfaction.
After that, the buyer signs off on the contact and initiates a wire transfer of funds to the escrow agent.

 

[captobie]

If it were me... (and after reading all the other replies here so far)

- I'd get another mechanic to look at it, or have the shop the mechanic who did look at it give you an estimate. The guys who work in the field don't always have a good grasp on how much things actually cost, or they may pad the ballpark figure so you don't come back and say, "you said it would only be $1,000."
- When you do know how much it cost, I'd definitely reach out to the seller and see if they'll share the cost. If it were me, and I was the guy who tightened it up and said, "all fixed", I'd feel like crap and would probably be willing to help out if I could.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Sababa]

I think it would be bad form to come back to the seller on this. It's your boat to fix now.

 

[Jklotz]

A little update: Called Cummins to see if they could send somebody out to give me a quote. They will be out next Thur or Fri. The part is no longer under any type of warranty, unfortunately. The guy I've been speaking to at North Pacific, who brokered the deal for the sellers side, is going to take it up with the owner of the company over the weekend and get back to me beginning of next week.

So, bad news is I'm stuck at the dock for a week. Good news is a solution is in the works and this will be resolved. My hope is NP will help with this and the Cummins guys can show up with a new pump, maybe a rebuild, and just swap it out. That's probably my fastest way to resolution. Fingers crossed.

The frustrating part of all this is I bought a newer boat hoping to avoid things like this. Oh well.

 

[Wtrguy]

It seems there's always one glitch when buying a boat, new or otherwise, IMHO. Now that that's out of the way, you can cruise trouble free for many years now!

And that really is a beautiful boat. Well worth the initial inconvenience I think.

 

[magna 6882]

I think folks are getting a little in the weeds. I am reading the seller ,buyer and broker are all concerned about the problem and likely waiting to hear from cummins. This will get resolved between the parties and they all will still be friends. I think the OP was just posting his predicament as a FYI and never gave any indications he was concerned the problem couldn't be resolved in a friendly manner.

 

[Jklotz]

So get this. Doing a little digging, I found that Dodge issued a recall to it's trucks using the same engine, same year, to have the high pressure fuel pump replaced under warranty. Hmmmm.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/ram-heavy-duty-diesel-trucks-recalled-due-to-stall-risk-a2807060667/?msockid=25000a7c07776e3e16931fa906216fe3

 

[Fletcher500]

I followed along on your buying journey on here, and you ended up with a nice engine. I am biased of course.

As far as I know, that recall does not pertain to our marine engine.

A few comments:

You have some good advice from others regarding your fuel pump. Another resource is the Seaboard Marine Website and Forum that is slanted towards Cummins. Tony Athens is a well respected Diesel guy who runs it, and he has a QSB 6.7 in his own personal boat.

I searched his website and couldn’t find any well known or problematic comments pertaining to the QSB 6.7 high pressure pump. As you probably know, there are two fuel pumps on your engine. The electric lift pump only operates on start up to prime the system for about 8 seconds, then it turns off, and stays off.

We only have 1 engine, so treat it well. I do all of my own maintenance and obsess over mine. If you are new to diesels, I would suggest you pay a Cummins Tech to take you through a full maintenance cycle and learn how to change the fuel filters, impeller, Zincs, etc. These are relatively simple engines to work on and you have good access with your single. I believe you started a thread awhile back re single or double. As you found out, it depends and we have all have our opinions, no right or wrong answers. After having two previous boats with twins, I am in the single camp.

My wife and I chartered a North Pacific 49 last year in the PNW and had a great time on it.

 

[ancora]

I followed along on your buying journey on here, and you ended up with a nice engine. I am biased of course.

As far as I know, that recall does not pertain to our marine engine.

A few comments:

You have some good advice from others regarding your fuel pump. Another resource is the Seaboard Marine Website and Forum that is slanted towards Cummins. Tony Athens is a well respected Diesel guy who runs it, and he has a QSB 6.7 in his own personal boat.

I searched his website and couldn’t find any well known or problematic comments pertaining to the QSB 6.7 high pressure pump. As you probably know, there are two fuel pumps on your engine. The electric lift pump only operates on start up to prime the system for about 8 seconds, then it turns off, and stays off.

We only have 1 engine, so treat it well. I do all of my own maintenance and obsess over mine. If you are new to diesels, I would suggest you pay a Cummins Tech to take you through a full maintenance cycle and learn how to change the fuel filters, impeller, Zincs, etc. These are relatively simple engines to work on and you have good access with your single. I believe you started a thread awhile back re single or double. As you found out, it depends and we have all have our opinions, no right or wrong answers. After having two previous boats with twins, I am in the single camp.

My wife and I chartered a North Pacific 49 last year in the PNW and had a great time on it.

It sounds like the buyer is a "checkwriter" as opposed to a DIYer, therefore believes whatever the mechanic tells him. I find 5 Gs to replace a seal a bit much.
PS Agree with you on Tony Athens, he is the Cummins guru.

 

[Sababa]

It sounds like the buyer is a "checkwriter" as opposed to a DIYer, therefore believes whatever the mechanic tells him. I find 5 Gs to replace a seal a bit much.
PS Agree with you on Tony Athens, he is the Cummins guru.

Let's be nice, all are welcome here.

 

[Jklotz]

It sounds like the buyer is a "checkwriter" as opposed to a DIYer, therefore believes whatever the mechanic tells him. I find 5 Gs to replace a seal a bit much.
PS Agree with you on Tony Athens, he is the Cummins guru.

Jeez, kick a guy while he's down. Nice. Should I apologize that 5 days into boat ownership, my diesel mechanical skills don't meet your expectations? My focus is getting this issue resolved. Given your obvious superiority in the matter, perhaps you'd care to offer some tidbits to that end? Clearly, I could use the education.

 

[Helmsman]

A friend of mine had his QSB 6.7 pump replaced a year or so ago. I think the cost of the pump was around $2,500 and the labor was less than that. I just looked up the pump on Tony’s site sbmar.com, and the cost is $2,595 for the part.

I am not sure how many labor hours it took, but the mechanic took the old pump off, then sent it to be tested. They determined it needed replacement, and he came out and installed a new one. Once you are into seals, I would just have a new or re-built one installed. It is a critical piece of equipment. Get past the problem and go enjoy the boat.

I would also have an oil and filter change completed at the same time. If the mechanic is willing, you can watch him change the oil, and you can hire him to show you how to change the oil and fuel filters, the impeller, change the anodes, check the air filter, etc., etc. I would just look at it as an opportunity to learn more about the boat. There are several important things for an owner to understand about the engine, running gear, etc.

 

[Jklotz]

A friend of mine had his QSB 6.7 pump replaced it a year or so ago. I think the cost of the pump was around $2,500 and the labor was less than that. I just looked up the pump on Tony’s site sbmar.com, and the cost is $2,595 for the part.

I am not sure how many labor hours it took, but the mechanic took the old pump off, then sent it to be tested. They determined it needed replacement, and he came out and installed a new one. Once you are into seals, I would just have a new one installed. Get past the problem and go enjoy the boat.

I would also have an oil and filter change completed at the same time. If the mechanic is willing, you can watch him change the oil, and you can hire him for an hour, so he can show you how to change the oil and fuel filters, the impeller, change the anodes, check the air filter, etc., etc. I would just look at it as an opportunity to learn more about the boat. There are several important things to understand about the engine, running gear, etc.

Thanks for that. I just did an oil and filter, transmission and genset oil and filter with the previous owner. Changed the Racor filter as well, so I've learned that part. Still need to learn zincs and impellers. Let's see what the Cummins guy says next Fri. Hoping for some good news.

 

[READY]

Yes going legal is not what I would do either. For sure you want to have a positive and open relationship with the seller as you will need info from him in the future. What would I do? I would just let the seller know that it turns out the problem is a little more than just a loose bolt. Show him the estimate and ask in his opinion if it seems reasonable. At this point the seller might offer to help our, might say the estimate is inflated or might just say it looks about right and make no offer. I would not directly ask for any compensation. If he offers to pay half then great. If not just take care of the problem and keep things positive with the seller. Life is too short and $5K relative to the size of this transaction is fairly insignificant.

 

[Helmsman]

Thanks for that. I just did an oil and filter, transmission and genset oil and filter with the previous owner. Changed the Racor filter as well, so I've learned that part. Still need to learn zincs and impellers. Let's see what the Cummins guy says next Fri. Hoping for some good news.

When you are ready to change the impeller and anodes, just give me a call and I will walk you through it, if that would help. Neither are tough to do, but getting good info on the proper zincs can be a little tough. The transmission cooler zinc goes quicker than the other four.

 

[Jklotz]

When you are ready to change the impeller and anodes, just give me a call and I will walk you through it, if that would help. Neither are tough to do, but getting good info on the proper zincs can be a little tough. The transmission cooler zinc goes quicker than the other four.

Thanks so much! I really appreciate that and I will take you up on it.

 

[ABfish]

It sounds like the buyer is a "checkwriter" as opposed to a DIYer, therefore believes whatever the mechanic tells him. I find 5 Gs to replace a seal a bit much.
PS Agree with you on Tony Athens, he is the Cummins guru.

Unless you have direct experience with the common rail diesels, you'll be shocked at the price to work on these pumps. Fuel pressures of 25 to 30,000 psi and incredibly small tolerances are the new standard.

 

[Mac2]

Didn’t care for the “check writer” comment either. I’ve rebuilt every system on my boat along with adding new/advanced systems. There is a certain point I will specifically call in a pro to verify my work, typically electrical, as I prefer not to have my boat catch fire. Engines would be the other area of expertise I would happily pay for. To much on the line. It’s been six years with my current boat and Ive purchased all the specialty tools to take my CATs apart and I’m buying every gasket for the engine. Unless you’re a professional mechanic, I wouldn’t expect a new owner to be prepared to repair/replace a high pressure pump out of the gate.
Im really interested in the recall notice for trucks. Is there really such a thing as “marinized” high pressure pump? Maybe cooling raw water ports.

 

[Fletcher500]

Didn’t care for the “check writer” comment either. I’ve rebuilt every system on my boat along with adding new/advanced systems. There is a certain point I will specifically call in a pro to verify my work, typically electrical, as I prefer not to have my boat catch fire. Engines would be the other area of expertise I would happily pay for. To much on the line. It’s been six years with my current boat and Ive purchased all the specialty tools to take my CATs apart and I’m buying every gasket for the engine. Unless you’re a professional mechanic, I wouldn’t expect a new owner to be prepared to repair/replace a high pressure pump out of the gate.
Im really interested in the recall notice for trucks. Is there really such a thing as “marinized” high pressure pump? Maybe cooling raw water ports.

I hear from people in the industry how many repairs (Mech/Elec) that were botched by DIY’ers. 40 years ago I was working on an oil tanker as an engineer and was fairly competent down there. However, I changed gears and got a desk job in my mid mid 20’s and my mechanical skills decreased. I can work on most systems on my boat, but I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with these high pressure fuel systems either, and want someone who has their hands on them a lot and the muscle memory. The Cummins manual also says owners should avoid them and to use a Cummins Tech. I know there are people on this Forum who have the skills to do it, but the reality is many of us don’t. This is likely evidenced by the owner of the North Pacific 45 and his “fix”. IE, if a fuel system is involved, its often more complex than tightening up some bolts.

As far as the recall for the truck engines (ISB), that is not relevant to the QSB 6.7. There are none, and have never been any open campaigns on the Cummins Quick Serve website to my knowledge. I also found that truck recall notice a few years ago and checked it out…move slow to move fast. Mac2 - I am guessing it’s a different pump or the fuel system arrangement may be different due to emissions (OTR vs marine), but I don't know.

Anecdotally I have heard of a few failures, but I did not find any unusual concerns on the SBMAR website regarding the HP fuel pump on the 6.7 (there is a 5.9 and 6.7 QSB). That website has many recreational fisherman and commercial people with heavy hour usage. BTW, the Navy is a big proponent of the QSB 6.7 for retrofits and new builds including their special forces boats.

This engine is a very reliable and efficient work horse if it's treated properly and well maintained.

 

[mvweebles]

I hear from people in the industry how many repairs (Mech/Elec) that were botched by DIY’ers. 40 years ago I was working on an oil tanker as an engineer and was fairly competent down there. However, I changed gears and got a desk job in my mid mid 20’s and my mechanical skills decreased. I can work on most systems on my boat, but I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with these high pressure fuel systems either, and want someone who has their hands on them a lot and the muscle memory. The Cummins manual also says owners should avoid them and to use a Cummins Tech. I know there are people on this Forum who have the skills to do it, but the reality is many of us don’t. This is likely evidenced by the owner of the North Pacific 45 and his “fix”. IE, if a fuel system is involved, its often more complex than tightening up some bolts.

As far as the recall for the truck engines (ISB), that is not relevant to the QSB 6.7. There are none, and have never been any open campaigns on the Cummins Quick Serve website to my knowledge. I also found that truck recall notice a few years ago and checked it out…move slow to move fast. Mac2 - I am guessing it’s a different pump or the fuel system arrangement may be different due to emissions (OTR vs marine), but I don't know.

Anecdotally I have heard of a few failures, but I did not find any unusual concerns on the SBMAR website regarding the HP fuel pump on the 6.7 (there is a 5.9 and 6.7 QSB). That website has many recreational fisherman and commercial people with heavy hour usage. BTW, the Navy is a big proponent of the QSB 6.7 for retrofits and new builds including their special forces boats.

This engine is a very reliable and efficient work horse if it's treated properly and well maintained.

Good post (and a good companion to @Mac2). I used to be a decent shade tree mechanic too. Mostly I learned because I was too broke to have an alternative so had to muddle through. I learned a lot and can probably figure out all sorts of things if I had to. But these days I fret over doing things so I'm happy to spend some time to find a competent mechanic. If I had this same type of issue on my ancient Perkins 4.236 (which pales in complexity to the OPs new Cummins that produces almost 10x the horsepower), id look for a mechanic as I've never had an injection pump off a diesel. I'm sure I could figure it out but at 64, I'm not sure it's a skill I'd need again so color me a check-writer captain too.

Great boat. Very versatile.

Peter

 

[Jklotz]

Check writer here. I did the engine oil & filter change, transmission oil and genset oil & filter change. Changed the racor filters while I was at it. Plan to service the windless and lube the thr hull seacocks and replace zincs next haul out. But remove, rebuild and reinstall a high pressure fuel pump on a $100k engine? Call me a check writer, cause' I'm not touching it.

 

[ancora]

Don't see where all the kerfuffle is about being a checkwriter. I'm 89 years old and have to write a check for the heavy lifting stuff I can't do anymore. The mechanic I use knows I'm familiar to what has to be done and appreciates my knowledge. I am still changing oil, zincs, Racors, and doing electrical stuff. Recently sent my autopilot control board out to be repaired, wired it back in and it worked....a win for the weak side.

 

[Astral Blue]

You were aware of the leak. You had a chance to bring a mechanic on board to diagnose it. You had a chance to walk away from it. You exercised your option to buy the boat with knowledge of the leak. I hate to say it, but it's on you.

Returning to the previous owner and asking him to contribute to the repair is an easy way to burn the bridge with him. The previous owner has no obligation to contribute to the repair. You did your due diligence.

It's not a perfect world, but $5K is chump change compared to what you'll be spending throughout the time you own that boat.

 

[psneeld]

I love the comparison of tightening a fitting/bolt and seeing a leak stop with "messing" with a high pressure fuel pump.

Not all DIYers are necessarily the root of all problems or clueless either.

The OP may have known what he was doing.... tightened a loose fitting/bolt is not out of line to see if it fixes a simple leak. I can't find fault there.

The exact location of the leak hasn't been revealed yet, still trying to figure where the external leak is also capable of getting into the engine oil.

 

[SteveK]

Check writer here. I did the engine oil & filter change, transmission oil and genset oil & filter change. Changed the racor filters while I was at it. Plan to service the windless and lube the thr hull seacocks and replace zincs next haul out. But remove, rebuild and reinstall a high pressure fuel pump on a $100k engine? Call me a check writer, cause' I'm not touching it.

Don't you worry, no one here will remember your DIY work in a month, but everyone will remember the check writer moniker.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Me thinks we all be checkwriters here, all us boat owners eh?

Have big fun on that gorgeous boat -

 

[Barking Sands]

I am a professional mechanic and I find myself writing checks more and more.

 

[Helmsman]

When the Cummins guy comes out have him check for the attached if the previous owner didn’t replace it. A couple of QSB 6.7 owners had their fuel filter fall off under way. May be able to get him to fix it while he replaces the pump.

 

[SeaDogAK]

This thread makes me want to change my TF name to Check Writer. Maybe my wife could be Check Mate.

 

[3rdOrderEffect]

We should all be so lucky as to know how to do everything we need done ourselves, but rich enough to pay someone else to do it for us