Water Makers

[Iggy]

I plan on adding a water maker for next season. Looking at Parker, Spectra and US Watermaker.

They all have pros and cons but leaning towards US Watermaker. US Watermaker Clearwater is expandable from 400 to 1500 GPD by changing the tubes. Small in size/foot print. 120V @ 18A

Parker Pro Mini is fixed in output, cost is a little higher. BUT "reduces noise level to a negligent hum". 120v @18A

Spectra is pricy! The 14gph model is a negligent hum. Saw one a running at the Newport Boat Show. For the same price I can buy one from above with twice the output. 12v @ 12A

I am looking for any input on the above models. Power is a concern, but not a big one having a 5.5k genset, 3000w inverter and a 800Ah bank.

 

[mvweebles]

While I cannot speak to either brand, a relevant observation is I have a standard 120v 30gph water maker that I run while underway in clean water. Because the engine is running, noise is not a factor.

Not only is the Spectra expensive, but it has a lot of proprietary parts. I struggle with easy stuff so I avoid anything that ventures beyond readily available.

Is there a reason you've keyed into US Water maker vs SeaWaterPro? I went with CruiseRO. In hindsight, I wish I'd gone with SWP.

Peter

 

[Iggy]

From everything I read, SeaWater Pro over rates there GPH. Also I am looking for a unit that is more robust and that is a little more self contained. Just looking at the user manual Sea Water Pro is not as detailed.

Sea Water Pro has a 56 pages with the last 5 as ads. Where the US water maker is 71 that even breaks down the high pressure pump with every part and rebuild kits. Which is just one example.

CruiseRO is not on my list. Pulls too mush power and no rack mounting with everything in a small box.

 

[ksanders]

My opinion go with a watermaker that uses off the shelf parts. The reason is that first parts are cheaper, and second generic replacement parts are easier to source.

Next go with the highest output you can get into your space and power budget. The reason is because yu will use way more water than you think, and you will want to limit the run time of your generator.

I chose Cruise RO, but that was many years ago. Since then most of my system has been replaced, not because it was bad, I simply wore components out.

 

[TBill36]

I had Little Wonder Village Marine watermaker on my last boat. As stated by others get something with as high a gph capacity within reason as you can. I was not comfortable making water in a congested harbor or mooring field and you usually just don't have enough time outside in clear water with a low-capacity system.

The Little Wonder was a 12v system and used a priority sized membrane to accommodate a low flow rate. They were expensive. Get something with standard membrane sizes. However, it was a relatively simple system with manual valves and no circuit boards to go out. I had it set up to run fresh water through it with simple timers to keep membranes intact when it wasn't going to be used for a while. I don't understand why the more sophisticated systems need all the bells and whistles that are a potential for failure. A few pre-filters and a couple of pumps and some valves is the basis for the system. Basically, you are pushing saltwater through a membrane, throwing away the brine, and keeping the fresh water. It doesn't need circuit boards, but you probably can't find one without them.

 

[mvweebles]

Sea Water Pro has a 56 pages with the last 5 as ads. Where the US water maker is 71 that even breaks down the high pressure pump with every part and rebuild kits. Which is just one example.

If you are judging by size of manual, CROs must be over 120 pages which I found difficult to follow. I recall the story of the professor who administered a take-home essay response exam. He handed back the graded essays and asked whether anyone wanted to challenge the grade they'd received which no one did. He then said he was short on time and rather than read each submission, he weighed them with the heaviest getting the highest grades. So maybe there's merit in size of manual.

To my thinking, water production is a function of components. I see the size ratings of any common water maker as directional only - a nominal rating (sorta like a 2x4 isn't 2" x 4"). A 1.5 hp pressure pump with two membranes and a decent pre-pump will produce roughly the same amount of water under similar conditions regardless of whether it's SWP,, CRO, or USW (who I've only recently heard of). I will tell you my customer service and warranty experience with CRO was positively awful, and a respected friend's experience with SWP exceeded his expectations. CRO uses a complicated timer and flush mechanism that is expensive and difficult to install, plus they are more expensive than SWP thus my conclusion that I would go with SWP if I did it over. Point being there are some other considerations than just GPH.

Peter

 

[Jklotz]

I just ordered a seawater pro 40GPH. Parts are off the shelf, makes plenty of water for the 2 of us, installation isn't all that complicated and several folks I know and respect have told me they have had very good experiences with theirs.

 

[Ken E.]

I had Little Wonder Village Marine watermaker on my last boat. As stated by others get something with as high a gph capacity within reason as you can. I was not comfortable making water in a congested harbor or mooring field and you usually just don't have enough time outside in clear water with a low-capacity system.

The Little Wonder was a 12v system and used a priority sized membrane to accommodate a low flow rate. They were expensive. Get something with standard membrane sizes. However, it was a relatively simple system with manual valves and no circuit boards to go out. I had it set up to run fresh water through it with simple timers to keep membranes intact when it wasn't going to be used for a while. I don't understand why the more sophisticated systems need all the bells and whistles that are a potential for failure. A few pre-filters and a couple of pumps and some valves is the basis for the system. Basically, you are pushing saltwater through a membrane, throwing away the brine, and keeping the fresh water. It doesn't need circuit boards, but you probably can't find one without them.

I also have a Village LW watermaker, 12 V. I've replaced the membrane once in 15 years but they're proprietary and not cheap. The water production is low, maybe 6 gallons per hour but I only run it in open water while we're traveling to top-off the tank. As mentioned, these are simple but straightforward, which I like. I would install this unit again for my application, or something similar.

 

[twistedtree]

I have had two Spectra units and was not so happy with them. I have an FCI now which is excellent with excellent support. I would buy another in a heart beat.

 

[DDW]

The reason you'd buy a Spectra is the power consumption. From the above figures, the Spectra uses 144 watts, the other two 2100 watts, 15X as much. The reason you care about this is you are on a sailboat. If you aren't on a sailboat then you don't care. Unless you don't want to run your genset to make water.

 

[Mac2]

Don’t buy a Sea Recovery unit! Their RO membranes are proprietary and three times as much as others.

 

[mvweebles]

I have had two Spectra units and was not so happy with them. I have an FCI now which is excellent with excellent support. I would buy another in a heart beat.

I never heard of FCI so I googled them. Find Your Watermaker | FCI Watermakers: Marine Reverse Osmosis

Unfortunately, they don't give any information on their systems. You answer a few questions (GPH, Power, Seawater) and they then want your name/number before they'll give any information. Maybe I'm persnickety but that type of no-info-until-we-get-your-contact-info sort of turns me off. When I start a research journey, I'd like some info without an escort.

Peter

 

[Frosty]

Here are my thoughts which are general, and very dated, but maybe still applicable.

We had a sailboat, with a small house bank (this was back in the day). Previous owner had fitted a low amp, DC watermaker.

While it was super nice having one (back then we never could have afforded to add it ourselves), it turned out that having a low amp draw/low output watermaker didn't really fit that well. We would run it when underway, so it would have been better to have one that drew more power but cranked out the water in a 2-3 hour period at most.

Same as mentioned above, engine was running so noise not a big deal.

(If one were planning to run it over a longer period on 12 volt at anchor then obviously totally different. That's what we expected but back then we couldn't even support that draw for the many, many hours it took to make a lot of water.)

 

[Jklotz]

Fwiw, FCI quoted me $15k for my system, and that was just for the system, not installed. I'm sure it's really nice, but I could buy 3 seawater pro systems for that.

 

[Datenight]

I bought a SWP last year for our trip to the Bahamas. It was relatively easy to install as worked well. Looking forward to using it again this winter in the Bahamas.

The unit was bought from a person who never installed it. Mike at SWP treated me like a customer who just bought new from him. Can’t say enough about the product support.

We have a single membrane model which makes about 17 gallons/hour. I had planned to add a second membrane this summer but my solar upgrade and the lithium changeover took up all my time. The good part is that I can now run the water maker on the inverter.

Rob

 

[Iggy]

If you are judging by size of manual, CROs must be over 120 pages which I found difficult to follow. I recall the story of the professor who administered a take-home essay response exam. He handed back the graded essays and asked whether anyone wanted to challenge the grade they'd received which no one did. He then said he was short on time and rather than read each submission, he weighed them with the heaviest getting the highest grades. So maybe there's merit in size of manual.

To my thinking, water production is a function of components. I see the size ratings of any common water maker as directional only - a nominal rating (sorta like a 2x4 isn't 2" x 4"). A 1.5 hp pressure pump with two membranes and a decent pre-pump will produce roughly the same amount of water under similar conditions regardless of whether it's SWP,, CRO, or USW (who I've only recently heard of). I will tell you my customer service and warranty experience with CRO was positively awful, and a respected friend's experience with SWP exceeded his expectations. CRO uses a complicated timer and flush mechanism that is expensive and difficult to install, plus they are more expensive than SWP thus my conclusion that I would go with SWP if I did it over. Point being there are some other considerations than just GPH.

Peter

No not judging on the manual alone. But just a fact, and Sea Pro seams to be under priced compared to other brand. So is it cheap China junk parts?

 

[Iggy]

I have had two Spectra units and was not so happy with them. I have an FCI now which is excellent with excellent support. I would buy another in a heart beat.

I like FCI, but its big. Too big for my boat.

 

[Iggy]

Fwiw, FCI quoted me $15k for my system, and that was just for the system, not installed. I'm sure it's really nice, but I could buy 3 seawater pro systems for that.

That might be a reason for that. Which makes me think, how good is it. SWP and Rain Man are the only two in the 5k range.

 

[Lepke]

You need to consider how long you want to run your generator, what is the water temperatures where you're going to make water, and once you can make water, you'll use more water.
Membranes are rated at 77°F (25°C). See table. My 60gph makes 30+gph in Alaska. Also you need a flow meter to set the pressure. If you exceed the flow rate of the membrane adjusted for water temperature, you're probably exceeding the pressure difference between the 2 sides of the membrane.
If the pressure is outside of the rating you can tear the membrane and you'll have more salt in your fresh water.

 

[DDW]

One interesting factoid from that data sheet is that the product should be discarded for the first hour from startup. That is a lot of power wasted.

 

[Mac2]

One interesting factoid from that data sheet is that the product should be discarded for the first hour from startup. That is a lot of power wasted.

Wonder if that is a CYA policy. Hard to believe it takes that long. I use a TDS meter until it falls into the parameters for drinking. Maybe 10 minutes tops. I have valves to divert to a bucket. I test a cup at a time until ppm is correct.

 

[Ithaka7]

Water makers are pretty simple devices. I also experimented with a self-made DC watermaker that was producing 3 gph when I had a sailboat. Nice, cute, worked OK with a 35 gallon water tank. Now that I have a 210 gallon fresh water tank, it does not make sense. The other issue with watermakers is that they need a lot of maintenance, cleaning, flushing, etc. So, my new suggestion is:

1. Build, the pressure vessel, membrane, all connectors, valves, gauges yourself. It will cost you less than $800. Stick to size 2540 (2.5" x 40") as these are the highest volume, widest availability, lowest price membranes.

2. Buy a pressure washer (preferably with a plastic pump) for $100 and use it to produce water. A typical 1,400W pressure washer will make around 25 gph of fresh water powered by a genset or inverter.

3. Plan on replacing the pressure washer (or at least the pump) every season.

4. If you really use the water maker extensively, upgrade to a proper salt water resistant pump/motor combination to suit your power availability, e.g. if you want DC buy a DC motor, if you want AC, etc. for $1,500.

Ithaka

 

[Iggy]

One interesting factoid from that data sheet is that the product should be discarded for the first hour from startup. That is a lot of power wasted.

You would do this at the dock, yes? From what I have read from Parker, US Watermaker and more. You only do this on a new system or a change in membranes.

Between uses, its just a 5-10 minutes (system dependent) to get the salt out. At least that's what I have been reading.

 

[Frosty]

You would do this at the dock, yes?

I always thought you were supposed to be in the cleanest water available (so likely not at the dock)?

From what I have read from Parker, US Watermaker and more. You only do this on a new system or a change in membranes.

Ah.

 

[Iggy]

I always thought you were supposed to be in the cleanest water available (so likely not at the dock)?

Ah.

You are right! I am new to water makers and learning! I was told by a smarter man than me. Places like the inter coastal waters is not a good place to make water. I would be going though filters.

 

[slowgoesit]

Iggy, I looked into Parker and Spectra, as well as Village Marine, and CruisRO, as well as a few others I can't remember right now. I'm not familiar with US Watermaker, or FCI.
Most, if not all of the above used proprietary parts, adding cost to replacement parts, as well as complexity to sourcing needed parts in remote areas. Decided against all of them.
We went with a SeawaterPro, 120vac, 40 gph due to no proprietary parts, simplicity of design and installation, cost, and the fact that it was modular, so we could locate the various components where it was most convenient.
My Father in Law and I installed in in two days, not working too hard.
We've never regretted it.
Installed and put in service 28 May, 2022
Total hours on watermaker 340.65
Gallons produced: 10,002
Average water production, gph, Alaska to Florida was a little over 29 gallons/hour on a system rated at 40 gph. (We only run it middle of the acceptable pressure range, not at the max, where the 40 gph is probably measured)
Cost/gallon of water (including two spare membranes, not installed): $0.45/gallon
Repairs so far: One cracked fitting (I over tightened it on installation). Sourced in Ketchikan, AK hardware store for less than $5.00
Flow meter started seeping: Mike replaced parts free of charge (out of warranty)
I thought raw water pump had failed: Mike replaced it free of charge, only to find out that my issue was an air leak upstream of the pump. Contacted Mike to pay. His reply was: "Now you have a spare, no charge!"
We're definitely fans of SeawaterPro and Mike! Excellent customer service, fantastic product!

 

[slowgoesit]

Interesting, we did an initial run-in when new, but have never dumped overboard. Our WM is currently pickled, so we will run product overboard when putting back in service.

 

[Jklotz]

Iggy, I looked into Parker and Spectra, as well as Village Marine, and CruisRO, as well as a few others I can't remember right now. I'm not familiar with US Watermaker, or FCI.
Most, if not all of the above used proprietary parts, adding cost to replacement parts, as well as complexity to sourcing needed parts in remote areas. Decided against all of them.
We went with a SeawaterPro, 120vac, 40 gph due to no proprietary parts, simplicity of design and installation, cost, and the fact that it was modular, so we could locate the various components where it was most convenient.
My Father in Law and I installed in in two days, not working too hard.
We've never regretted it.
Installed and put in service 28 May, 2022
Total hours on watermaker 340.65
Gallons produced: 10,002
Average water production, gph, Alaska to Florida was a little over 29 gallons/hour on a system rated at 40 gph. (We only run it middle of the acceptable pressure range, not at the max, where the 40 gph is probably measured)
Cost/gallon of water (including two spare membranes, not installed): $0.45/gallon
Repairs so far: One cracked fitting (I over tightened it on installation). Sourced in Ketchikan, AK hardware store for less than $5.00
Flow meter started seeping: Mike replaced parts free of charge (out of warranty)
I thought raw water pump had failed: Mike replaced it free of charge, only to find out that my issue was an air leak upstream of the pump. Contacted Mike to pay. His reply was: "Now you have a spare, no charge!"
We're definitely fans of SeawaterPro and Mike! Excellent customer service, fantastic product!

My seawater pro system shipped yesterday. Install should start in the next week or so. So glad to hear about the great customer service, makes me feel even more confident I made the right choice.

 

[Iggy]

Iggy, I looked into Parker and Spectra, as well as Village Marine, and CruisRO, as well as a few others I can't remember right now. I'm not familiar with US Watermaker, or FCI.
Most, if not all of the above used proprietary parts, adding cost to replacement parts, as well as complexity to sourcing needed parts in remote areas. Decided against all of them.
We went with a SeawaterPro, 120vac, 40 gph due to no proprietary parts, simplicity of design and installation, cost, and the fact that it was modular, so we could locate the various components where it was most convenient.
My Father in Law and I installed in in two days, not working too hard.
We've never regretted it.
Installed and put in service 28 May, 2022
Total hours on watermaker 340.65
Gallons produced: 10,002
Average water production, gph, Alaska to Florida was a little over 29 gallons/hour on a system rated at 40 gph. (We only run it middle of the acceptable pressure range, not at the max, where the 40 gph is probably measured)
Cost/gallon of water (including two spare membranes, not installed): $0.45/gallon
Repairs so far: One cracked fitting (I over tightened it on installation). Sourced in Ketchikan, AK hardware store for less than $5.00
Flow meter started seeping: Mike replaced parts free of charge (out of warranty)
I thought raw water pump had failed: Mike replaced it free of charge, only to find out that my issue was an air leak upstream of the pump. Contacted Mike to pay. His reply was: "Now you have a spare, no charge!"
We're definitely fans of SeawaterPro and Mike! Excellent customer service, fantastic product!

Thank you for the input!

 

[Rmlow]

We installed a US water maker Clearwater series 2 years ago and are quiete happy with it. When we were looking for a new water maker, I noticed that the fittings all appeared to be higher quality than most of the others we looked at. All of the high pressure fittings were stainless swagelock brand which are very high quality. Overall all on close inspection the us water maker just generally appeared to be higher quality than the others we physically looked at.