Wanting to add windlass control to my upper helm

[whistlerxc]

My Camano Troll has a Lofrans anchor winch with traditional foot controls at the bow and controls inside the cabin at the lower helm. I would like to add another set of controls to the flybridge. I have traced as best I could the complete run of the windlass control wires (and the separate heavy duty electric current wires) and cannot find a solenoid. Maybe it is at the bottom of the chain locker- but that seems unlikely. As much as I would like to have a remote control, I assume that I would need to locate some sort of solenoid. Without access to, or simply missing a solenoid, I wonder if I can 'cheat' and simply piggy back on the connections of the control wires located in the back of the lower helm controls and simply add new wires up to a new control head on the flybridge. Although adding wires is never easy post-production, in this case it would not be all that hard as I have access to the back of the lower control switch as well as room to fish wires up to the flybridge. Any warnings or thoughts? Thanks- Jim Miller, "Sea Dove", Campbell River, BC

 

[Gdavid]

There has to be a solenoid somewhere, the foot controls are wired into the solenoid, not directly to the windlass. While it would be a good idea to continue your search and find the solenoid for the purpose of maintenance, you could tie into the control wires from the lower station. I'm a big fan of the cheap wireless winch controllers available from amazon for about $20.

Amazon.com

 

[whistlerxc]

Thank you. I am also a fan of a wireless control- but was hoping for a simple solution. I think your advice is good, so I will empty out my chain and rode out on the dock and see if indeed, the missing solenoid is there- last place that it could be and if so, I assume in some sort of closed container. If I find it, I might as well hook up to it, but it will require more wiring and wire fishing. If I do go that route, maybe I should look into a chain counter while I am at it while the chain locker is empty.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

The foot switches and lower helm switch are wired to the solenoid in parallel. You can add another switch in parallel at the upper helm the same way. Probably easiest to get the switch design and contact ratings right by using the same Lofrans switch you have at your lower helm, but there are a lot of options.

 

[whistlerxc]

Thanks. Gdavid suggested that I could simply connect control wires from my lower controls to new controls on top, thus bypassing the solenoid for the new controls. This is what I have been pondering. Do you agree that this would work?

 

[Frosty]

I do remember that at least the Lewmar 600-700-ish windlasses from the early 2000's did not come with a solenoid, but were wired directly to the switch(es) (which had a habit of burning out, big surprise).

Possibly you have one of these? If so I presume the wires leading to the back of the switch(es) would be a bit heavier than would be used with a solenoid (aka contactor). So maybe that would be a clue.

Otherwise, the typical solenoid looks something like this (this says Lewmar but other brands can look very similar).

Another clue in looking for it would be that those studs on the top of the contactor take the heavy windlass wires. So it would only make sense for them to be as in line as possible between the windlass breaker and the windlass.

Perhaps it's off to the side behind (outboard) of the main electrical panel on the Troll? There's quite a bit of space in there.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

You only have one solenoid. You can close the contacts to pull in that solenoid with as many switches as you want. They all get wired in parallel so that any switch will actuate the solenoid.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Thanks. Gdavid suggested that I could simply connect control wires from my lower controls to new controls on top, thus bypassing the solenoid for the new controls. This is what I have been pondering. Do you agree that this would work?

The new control wouldn't bypass the solenoid, but connecting the new upper helm switch to the lower helm terminals would effectively extend the circuit in parallel so that either one would actuate the solenoid. You should read up on how a solenoid switch works to allow low current rated switches to close contacts and power far higher current devices like the windlass motor. The confidence will be empowering!

 

[Frosty]

I had some old Camano Troll documents saved. A quick look shows that even on a very early wiring diagram they list a "windlass solenoid." That's on a schematic so doesn't tell you where it is physically. I'll see if I can find any more clues.

 

[Frosty]

Okay, I found a photo. This is from a 2000 Camano Troll, and as I suspected the windlass solenoid looks to be in the void area behind (outboard of) the electrical panels. You can see at the bottom of the photo that the electrical panel area is hinged down in the photo. I have circled the windlass contactor (solenoid) in red. Of course it's possible yours is different, but I'd look here first:

 

[whistlerxc]

Thanks to all that took the time to help me. Yes, I do need to look further and find that darn solenoid- Frosty has been most helpful. I have not been down at the boat recently but I will say I have looked at the wiring behind the main electrical panel many times- but usually to deal with a glitch in my 'Sea Talk" system. Next time I will look around more thoroughly and hopefully will discover the missing solenoid. My Camano is a 2007 model and has the Project 1000 model Lofrans winch, so it could be some advice from my kind commentators may not be applicable- but better than the tech people at Lofrans I will attest. The wiring to the switch at the helm is small which allows the wiring from breaker to winch motor to be stout and separate. What I have gleaned from this thread is that yes, I can go ahead and parallel wire a new upper helm switch to the existing lower helm switch-which is what I want to do as it seems the easiest solution. I will use the same thickness wire and the same model switch. And lastly, I will review my overall knowledge of how solenoids work. Again, thanks to all!

 

[Frosty]

The wiring to the switch at the helm is small which allows the wiring from breaker to winch motor to be stout and separate.

Then you should have a contactor (solenoid). Knowing Camano it stands a very good chance of being exactly where it was on the 2000 model year boat that I attached a photo of above (they seem to be very consistent). I was able to use 16AWG wire for my switch and remote base station "tang" wires. Vs. 4AWG for the main windlass wiring (top posts of contactor).

I have wired both a Lewmar and Maxwell windlass of similar size to yours and the diagrams were basically the same (as was the contactor).

I downloaded the installation/manual for what I think is your windlass, and they show that you could have either a 2-wire windlass, a 3-wire windlass, or a 4-wire windlass. (The ones I have wired have all been 2-wire windlasses.) That's the number of heavy wires coming out the bottom of the windlass.

HOWEVER, for all of the above windlasses, they show that "small wiring" is the same (in fact the contactor looks the same as both my Lewmar and Maxwell ones and the small wires work exactly the same way as both of mine). The small wires are the switch and control wires that come off of the three little blade tangs on the contactor.

If you are looking at the contactor from "the front" (as in the example photo I first posted) the middle tang is negative, the right side tang is "up," and the left side tang is "down." The Camano in the second photo also has the contactor oriented this way.

These wires can be tapped into at the source or come off one of the other switches or etc. AFAIK. They are not carrying much current. IIRC mine called for a 3a fuse on the positive wire; the diagram for yours calls for a 5a fuse on the positive wire (my windlasses were in the 700 size range so that's probably why).

So the rocker switch (typically near the helm) will get both an "up" and a "down" wire, plus a positive power wire. Things like foot switches where you have two separate things will each take either an "up" or a "down" wire and then also a positive power wire.

Another possibility for you would be to instead wire in a handheld wireless remote. Then likely you could just wire the remote base station "downstairs" and have the remote up on the flybridge (of course test that it works well like that but they seem to carry fairly well, though I have not tried one with a flybridge setup). Someone mentioned it above but you can get these remotes from Amazon for low prices (or the official windlass maker ones for like 8x that).

With the wireless remote you only wire to the base station, which, presuming the signal will carry up to the flybridge could be down below near one of your other already wired switches (or near the contactor).

Here are examples of both these types:

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

And a link to what I think may be your windlass manual. Sorry but I cannot figure out how to link to the actual pdf, but it's the 9th one down on this page:

Lofrans Library - Manuals, Specifications, 3D CAD Models, Deck Templates

Download Lofrans' installation manuals, user's manuals, technical specifications, instructions, 3D CAD models and deck templates

www.lofrans.com

 

[SteveK]

The solenoid you are looking for could be anywhere along the heavy cable from the battery. As others have said just parallel the wires from lower helm OR get the remote and tie to the wires at lower helm in addition to the leaving lower controls working.

 

[motion30]

You can purchase an inexpensive wireless winch control off of Amazon, I think I spent $25 the last time I did, They work while last several years

 

[mydacha]

Consider wireless control

 

[BobMc]

You only have one solenoid. You can close the contacts to pull in that solenoid with as many switches as you want. They all get wired in parallel so that any switch will actuate the solenoid.

Not necessarily. You could have two, one for up and one for down. When we bought our Lofrans Tigress (nane was something like that) it came with a single up/down solenoid made in Italy which soon went TU. Replaced it with two golf card solenoids and never had another problem. In any event, even if you have two they would undoubtedly be located right next to each other, and fairly close to the windlass in order to shorten the high amperage wire run. Look in the chain locker on all the bulkheads.

Agree with all the other advice about adding another station topside - it's really helpful. All you need is a single-pull, double-throw, center-off switch rated for 12V or whatever your voltage is (perhaps 24V).

FWIW, IMHO the foot switches are worthless and a PITA. I replaced them with a tethered remote so the operator (usually my wife) could walk around when running the windlass and see what was going on.

 

[seighlor]

My trawler did not have a solenoid but came with extra foot switches. Wasn't long before I had to install the new switches.

My next move was to install a solenoid with a switch at the upper helm station. It's been more than five years now and have not had to again replace the switches. And being old and usually alone, I don't believe I could get along without the helm station switch.

 

[JimKane]

Thanks. Gdavid suggested that I could simply connect control wires from my lower controls to new controls on top, thus bypassing the solenoid for the new controls. This is what I have been pondering. Do you agree that this would work?

Absolutely. Wire the switches in parallel. The relay doesn’t ask where the message came from.

 

[whistlerxc]

Thanks to everyone that took the time to answer my inquiry. I have 'heavy' wires going from a big breaker located on my lower helm dashboard directly to the windlass (and of course down to the batteries also) thus smaller wires from my helm switch towards the windlass. I can trace all the wires from switch/breaker pretty much all the way to the windlass and cannot find a solenoid nor relay and cannot find where the foot switches join in parallel with the smaller wires. However I assume that the relay/solenoid/ contractor is probably buried under all the chain and rope in some sort of protective box. When I do my annual rode maintenance I will search at the bottom of the locker for it. But from what I can gather, I can go ahead and parallel wire either a remote relay or another wire up to the flybridge and connect to a fixed switch directly (either/or) from the lower helm switch. As mentioned, there are cheap remote relay switches sold on Amazon that I can purchase and even if this does not work out with it, I am not out very much money.

 

[seighlor]

Whistlerxc,
It appears your windlass installation was constructed like mine. That is, without a solenoid. I strongly suggest you install a solenoid prior to adding the new switch. It's not a difficult task and a Google searh will provide you with plenty of wiring diagrams.

 

[Frosty]

Thanks to everyone that took the time to answer my inquiry. I have 'heavy' wires going from a big breaker located on my lower helm dashboard directly to the windlass (and of course down to the batteries also) thus smaller wires from my helm switch towards the windlass..... and cannot find a solenoid nor relay ...

Let me just double check that you are working on a Camano 31 (Sea Dove). So it's not where I showed it in the photo above? In post #10.

I'm surprised as Camano was very consistent about where they put things on the 31's. You know, not a lot of "hey, we changed stuff around this year to make the boat seem new and updated!"

Some Trolls did come with a manual windlass, and if so I suppose yours could be an owner add-on. But that was mostly earlier models.

 

[RickyD]

I just love my chain counter control in the fly bridge. I also put a remote control on my forward davit crane. Very handy. Mine lasted several years then the internal batteries died. I replaced them and they work again., Tiny 12v batteries.

 

[whistlerxc]

Whistlerxc,
It appears your windlass installation was constructed like mine. That is, without a solenoid. I strongly suggest you install a solenoid prior to adding the new switch. It's not a difficult task and a Google searh will provide you with plenty of wiring diagrams.

Thank you, I will first make sure that I do not have one, and then figure out where to install one.

 

[whistlerxc]

Let me just double check that you are working on a Camano 31 (Sea Dove). So it's not where I showed it in the photo above? In post #10.

I'm surprised as Camano was very consistent about where they put things on the 31's. You know, not a lot of "hey, we changed stuff around this year to make the boat seem new and updated!"

Some Trolls did come with a manual windlass, and if so I suppose yours could be an owner add-on. But that was mostly earlier models.

At your suggestion, I opened the electric panel and not only was there no solenoid where you had one, a very thorough search (including blind reaching) could not locate one. It is hard to completely trace the wiring from the helm switch (smaller wires) as well as the breaker (heavier wires) starting from the back of the instrument panel down through the head sidewall to floor, out to below the front bunk and out to the chain locker- but this journey can be followed. However, there are sections that cannot be checked or accessed. I doubt Camano would place a solenoid in an inacessable spot. However the wires disappear under all the chain once going through the front bulkhead, reappearing to join up with the windlass motor above all the chain. I cannot find where the foot switches join the system. I hope it may be located at the bottom of the chain locker, although that seems a funny place to put one and had better be well protected. If found, then I assume I can connect a remote relay that will be strong enough to reach the upper helm. You are correct that Camano made very few changes over the years, but it seems many Camano Trolls have originally installed Maxwells and this one is a Lofrans so perhaps things were messed around by previous owners. I have no documentation of this however. Again, thanks for the taking the time to try and help me. Cheers. Jim Miller, Campbell River, BC

 

[Frosty]

Thanks for the update. What a mystery!

 

[jclays]

There has to be a solenoid somewhere, the foot controls are wired into the solenoid, not directly to the windlass. While it would be a good idea to continue your search and find the solenoid for the purpose of maintenance, you could tie into the control wires from the lower station. I'm a big fan of the cheap wireless winch controllers available from amazon for about $20.

Amazon.com

I too use a 20 dollar wireless winch controller from Amazon. Works great,